Official Chengdu J-20 Discussion Thread

[gf0012-aust]

Somehow you don't seem to get the picture that as a private board it sets the rules by which it expects everyone to play by.

You had 3 days to work it out. You were given the chance to understand the direction given

Seeing that you don't want to be here lets make it permanent.

You would have been quite welcome to set up a thread on Pugachev or airshow acrobatics but elected not to do so.

Your choice

 

[NICO]

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Nice pic of vortex generated by the inlet and not the canards as I first thought.

 

[jack412]

It does look good doesnt it, I think it depends how much moisture is in the air, there will be even better pics of the j-20 to come
I saw Pinck put up a pic of a fa-18 there, here is a link to some more pics
Image Galleries 2010 - Department of Defence

 

[NICO]

Google Translate

Couple of new pics released of weapons bay doors open, on the ground. They seem quite large, especially the side one. Seems you should be able to put something bigger than a Sidewinder in there a la F22. I am willing to consider that the angle and distance of these pictures probably distort real size.

 

[legoboy]

Saw some new footage today and photos on another website. Very good quality for you analysts out there.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBSYxKDWq6s&feature=player_embedded"]J20于2011å¹´11月12æ—¥å†æ¬¡å‡ç©ºæµ‹è¯•ï¼ˆHD1080p） - YouTube[/nomedia]

That YouTube uploader also seems to have the J-10 and the JF-17 taking off too. Now something tells me that the Chinese Air force are doing test flights in the local park or they simply don't care about people finding out.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Saw some new footage today and photos on another website. Very good quality for you analysts out there.

Well the J-20 is back to flying after a New Years hiatus, lots of new info, and they seem to be flying a little more aggressive program, does any one know if they are still planning on vektored thrust powerplants?

 

[18zulu]

Google Translate

Couple of new pics released of weapons bay doors open, on the ground. They seem quite large, especially the side one. Seems you should be able to put something bigger than a Sidewinder in there a la F22. I am willing to consider that the angle and distance of these pictures probably distort real size.

The F-22 carries much more than sidewinders internally. But I would love to see the J-20 Radar Cross section numbers jump everytime you crank on those canards.

 

[the concerned]

hi i'm new to this conversation but i think the j-20 is no suprise haven't the chinese had su-27's in service for over 20yrs now and are in need of replacement. The chinese upgrade would only be a mid life update and couldn't be relied upon to be the backbown of chinese air defence. Plus the latest aircaft coming out of rusia wouldn't be an option as india is also purchasing them so the only choice was develop there own.i personaly think that this is probably russia's last major defence ticket as both india and china will be in a position to make their own military hardware in the future

 

[Air Force Brat]

The F-22 carries much more than sidewinders internally. But I would love to see the J-20 Radar Cross section numbers jump everytime you crank on those canards.

There are some who seem to believe one of J-20s primary missions will be to take out awacs and aerial refueling capabilities BVR. That would seem to be confirmed by your observation as well as the apparently large internal fuel capacity of the J-20. I would also concur that the canards are not conducive to LO ops, but they might feel that is a risk worth taking, since they are counting on a reduced frontal crossection that could be minimized if control deflections are kept to a minimum prior to fighter engagements. It does appear to be a highly capable aircraft that will likely be far more agile than the F-35, but its OVT nozzles are in question. Its side and rear LO seem to be less of a priority?

 

[Comrade69]

hi i'm new to this conversation but i think the j-20 is no suprise haven't the chinese had su-27's in service for over 20yrs now and are in need of replacement. The chinese upgrade would only be a mid life update and couldn't be relied upon to be the backbown of chinese air defence. Plus the latest aircaft coming out of rusia wouldn't be an option as india is also purchasing them so the only choice was develop there own.i personaly think that this is probably russia's last major defence ticket as both india and china will be in a position to make their own military hardware in the future

Well the chinese also have the J-10 which is 100% theirs...and from what I read the J-10B is a real legit 4.5 gen air craft which will also be exported to Pakistan.


As far as India and China developing their own tech, its been the same for the past 20 years and will probably be the same for another 20

India exports from all kinds of nations(makes their air force very diverse)
and China takes Russian planes and makes their own, with a combination of some of their own

 

[NICO]

The F-22 carries much more than sidewinders internally. But I would love to see the J-20 Radar Cross section numbers jump everytime you crank on those canards.

The small bays next to the inlets only carry Sidewinders on the F22. The big internal bay can carry more weapons.

1000 Pictures - Free Desktop Wallpaper

On the Chinese J20, it appears that the side bays are larger and maybe deeper than on the F22, it could be just the way/angle the picture is taken though. I saw a better picture of the side bays, I will try to find it again.

