Indian Army News and Discussion

Which Attack Helicopter Should Indian Army opt for


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shag

New Member
Woww the pics of the LCH test flight are are out!!
didn't expect that so soon!!!
I think it looks great!!
LCH's Hover-Cyclic Flight At 20-metres Successful : Real Pics
The first Technology Demonstrator (TD-1) ofIndia's Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)conducted an extended hover and slow-speed cyclic manoeuver routine yesterday at a height of a little over 20 metres. Everything went beautifully. TD-1 is not weaponised, and will be put through its full flight routines without a single weapon on board. Yesterday's flight was a confidence-building one in the run up to a formal first flight. Sources say there will be several such "confidence building" flights in the run up to the inaugural first flight in April. Wing Commander Unni Pillai piloted the LCH flight yesterday.

Sources confirmed to LiveFist, "Everything went beautifully. It was not a rigorous test, just to get the platform airborne and see how she held up in the air. Everything went fine. A degree of weight issues have been sorted out, but there is still some work to be done. That will be sorted out with TD-2 and TD-3. Now the focus is to validate the design and ensure it is a perfectly capable flying machine, which we of course know it is."

HAL has decided not to put out photos of videos of the flight, though it was , of course, photographed and videographed. Let's see what can be done!
 

dragonfire

New Member
Yeah I realised that later :p
I picked it from shiv aroor's blog.
You know i would like nothing better than to see an LCH in action against those damned Naxal guerrilla's raining some hell fires, livefist is the definitive stop for Indian defence related updates. The real pics of the LCH show a fine looking beast one could start comparing to the Mangusta or the Eurocopter Tiger. But i noticed there wasnt any pics from the front of the LCH while in flight or when on the ground.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
India may scrap artillery tender and may opt to develop indigenous 155mm solution. For details read Ajai Shukla's article on the role of DRDO’s laboratory, the Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) in this developing story. Link provided below:

'155-mm Gun Purchase DRDO Enters Fray'.
 
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dragonfire

New Member
India may scrap artillery tender and may opt to develop indigenous 155mm solution. For details read Ajai Shukla's article on the role of DRDO’s laboratory, the Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) in this developing story. Link provided below:

'155-mm Gun Purchase DRDO Enters Fray'.
We have unfortunately a defence minister who is so paranoid of any scam ( a common element in the indian mega deals) that he would set back the entire process by 3 years (fresh tenders and trials) than be authorizing a deal that has even got any indication that a scam had taken place. All India's enemies need to do is to make sure some scam related press coverage happens on every military deal to derail it.

With DRDO entering the fray any Hopes the IA had for acquiring the howitzers any time soon goes down the drain. There are some deals that should be fast tracked. I however doubt that the DRDO would outright be given the order because they dont have have a product, and the only silver lining in the aspect of DRDO's entry is that it will be partnering the Indian private sector which if any recent indications are to go by is a positive development
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
^^I too see a silver lining for India. You guys have a large requirement for 155mm guns, so it's worth the effort and pain to develop this capability to make on your own. Best of luck with that.
 

kay_man

New Member
^^I too see a silver lining for India. You guys have a large requirement for 155mm guns, so it's worth the effort and pain to develop this capability to make on your own. Best of luck with that.
DRDO and especially ARDE has a lot of experience in manufacturing and upgrading artillery pieces, so this is a very positive and obvious decision. However, im wondering why the DRDO and the MoD haven't thought of this earlier.....

Also many years back there was news that DRDO had produce a 185mm howitzer too, however that was rejected by the Army then.
What are the prospects of such a towed howitzer today?
 

dragonfire

New Member
^^I too see a silver lining for India. You guys have a large requirement for 155mm guns, so it's worth the effort and pain to develop this capability to make on your own. Best of luck with that.
I dont think the indigenous development is the solution though, the gun requirement is decades old and if a new gun has to be developed then you are looking at a time line of 4-6 years to develop, test, rectify issues, then trials etc and atleast another 5 to fully arm the the IA as per its requirements, and this is only for version 1 and 2 which will obviously be outclassed by other peer systems by the time it is fully operational and then another 5 years to develop and operationalize Version 3 and 4.

The advantages however would be that the capability would be developed and a lot of forex will be saved.

The solution i feel is that a part of the requirement should be given to DRDO but the bulk of the current needs should be taken care of by directly acquiring the systems, the ratio could be around 65:35.

