MiG-29M/M2 and Mig-31E for Syria

[Feanor]

There were rumors and speculation earlier that Syria had purchased MiG-29M/M2 fighters, and MiG-31E fighters. Originally both were regarded as unlikely purchases, however with time it seems that both turned out to be more or less true. There was a scandal about a year ago with bribes over the MiG-31 airframes (taken from storage at Sokol factory) meant for Syria.

Now we have confirmation from RSK MiG that they are indeed in the process of fulfilling the MiG-29M/M2 (which one it is, is not clear) contract for Syria. The contract is for 24 airframes, with the first to be completed by the end of this year.

bmpd - Ð¡Ð¸Ñ‚ÑƒÐ°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð¸Ð·Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ñтвом на моÑковÑком преÐприÑтии "Ð*СК "МИГ"

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

There were rumors and speculation earlier that Syria had purchased MiG-29M/M2 fighters, and MiG-31E fighters. Originally both were regarded as unlikely purchases, however with time it seems that both turned out to be more or less true. There was a scandal about a year ago with bribes over the MiG-31 airframes (taken from storage at Sokol factory) meant for Syria.

Now we have confirmation from RSK MiG that they are indeed in the process of fulfilling the MiG-29M/M2 (which one it is, is not clear) contract for Syria. The contract is for 24 airframes, with the first to be completed by the end of this year.

bmpd - Ð¡Ð¸Ñ‚ÑƒÐ°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð¸Ð·Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ñтвом на моÑковÑком предприÑтии "Ð*СК "МИГ"

Would this be the first confirmed order for operational MiG-29M airframes (as opposed to SMT's), including domestic sales? I wonder why Damascus didnt go down the flanker rout? Seems like allot more capability for a very reasonable price.

 

[ADMk2]

Would this be the first confirmed order for operational MiG-29M airframes (as opposed to SMT's), including domestic sales? I wonder why Damascus didnt go down the flanker rout? Seems like allot more capability for a very reasonable price.

Cost to acquire and operate? We've all been told many times how capable Flaners allegedly are, but we don't hear much on how much that capability costs in reality to operate...

 

[Feanor]

Would this be the first confirmed order for operational MiG-29M airframes (as opposed to SMT's), including domestic sales? I wonder why Damascus didnt go down the flanker rout? Seems like allot more capability for a very reasonable price.

Yes this is the first for the Mig-29M variant, but the MiG-29K sold to India, and soon to the AVMF, are also built on the MiG-29M variant the same way the SMT is built on the S variant. The total production run for the second generation Fulcrum designs is right now to be ~ 100 airframes.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Cost to acquire and operate? We've all been told many times how capable Flaners allegedly are, but we don't hear much on how much that capability costs in reality to operate...

Well I'm not going down the "super flanker' rout but just in terms of airframe performance, radar size, payload, range, kinematics, and even weapons fit (AFAIK) the Flanker family is superior to the MiG 29. I don't see how operating costs could be prohibitive compared to the Fulcrum, remember this isn't an east vs west contest. In any case they weren't worried about operating costs with the MiG 31.

As for procurement cost, that seems to be the only possible contender. I think its the only reasons Flankers have sold so well (comparatively) compared to the Fulcrum; you get a F-15 class aircraft for the price of an F-16. IIRC the current model Flankers are going for ~$60m, which just isn't a screaming deal anymore. MiG-29M/M2 always struck me as an attractive option for the export market, I just never understood why it did so poorly when other ex-Soviet/Russian systems have done pretty well.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Yes this is the first for the Mig-29M variant, but the MiG-29K sold to India, and soon to the AVMF, are also built on the MiG-29M variant the same way the SMT is built on the S variant. The total production run for the second generation Fulcrum designs is right now to be ~ 100 airframes.

Ah I did neglect the MiG-29K. Looks like a good year or two for Fulcrum fans so far.

 

[T.C.P]

What is the unit price of the Mig-29M/M2? if they are being produced now and being sold at a price near to the price of an SMT then all future sales will be Mig-29M/M2s.

 

[Feanor]

IIRC the current model Flankers are going for ~$60m, which just isn't a screaming deal anymore.

