US Navy News and updates

[StingrayOZ]

Where is the USS Bill Clinton? I think he would be the next Democrat to get a ship (but not for a while)..

Can't see them doing a Nixon. Not yet anyway.

Didn't Jimmy Carter make it a big point he thought being named on a sub was much better than a carrier. All submariners view surface ships as targets so why would he want his name on a target?

 

[Belesari]

I preffer names like Enterprise, Saratoga, Lexington, Hornet, etc.....

Don't forget CVN-79, which has already been announced will be USS JOHN F. KENNEDY. So there's one. And many of the other names were at least logically connected to something else-it makes sense to name a submarine after Jimmy Carter. Likewise, it makes sense to name CVNs after Ford and George. H. W. Bush since both have service connections to carriers.

Without turning this into a political thread, the current count for CVN (built and/or named) is:

Democrats: 4 (JFK, Truman, John C. Stennis, Carl Vinson)
Republicans: 6 (Ike, Lincoln, Ford, George H. W. Bush, Reagan, Roosevelt).
Independents: 1 (George Washington, and Ike could have been a Democrat if he'd wanted to. You can argue that he should be in this list).

When you remember that we had CVs named after FDR and JFK when we started building the NIMITZ-class (and we still have a DDG named after FDR and his wife), the list is actually somewhat even.

It's hard to find a lot of truly great Democratic presidents (in terms of connection to the military/military service) unless you want to go out of the 20th century. I'm guessing we'll probably start getting 41 for Freedom names fairly quickly (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe), and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[swerve]

Where is the USS Bill Clinton? I think he would be the next Democrat to get a ship (but not for a while)..

Can't see them doing a Nixon. Not yet anyway.

Didn't Jimmy Carter make it a big point he thought being named on a sub was much better than a carrier. All submariners view surface ships as targets so why would he want his name on a target?

Carter was a submariner. Of course he preferred having a submarine named after him.

I don't like naming warships after politicians, but if you're going to, at least limit it to the national leader.

 

[AegisFC]

Having spoken with a few guys on the DDG-1000 project I would be very surprised if more aren't ordered and new ships built using an evolved DDG-1000 platform to fill other roles i.e. CG. Basically the project has been pretty much free from technical problems and delays with the cost escalation being due to development costs being amortised over three instead of the originally planned thirty two hulls.

There were the problems with SPY-4 but considering the ship is supposed to be retrofitted with AMDR that isn't as big of a deal as some sources want to make it.

I understand that there are expected to be some issues with mating the composite superstructure with the steel hull but that said the LPD-17 mast design has provided some experience with large composite structures.

I'd like to see how the composite and balsa super structure holds up for a few years and deployments before ordering any more. It may be the greatest thing ever or it could be a maitenance nightmare.

Speaking of, Ingalls has published a photo of the super structure.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WQIEmCS3CaM/UHYI7t1bIxI/AAAAAAAAAE4/64R6IQ_S4Kk/s1600/DDG1000.jpg

And here is the hull.
Introducing the USS Zumwalt, the Stealth Destroyer | Photo Gallery | Smithsonian.com

 

[Belesari]

Yea aluminum superstructures were supposed to be the great thing. Now, not so much. Cracks big enough to fit your hand through. There are always problems using different materials like that. Aluminum just doesnt flex enough like good steel.

Im also worried about the elements and how the new technology is going to work. There is no room to modify the design of the zumwalts if the tech isnt as good as proposed and more men are needed.

Then there is the reliance on the computer systems to keep the ship from submarining in bad weather...arg

There were the problems with SPY-4 but considering the ship is supposed to be retrofitted with AMDR that isn't as big of a deal as some sources want to make it.



I'd like to see how the composite and balsa super structure holds up for a few years and deployments before ordering any more. It may be the greatest thing ever or it could be a maitenance nightmare.

Speaking of, Ingalls has published a photo of the super structure.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WQIEmCS3CaM/UHYI7t1bIxI/AAAAAAAAAE4/64R6IQ_S4Kk/s1600/DDG1000.jpg

And here is the hull.
Introducing the USS Zumwalt, the Stealth Destroyer | Photo Gallery | Smithsonian.com

 

[fretburner]

Speaking of, Ingalls has published a photo of the super structure.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WQIEmCS3CaM/UHYI7t1bIxI/AAAAAAAAAE4/64R6IQ_S4Kk/s1600/DDG1000.jpg

And here is the hull.
Introducing the USS Zumwalt, the Stealth Destroyer | Photo Gallery | Smithsonian.com

That superstructure just looks badass! Thanks for sharing!