This would be advantageous all around th IA will get the much required guns immediately and the capability will be indigenously acquired as well. Foriegn collaboration along with indian private entities with DRDO should form a consortium like the very successful case of the BrahMos Corporation.
 

dragonfire

New Member
DRDO and especially ARDE has a lot of experience in manufacturing and upgrading artillery pieces, so this is a very positive and obvious decision. However, im wondering why the DRDO and the MoD haven't thought of this earlier.....

Also many years back there was news that DRDO had produce a 185mm howitzer too, however that was rejected by the Army then.
What are the prospects of such a towed howitzer today?
I dont think the DRDO and its allied agencies/labs have a competent product now.
 

dragonfire

New Member
That may be so. But my question is ....Is there any potential for a 185mm towed gun?
I don't think that there is a stated need for 185 mm gun from the IA. The current (/old) need is for 155 mm guns both towed and self-propelled. Also the artillery equipment currently is of 155 mm (bofors/m-46 etc) and below caliber so from a commonality perspective a 185 mm gun stands out.

The current need is what the IA will focus on and be involved in acquiring the capability for. The 185 mm gun developed by ARDE was a few decades back and it was rejected then and it can be easily assumed that it will be irrelevant in its current form today. Also most current peer systems are 155 mm guns. Besides which technological developments have improved the guns in being more accurate having better range and rate for fire and explosives development making them more deadly. Also MBRLs and ground attack missiles and guided munitions have been able to complement the artillery guns well in the 21st Century
 

kay_man

New Member
DRDO Reveals Specifications of Arjun Mark-II Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)


2010-11-04 S. Sundaresh, the Chief Controller (Armaments and Combat Engineering) of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has revealed the specifications of a future main battle tank- the Arjun Mark-II.
These tanks are intended to replace the T-72 MBTs in the Indian Army in a post-2020 situation.

India Defence provides actual quotations by Mr. S. Sundaresh following by a comprehensive listing of all available specification parameters.

"For engine development, we have formed a national team comprising members from the academia, the user, industry and the DRDO. We have also gone in for an international consultant."

"We are confident that we will be ready with the FMBT prototype in five to seven years."

"We are trying to involve all the stakeholders -- the user [the Army], quality control personnel and the production agency -- in this project and the industry will be our partner. We will go for a modular design so that we can always upgrade the tank when new technology comes in."

"The immediate task for the CVRDE [Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment] is to develop the Arjun-Mk II tank and demonstrate it to the user and go for the production of 124 numbers in the HVF (Heavy Vehicles Factory]."

"With this upgrade, the commander can carry out his hunting job at night with his thermal sight and engage targets more effectively."

"The penalty for using these bricks (explosive armor reactive panel) is that they will add 1.5 tonnes to the tank's weight. But we can prevent top attack and side attack. We can add to the tank's protection from missiles and rocket-propelled grenades."
-- S. Sundaresh, Chief Controller (Armaments and Combat Engineering), DRDO.

Arjun Mark II FMBT's engine will be two-thirds the size of Arjun Mark I MBT's engine and will generate 1,500-horsepower. First prototype of the indigenous engine would be ready by 2016. FMBT will weigh 50 tonnes.

Project to develop the transmission for the tank is being launched. Engine and transmission ( aka "Bharat Power Pack") will meet the FMBT's mobility requirements.

Volume occupied by the electronics package will be low.

A total of 93 upgrades, including the advanced air defence gun system for firing at attack helicopters. Missiles firing capability to destroy long-range targets and bring down attack helicopters.

Panoramic sight with night vision for the tank's commander. An automatic target tracking system to add accuracy when firing on a moving target.

Explosive reactive armor panel which will comprise explosives in metallic brick form. These bricks will be mounted all round the MBT. When the enemy ammunition hits these bricks, they will explode and retard the energy of the projectile. Tanks armor will not be penetrated.

Improvements in material, fuel injection and filtration technologies will contribute to the reduction in the engine size without compromising on power.

Indian Army has placed an intent for production of 124 Arjun-Mk II tanks.

Phase I, 45 tanks will roll out with 56 upgrades, including the missile firing capability and the commander's panoramic sight with night vision.

Phase II, the remaining 79 tanks, with all the 93 improvements, will come off the assembly line. “By 2013-14, the first batch of around 30 tanks will go out,” Dr. Sivakumar said.

