Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The trouble with Canberra is far too many pollies (apart from the uni politics tragics) seem to be lawyers, teachers and failed small business owners, not many competent technical types, let alone project managers to be seen.
Mate that's what the public service is for. We don't elect defence people to defence or economists to treasury, we never have and we never will. Most of the time ministers act on the advice of professionals, as long as its politically viable that is.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Mate that's what the public service is for. We don't elect defence people to defence or economists to treasury, we never have and we never will. Most of the time ministers act on the advice of professionals, as long as its politically viable that is.
There is a school of thought that managers don't need to know what their subordinates do, they just need to manage. Having worked for both technically orientated and technically illiterate managers I will take the techos every time. There are far too many people out there who really don't have a clue, who believe that they are some how qualified to tell everyone else what to do and how to do it.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I've worked for technically oriented managers who wanted to micromanage technical aspects of projects, despite there being technically better people doing those tasks. I've also worked for technically illiterate managers whose attitude to technical decisions was to leave them to the techies, & get on with providing an environment in which work could be done effectively. I'd take the latter any time.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
There is a school of thought that managers don't need to know what their subordinates do, they just need to manage. Having worked for both technically orientated and technically illiterate managers I will take the techos every time. There are far too many people out there who really don't have a clue, who believe that they are some how qualified to tell everyone else what to do and how to do it.
But polies aren't supposed to be managers in the traditional sense, heads of departments are. A politician is essentially a representative of the people who is responsible for ensuring the executive acts in the public interest. Obviously that makes them responsible for any actions taken by their department, but the very reason why Swan isn't an economist and why Smith isn't a security and international relations major is because they shouldn't be acting as a 'manager'. They don't need to have extensive personal knowledge in their area of responsibility, that's what professional public servants are for, but they do need to be able to make a judgement on both the public interest and value for money.

swerve said:
I've worked for technically oriented managers who wanted to micromanage technical aspects of projects, despite there being technically better people doing those tasks. I've also worked for technically illiterate managers whose attitude to technical decisions was to leave them to the techies, & get on with providing an environment in which work could be done effectively. I'd take the latter any time.
Apply that to a parliamentary democracy when you have new management potentially every four years. Do you really want someone who once studied economics in the Chicago school during the late 1980's running the treasury, getting their own 'ideas' and such, and then four years later you get a new one who got their economics degree under a neo-Keynesian in the late 90's? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
They don't need to have extensive personal knowledge in their area of responsibility, that's what professional public servants are for, but they do need to be able to make a judgement on both the public interest and value for money.
You're assuming that they take heed and listen to considered, apolitical and advice given in the national interest.

thats a huge call.

I can think of any numbers of politicians I worked for when doing Ministerial Support who ignored advice or took advice from young, politically biased (as opposed to national focussed) ministerial staffers (who are not public servants) who had academic qualifications, but almost zero life experience.

subs have become a punching ball due to the above and I'd argue irreperably damaged forever in the eyes of the australian public.

no more comment from me as I can feel the anger rising already.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I'm looking for the 'Like' button.....

Today's SMH has an article intimating that the AUD could get to USD1.50.
But that could well mean that the US economy is in deep doo doo.
I'm curious as to how this would affect Oz defence spending. F-18F(G), MH-60R, CH-47F, (CH-53K!!) all look more affordable.

More dollar dazzle to come | Michael West

cheers
rb
Don't get too excited as the government has a multi billion dollar hole to fill for its cabon compensation package and to try to get to surplus. Money is in short supply.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
You're assuming that they take heed and listen to considered, apolitical and advice given in the national interest.

thats a huge call.
No, just stating how the system is intended to work. Not saying that individual politicians will always act in the manner intended, far from it.

I can think of any numbers of politicians I worked for when doing Ministerial Support who ignored advice or took advice from young, politically biased (as opposed to national focussed) ministerial staffers (who are not public servants) who had academic qualifications, but almost zero life experience.

subs have become a punching ball due to the above and I'd argue irreperably damaged forever in the eyes of the australian public.

no more comment from me as I can feel the anger rising already.
I don't doubt it. Politicians are, after all, political animals and making a decision which might not be best for the nation but is advantageous is hardly unimaginable. It wouldn't surprise me if people able to play the patronage game would be able to have the most influence with a minister. After hearing about the machinations behind party room doors, that sort of thing seems to be commonplace. Smith strikes me as genuine and reasonably competent though, I think I like him more than Fitzgibon and Faulkner.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
GF to be fair.