Compared to what? A block 60 F-16? Not to mention price is only half of the attractivness. The other is the lack of politics surrounding the sales. Or, in other words, they will sell to those that can't buy F-15s for political reasons. Also countries that for political reasons refuse to buy the F-15. So obviously Venezuela can't buy American fighter jets, neither can Vietnam, neither could China. India wasn't willing to back in 1999 when they started the MKI program.

MiG-29M/M2 always struck me as an attractive option for the export market, I just never understood why it did so poorly when other ex-Soviet/Russian systems have done pretty well.

It did so poorly because it didn't exist until ~2008. That's when the second generation Fulcrum airframes started rolling out (iirc the MiG-29K). Before then it was only SMT. Remember the scandal with Algerian SMTs? They didn't buy Ms or M2s because the delivery schedules were absolutely speculative, and the aircraft hadn't completed trials. What's interesting is how little and how late the Syrians are purchasing. They're purchasing late 4th gens at a time when Israel is looking to pick up F-35s. The numbers are also fairly small. This may be the first of many purchases, but it may also be a one-off buy.

 

[tphuang]

Yes this is the first for the Mig-29M variant, but the MiG-29K sold to India, and soon to the AVMF, are also built on the MiG-29M variant the same way the SMT is built on the S variant. The total production run for the second generation Fulcrum designs is right now to be ~ 100 airframes.

I'm pretty uninformed on Mig-29 variants. Is Mig-29M2 variant supposed to be the Mig-35 that was advertised in MRCA contest? And is Mig-29M the same as SMT?

 

[Knjaz]

Mig-29 is understandable, but Mig-31? Why would Syrians ever need them? As Mini-AWACS?

 

[StobieWan]

Mig-29 is understandable, but Mig-31? Why would Syrians ever need them? As Mini-AWACS?

Well, the order seems to be on hold for the 31's at least, as of 2009 - the usual reasons for ordering Mig 25 or 31's were either reconnaissance or historically to interfere with recon overflights.

Ian

 

[T.C.P]

I'm pretty uninformed on Mig-29 variants. Is Mig-29M2 variant supposed to be the Mig-35 that was advertised in MRCA contest? And is Mig-29M the same as SMT?

The mig-35 is a brand new air craft.

As far as my understanding goes-The mig-29M is the second generation fulcrum basically a land based version of the Mig-29K.
The mig-29SMT is the upgraded version of the Mig-29S the first generation fulcrum.

 

[destructivetouch]

Developments to get mig-29m

Google ترجمة

 

[GelbOne]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, nice to meet you all!



well, with the current government crackdown in Syria, I doubt any such deal is going anywhere. It's not just from the Syrian gov't side.

what country would risk giving credit to a country which is in the midst of violent, bloody domestic turmoil?

 

[Feanor]

I'm pretty uninformed on Mig-29 variants. Is Mig-29M2 variant supposed to be the Mig-35 that was advertised in MRCA contest? And is Mig-29M the same as SMT?

The MiG-29M is the baseline design from which the MiG-29K was developed, and the MiG-29M2, and the MiG-35.

what country would risk giving credit to a country which is in the midst of violent, bloody domestic turmoil?

As I understand it, the Syrians are paying up front for the fighters, at delivery. There is no credit scheme.

 

[GelbOne]

they can afford that?

 

[Feanor]

they can afford that?

It would be interesting to see how much they're paying, and what the contract includes, but apparently the answer is yes.

 

[GelbOne]

It would be interesting to see how much they're paying, and what the contract includes, but apparently the answer is yes.

wow. then the Rus are really ready to sell to just about anybody.

 

[T.C.P]

wow. then the Rus are really ready to sell to just about anybody.

Syria isn't just any body they have been Russian customers for decades.

Syria poses no threat to Russia and is ready to pay cash, so I think Russia is perfectly reasonable to sell weapons to a paying customer.

Plus its not like the Syrians can use the Mig-29s against protesters.

 

[GelbOne]

Syria isn't just any body they have been Russian customers for decades.

Syria poses no threat to Russia and is ready to pay cash, so I think Russia is perfectly reasonable to sell weapons to a paying customer.

Plus its not like the Syrians can use the Mig-29s against protesters.

yeah but didn't a lot of countries (including Rus) levy the threat of sanctions against Syria after the massacres of protesters and all?

also, the '29 can carry bombs and unguided rocket launchers, so it could be used against opposition if a Libyan-style civil war erupts...