I'm one of those who's seriously hoping that if the first 3 Zumwalts prove their worth, they should definitely buy more. What's the latest on the AGS though? And is there a reason why you want only 80 cells vs the Burke's 96?

 

[AegisFC]

The Mk-57 VLS used on the DDG-1000 has a bigger cell then the MK-41 the Burkes use. This will allow for bigger missiles in the future and more flexibility, however it takes up more space for the same amount of missiles. Also the USN doesn't exactly have a shortage of VLS cells.

 

[Belesari]

That superstructure just looks badass! Thanks for sharing!

I'm one of those who's seriously hoping that if the first 3 Zumwalts prove their worth, they should definitely buy more. What's the latest on the AGS though? And is there a reason why you want only 80 cells vs the Burke's 96?

And its made of balsa wood Giant great heapping peices the size of houses....that i dont feel to comfortable about.

 

[AegisFC]

The balsa is sandwiched betwen layers of carbon fiber. I've been reading about it and the selection of balsa makes a lot of sense and isn't as flamable as you make it out to be.
A similar method has been used for the mast of the LPD-17's and that seems to be one of the few things working with no problems on those ships. :

DDG-1000 Zumwalt: Stealth warship : CompositesWorld

Design Solution:
Use primarily flat composite sandwich panels to simplify tooling, and core them with balsa, which burns more slowly than foam and better insulates the opposite sandwich skin from heat, optimizing fire safety.

The DDG-1000 project’s “gold team” — NGSB and a variety of subcontractors — evaluated a multitude of material combinations, generating more than 6,000 individual test articles over a period of 10 years. Ultimately, the team settled on a sandwich construction, featuring balsa supplied by Alcan Baltek Corp. (Northvale, N.J.) between skins made from Toray T700 12K FOE carbon fiber, supplied by Toray Carbon Fiber America Inc. (Flower Mound, Texas), and 510A vinyl ester resin from Ashland Inc. (Dublin, Ohio).

Joe Pantalone, Alcan Baltek’s market manager, reports that Navy engineers selected balsa core because they learned early in their evaluation of composite materials that “the mechanical properties of balsa as a core material compared to its cost are significantly better than any other material.” Pantalone likens balsa, with its cellular structure of cellulose fiber in a lignin matrix, to the fiber/resin makeup of a composite. He reports that Navy tests showed that a balsa-core sandwich contained fire spread better than those cored with foam or honeycomb. “Balsa doesn’t burn very well at all,” says Pantalone. “Rather, it chars slowly. So it does a better job of insulating the opposite-side skin, unlike foam, which softens and transfers heat more readily.” Unlike honeycomb core, wood cells are terminal or closed in the thickness direction, he adds, so balsa requires no intermediate barrier material to prevent ingress of resin during infusion, keeping cost down and ensuring that the balsa core retains its low weight.

Here is another picture of the super structure.

Everything that is red is steel, so the bridge and the helo deck are steel. The helo hangar and the rest (which takes the place of a traditional mast) is the composite structure.

 

[Belesari]

The balsa is sandwiched betwen layers of carbon fiber. I've been reading about it and the selection of balsa makes a lot of sense and isn't as flamable as you make it out to be.
A similar method has been used for the mast of the LPD-17's and that seems to be one of the few things working with no problems on those ships. :

DDG-1000 Zumwalt: Stealth warship : CompositesWorld



Here is another picture of the super structure.

Everything that is red is steel, so the bridge and the helo deck are steel. The helo hangar and the rest (which takes the place of a traditional mast) is the composite structure.

Not talking about fire. Balsa doesnt do sea and water well it tends to rot which means a trip to the yard because the things are in massive sections.

 

[Belesari]

I really don't have an opinion of the concept, there isn't much public informaiton on it.
Using the same engineering plant and hull form will save money even if the super structure is completely different and the Mk-57 is a much bigger cell than the Mk-41 VLS.

Actucally from what i've heard the thing is supposed to have the combat systems of a frigate. So....probably not all that much different.

 

[StobieWan]

I think the main issue with balsa in ships has been in poorly installed laminate sections forming sail boat hulls - there are thirty year old sail boats out there that have spent most of their working lives in the water, which are still seaworthy.

The sections being used in the DDG1000 are sited much higher, well above the water line, are hopefully carefully packaged, with good drainage for any water hitting them.