124 Arjun-Mk II tanks would cost Rs.5,000 crores.
 

kay_man

New Member
arjun mk2 specifications revealed

DRDO Reveals Specifications of Arjun Mark-II Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)


2010-11-04 S. Sundaresh, the Chief Controller (Armaments and Combat Engineering) of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has revealed the specifications of a future main battle tank- the Arjun Mark-II.
These tanks are intended to replace the T-72 MBTs in the Indian Army in a post-2020 situation.

India Defence provides actual quotations by Mr. S. Sundaresh following by a comprehensive listing of all available specification parameters.

"For engine development, we have formed a national team comprising members from the academia, the user, industry and the DRDO. We have also gone in for an international consultant."

"We are confident that we will be ready with the FMBT prototype in five to seven years."

"We are trying to involve all the stakeholders -- the user [the Army], quality control personnel and the production agency -- in this project and the industry will be our partner. We will go for a modular design so that we can always upgrade the tank when new technology comes in."

"The immediate task for the CVRDE [Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment] is to develop the Arjun-Mk II tank and demonstrate it to the user and go for the production of 124 numbers in the HVF (Heavy Vehicles Factory]."

"With this upgrade, the commander can carry out his hunting job at night with his thermal sight and engage targets more effectively."

"The penalty for using these bricks (explosive armor reactive panel) is that they will add 1.5 tonnes to the tank's weight. But we can prevent top attack and side attack. We can add to the tank's protection from missiles and rocket-propelled grenades."
-- S. Sundaresh, Chief Controller (Armaments and Combat Engineering), DRDO.

Arjun Mark II FMBT's engine will be two-thirds the size of Arjun Mark I MBT's engine and will generate 1,500-horsepower. First prototype of the indigenous engine would be ready by 2016. FMBT will weigh 50 tonnes.

Project to develop the transmission for the tank is being launched. Engine and transmission ( aka "Bharat Power Pack") will meet the FMBT's mobility requirements.

Volume occupied by the electronics package will be low.

A total of 93 upgrades, including the advanced air defence gun system for firing at attack helicopters. Missiles firing capability to destroy long-range targets and bring down attack helicopters.

Panoramic sight with night vision for the tank's commander. An automatic target tracking system to add accuracy when firing on a moving target.

Explosive reactive armor panel which will comprise explosives in metallic brick form. These bricks will be mounted all round the MBT. When the enemy ammunition hits these bricks, they will explode and retard the energy of the projectile. Tanks armor will not be penetrated.

Improvements in material, fuel injection and filtration technologies will contribute to the reduction in the engine size without compromising on power.

Indian Army has placed an intent for production of 124 Arjun-Mk II tanks.

Phase I, 45 tanks will roll out with 56 upgrades, including the missile firing capability and the commander's panoramic sight with night vision.

Phase II, the remaining 79 tanks, with all the 93 improvements, will come off the assembly line. “By 2013-14, the first batch of around 30 tanks will go out,” Dr. Sivakumar said.

124 Arjun-Mk II tanks would cost Rs.5,000 crores.
 

funtz

New Member
"For engine development, we have formed a national team comprising members from the academia, the user, industry and the DRDO. We have also gone in for an international consultant."

"We are confident that we will be ready with the FMBT prototype in five to seven years."
-------------------------------------------------------------

"We are trying to involve all the stakeholders -- the user [the Army], quality control personnel and the production agency -- in this project and the industry will be our partner. We will go for a modular design so that we can always upgrade the tank when new technology comes in."

"The immediate task for the CVRDE [Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment] is to develop the Arjun-Mk II tank and demonstrate it to the user and go for the production of 124 numbers in the HVF (Heavy Vehicles Factory]."

"With this upgrade, the commander can carry out his hunting job at night with his thermal sight and engage targets more effectively."

"The penalty for using these bricks (explosive armor reactive panel) is that they will add 1.5 tonnes to the tank's weight. But we can prevent top attack and side attack. We can add to the tank's protection from missiles and rocket-propelled grenades."
-- S. Sundaresh, Chief Controller (Armaments and Combat Engineering), DRDO.

Arjun Mark II FMBT's engine will be two-thirds the size of Arjun Mark I MBT's engine and will generate 1,500-horsepower. First prototype of the indigenous engine would be ready by 2016. FMBT will weigh 50 tonnes.

Project to develop the transmission for the tank is being launched. Engine and transmission ( aka "Bharat Power Pack") will meet the FMBT's mobility requirements.

Volume occupied by the electronics package will be low.

A total of 93 upgrades, including the advanced air defence gun system for firing at attack helicopters. Missiles firing capability to destroy long-range targets and bring down attack helicopters.