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_5295707_1.html

 

[NICO]

There are some who seem to believe one of J-20s primary missions will be to take out awacs and aerial refueling capabilities BVR. That would seem to be confirmed by your observation as well as the apparently large internal fuel capacity of the J-20. I would also concur that the canards are not conducive to LO ops, but they might feel that is a risk worth taking, since they are counting on a reduced frontal crossection that could be minimized if control deflections are kept to a minimum prior to fighter engagements. It does appear to be a highly capable aircraft that will likely be far more agile than the F-35, but its OVT nozzles are in question. Its side and rear LO seem to be less of a priority?

Everybody comments on the canards and their lack of LO, well, you have to figure that the Chinese designers thought about that.

Second thought, maybe they use the canards just for certain flight regimes, for extra maneuverability, takeoff/landing,etc, why can't they "lock" them in place at a higher Mach/altitude?

It's not like you are going to need them to tangle with an AWAC?

 

[Feanor]

hi i'm new to this conversation but i think the j-20 is no suprise haven't the chinese had su-27's in service for over 20yrs now and are in need of replacement. The chinese upgrade would only be a mid life update and couldn't be relied upon to be the backbown of chinese air defence. Plus the latest aircaft coming out of rusia wouldn't be an option as india is also purchasing them so the only choice was develop there own.i personaly think that this is probably russia's last major defence ticket as both india and china will be in a position to make their own military hardware in the future

The Su-27 is nowhere near getting replaced. The Chinese still fly MiG-21 derivatives.

 

[jack412]

Well the chinese also have the J-10 which is 100% theirs...and from what I read the J-10B is a real legit 4.5 gen air craft which will also be exported to Pakistan.

[cough] Israeli [cough]




http://atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html

 

[Comrade69]

[cough] Israeli [cough]




Asia Times

Oh wow I had no idea. Not trying to insult but are all Chinese planes copies?


Now im really starting to wonder if the J-20 is founded on the F-117 tech..

 

[Air Force Brat]

Everybody comments on the canards and their lack of LO, well, you have to figure that the Chinese designers thought about that.

Second thought, maybe they use the canards just for certain flight regimes, for extra maneuverability, takeoff/landing,etc, why can't they "lock" them in place at a higher Mach/altitude?

It's not like you are going to need them to tangle with an AWAC?

That really was my point Nico, and yes they are most definetly for extreme manueverability, and they seem quite effective, so effective that some have questioned the need for OVT. I suppose we will see and comrade, the J-20 has no real similarity to the Wobblin Goblin other than possibly radar absorbant material? It shares the same basic planform as the mig 1.42-1.44, but the canards are not close coupled to the main wing but decoupled, you will notice in all high AOA flight regimes they are angled down to prevent overpitching. The chinese seem to have taken several design elements and applied some of their own tweaks and innovations to make the J-20 a very agile yet stable aircraft, the flight control system seems to function quite well, but once the tangle is on then they will definetly compromise your LO, as they are moveable through a very broad range in order to provide the manueverability that we have observed. Carry On Gentlemen.

 

[Twinblade]

The Su-27 is nowhere near getting replaced. The Chinese still fly MiG-21 derivatives.

I thought all J-7 were sent into storage as of last year ?

PS: There were also pictures of some of the oldest Su-27 in Chinese service being sent to scrap yard by road because they reached the end of their airframe life and will most likely be replaced by J-11B ?

 

[Feanor]

I thought all J-7 were sent into storage as of last year ?

PS: There were also pictures of some of the oldest Su-27 in Chinese service being sent to scrap yard by road because they reached the end of their airframe life and will most likely be replaced by J-11B ?

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this. Do you have more info?

EDIT: That would be really strange. The first Chinese Flanker deliveries started in 1992... so you're saying they're being scrapped after 19 years due to end of airframe life?

 

[T.C.P]

I thought all J-7 were sent into storage as of last year ?

PS: There were also pictures of some of the oldest Su-27 in Chinese service being sent to scrap yard by road because they reached the end of their airframe life and will most likely be replaced by J-11B ?

Well I heard rumours that the Chinese could keep on flying a whole new derivative of the F-7, the F-7BGI.

This mostly being developed for Bangladesh, but ti is proof that the F-7 lines are open. The F-7BGI has a totally different nose and a lot more new modifications and upgrades to its avionics and design.

 

[the concerned]

Airforces have to think long term these days within the next 10 yrs maybe even 5yrs an upgraded su-27 is not going to be good enough to defend your airspace and the j-10 is being deployed more like the f-16 which is air to ground first air defence second