As AegisFC says, jury is out, we'll see how they work in use, theoretically, if properly installed, they should last the life of the ship. If not, they'll be gooey compost in six months.

 

[fretburner]

The Mk-57 VLS used on the DDG-1000 has a bigger cell then the MK-41 the Burkes use. This will allow for bigger missiles in the future and more flexibility, however it takes up more space for the same amount of missiles. Also the USN doesn't exactly have a shortage of VLS cells.

Come to think of it, these Zumwalts are not going to be going to war alone right? So I guess 80 cells is adequate.

Not talking about fire. Balsa doesnt do sea and water well it tends to rot which means a trip to the yard because the things are in massive sections.

Haven't Balsa been used for boats and surf boards for a long time? And even then, I'm sure you can treat it in some form so it won't rot when it's exposed to saltwater.

What is probably more worrisome is how much damage it can take. I know even steel wouldn't stand much chance with modern anti-ship missiles, but balsa sandwiched with carbon fiber seemed to be very vulnerable even to medium caliber guns.

Actucally from what i've heard the thing is supposed to have the combat systems of a frigate. So....probably not all that much different.

So the entire top would look like a cruiser? That's disappointing. I was hoping it would be some goofy looking ship with just rows and rows of VLS

 

[the concerned]

how long before one of the new class of cv's will be called enterprise,its sacred like ark royal is to us brits.just asking when is the US looking at fielding a new class of ssgn's

 

[hauritz]

how long before one of the new class of cv's will be called enterprise,its sacred like ark royal is to us brits.just asking when is the US looking at fielding a new class of ssgn's

Perhaps when they run out of president names ... although they might draw the line at USS Nixon.

 

[hauritz]

Actually the favoured name for CVN 80 is Enterprise.

 

[StobieWan]

how long before one of the new class of cv's will be called enterprise,its sacred like ark royal is to us brits.just asking when is the US looking at fielding a new class of ssgn's

I'd guess that as soon as the current Big E is decomm'd, one of the Fords *must* be down to be dubbed as such ? I'd love it if they dug up some of the good old names for the rest, bring back Saratoga, Hornet etc.


SSGN's - they'll be multi-role SSBN's I believe - the common missile compartment on the replacement for the Ohio is larger, alllowing for bigger ICBM's and also other types of launcher. There won't be a class of dedicated SSGN's again however - the Ohio's were recycled from the SSBN fleet after their nuclear role was reduced by START, leaving the USN with several nuclear missile boats which had recently been refuelled and were good for another decade or so of life.
Their replacements will be nuclear missile boats doing other jobs I suspect.

 

[Twain]

BUT there in lies the problem. The LCS was originaly intended to BE corvettes. Corvettes have one enormous draw back RANGE. For a squadron of LCS to be deployed anywhere they would have to be ferried there. Not only that once there they would be trapped.

So they got bigger......and it began.

Basiclly whether they can admit it or not the US wanted something Frigate like without the cost and modular. It all got screwed up it was NEW and built on the fly and transformational!!!!!!!

And then the guys who build the boats kept looking at the Navy guys with WTH expressions as the boats kept being changed every few days durring construction.

Just wanted to briefly revisit this. My understanding is that now the navy is trying to figure out a way to get another knot or two out of the diesel engines so that the LCS can be used for escort duties now. This, after they said the navy doesn't need frigates for escort duties. :hitwall The ship they are going to end up with is only going to vaguely resemble the original concept for this ship.

 

[colay]

The Navy is getting what it asked for. The pundits look,at it from their own skewed perspective. Never shall the twain meet.

Return Fire on the Navy’s Littoral Combat Ship | U.S. | TIME.com

 

[ASSAIL]

I think the main issue with balsa in ships has been in poorly installed laminate sections forming sail boat hulls - there are thirty year old sail boats out there that have spent most of their working lives in the water, which are still seaworthy.

The sections being used in the DDG1000 are sited much higher, well above the water line, are hopefully carefully packaged, with good drainage for any water hitting them.

As AegisFC says, jury is out, we'll see how they work in use, theoretically, if properly installed, they should last the life of the ship. If not, they'll be gooey compost in six months.

I have direct experience in balsa cored FRP small working ships (200 - 500 tonnes). The three vessels are now 30 to 40 years old and the structure is as good as day one. If the outer glass is damaged and water ingresses there can be problems but the fix is dead easy.

In most cases the balsa is not laid flat, the grain/core is all end grain and immensly strong.