Panoramic sight with night vision for the tank's commander. An automatic target tracking system to add accuracy when firing on a moving target.

Explosive reactive armor panel which will comprise explosives in metallic brick form. These bricks will be mounted all round the MBT. When the enemy ammunition hits these bricks, they will explode and retard the energy of the projectile. Tanks armor will not be penetrated.

Improvements in material, fuel injection and filtration technologies will contribute to the reduction in the engine size without compromising on power.

Indian Army has placed an intent for production of 124 Arjun-Mk II tanks.

Phase I, 45 tanks will roll out with 56 upgrades, including the missile firing capability and the commander's panoramic sight with night vision.

Phase II, the remaining 79 tanks, with all the 93 improvements, will come off the assembly line. “By 2013-14, the first batch of around 30 tanks will go out,” Dr. Sivakumar said.

124 Arjun-Mk II tanks would cost Rs.5,000 crores.
The F-MBT and the Arjun MBT mark-II are getting mixed up in the details.

Arjun Mk-II has the 2013-14 time frame, F-MBT seems to be a 2020ish induction.

The army is really stuck with the 50 ton weight issue, US Army has successfully operated heavier tanks in deserts, the protection they provide should be an edge as much as an liability.

All these upgrades are useless for the army, at 124-248 nos. of tanks these tanks wont be anywhere near a battlefield. As a generational development, they are good, will help in the eventual F-MBT.

Hope the DRDO-Ministry of Defence-Army combination learns form the massive screw up they have managed with the Arjun MBT project, and apply all they have learned to make the F-MBT project a success.
 

kay_man

New Member
The F-MBT and the Arjun MBT mark-II are getting mixed up in the details.

Arjun Mk-II has the 2013-14 time frame, F-MBT seems to be a 2020ish induction.

The army is really stuck with the 50 ton weight issue, US Army has successfully operated heavier tanks in deserts, the protection they provide should be an edge as much as an liability.

All these upgrades are useless for the army, at 124-248 nos. of tanks these tanks wont be anywhere near a battlefield. As a generational development, they are good, will help in the eventual F-MBT.

Hope the DRDO-Ministry of Defence-Army combination learns form the massive screw up they have managed with the Arjun MBT project, and apply all they have learned to make the F-MBT project a success.
Although they are banging on 50 tonnes weight thing, i dont think that will happen.
as per the article first 40 or so tanks will have 53 refinements............which include ERA and all.
so i predict the weight of the MBT will not be much different from the current 58 tonnes might even be more .......areound 62..........as a lot of new stuff is being added that was not present earlier.

the FMBT is supposed to be an unmanned turret design .......so all the size and weight reduction might actually help there.
 

funtz

New Member
Although they are banging on 50 tonnes weight thing, i dont think that will happen.
as per the article first 40 or so tanks will have 53 refinements............which include ERA and all.
so i predict the weight of the MBT will not be much different from the current 58 tonnes might even be more .......areound 62..........as a lot of new stuff is being added that was not present earlier.

the FMBT is supposed to be an unmanned turret design .......so all the size and weight reduction might actually help there.
The weight target of 50 tons is for the FMBT, and the Army controls its requirements, all they have to do is to put in the requirement of a 50 ton future MBT, and DRDO bodies will have to work on the weight target.

The 53 or 93 whatever refinements are for the Arjun mark 2, the ERA alone is going to add up to 1.2tons as per the article, then there is the active protection system etc.
 

kay_man

New Member
Upgraded Arjun MBT Mark-II Serial Production to Begin in 2014

2011-02-14 After more than 90 upgrades, an advanced variant of the Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) will undergo serial production in 2014. The tank, Arjun Mark-II, will be equipped with an indigenous engine a year after the start of its serial production to replace its German power plant, Defence Researchand Development Organisation (DRDO) officials told Press Trust of India.

"The advanced Arjun will be equipped with Explosive Reactive Armour and missile-firing capability from its main gun and better night-vision capabilities," they said. The officials said that the gear box of the tank too would be upgraded to improve its performance.

Meanwhile, the DRDO has decided to go ahead with the first phase of the tank's trial in June this year. "The user -- Indian Army -- would be involved in the trial from the phase one itself. The second phase would take place sometime early next year," said the officials. 124 Arjun Mark-I tanks, comprising two regiments, have already been inducted into the Army after being manufactured in Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi. The regiments are based in the western sector.
 
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