No politican (atleast on labours side, I would argue all sides) is rumored to be as capable as Faulkner (which is why they put him in defence after Fitzgibbons mess). They are lucky to have him, I think he has a lot of credability despite being a lefty left in a righty world.

Smith may be one of the ALP leaders in the future. Given how quickly they tend to shuffle chairs on ships these days (sinking or otherwise) it may not take too long.

Defence ministers have interesting life after parliment. Beasley is ambassador to the US, Nelson is ambassador to EU and NATO. It seems that defence ministers cover the whole spectrum. They don't die either, they just move off into military ambassadorships.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Smith may be one of the ALP leaders in the future. Given how quickly they tend to shuffle chairs on ships these days (sinking or otherwise) it may not take too long.
:start
must control myself from making further comment
must control myself from making further comment
must control myself from making further comment
:goto start
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
People like him because he looks more up-to-date than Faulkner and if you look like your working then you must be.
Fitzgibbon on the other hand couldn't control the staff in his own office, who turned on him which fed his paranoia even more so.
People like Faulkner are dying out. Who wants hassle free, competent people working for them, they could take my job. Faulkners glasses are the perfect disguise, he won't ever be PM (he doesn't want to, even tho he is competent enough) because people think hes old fashioned and nerdy. Faulkner however probably keeps an eye on things and does what he can.

Everyone is vying for the power chair, and the boat could rock at anytime. Keeping Rudd around and in powerful positions keeps Smith controlled. Rudd apparently gave smith headaches (as Rudd would) when Rudd was PM and Smith was foreign minister. Make your enemies close, and keep your enemies enemies closer.
 

Kirkzzy

New Member
Faulkners glasses are the perfect disguise, he won't ever be PM (he doesn't want to, even tho he is competent enough) because people think hes old fashioned and nerdy. Faulkner however probably keeps an eye on things and does what he can.
Tanner touched on this in his recent book. Politicians are doing all kinds of things now to appeal to the general populace. And it is getting a bit ridiculous that these little things can get in the way of real politics and real decision making. For crying out loud our PM dyed her hair to be a "ranga" for popularity. Politicians like this that are doing these stunts for popularity (unlike ones like Faulkner who isn't in it for personal gain) are the reason why this country is in such a bad political stuff up at the moment.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Let's get back onto the RAAF topic guys, the politics are for other sites...

AD
 

rand0m

Member
Let's get back onto the RAAF topic guys, the politics are for other sites...

AD
In light ADMk2's comments, is anyone able to answer my above question in regards to what UAV Australia is currently operating/leasing & if/what we are looking at going forward?

Whilst not entirely relating to the RAAF, I notice we've bought 18 AAI RQ-7 Shadow. What other aircraft do we own/, lease or are possibly looking at purchasing?
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
In light ADMk2's comments, is anyone able to answer my above question in regards to what UAV Australia is currently operating/leasing & if/what we are looking at going forward?
As far as I am aware we are operating Herons and I think also Scan Eagle
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
In light ADMk2's comments, is anyone able to answer my above question in regards to what UAV Australia is currently operating/leasing & if/what we are looking at going forward?
Excellent question. RAAF currently has 3x Heron MUAV's on lease. 2 are deployed in Afghanistan and 1 is in Australia for training and test and development activities.

The Army has the Scan Eagle UAV on lease and 2 RQ-7b Shadow 200 UAV systems comprising 18x air vehicles on order.

Not sure if any of our special units operate any handheld UAV systems, but it wouldn't surprise me...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
the Australian defence minister isn't happy with the F-35 deliveries, more F18s on cards.

Australia gets edgy on F-35 deliveries
The JSF is not at risk - if it was it would be on the Projects of Concern List - and its not - and its never ever been on it.

There's a whole pile of other projects at risk before JSF is.

another ridiculous article conveniently distorting actual events.
 

Kirkzzy

New Member
In relation to the F-35, what will become of No 6 Squadron when they are introduced? As 6th Squadron has always been our "trainer/bomber" squadron for whatever bomber/strike aircraft we have had, be it canberras, f-111s and now super hornets. With our strike aircraft now (or will anyway) becoming the same as our regularly fighters, will the squadron be disbanded as No. 2 Operational Conversion Unit can now do all the training seeing as there is only one combat aircraft to train with?
 
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