i was wondering the same thing
Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP
The first section mentions nothing about the Strategic Sealift requirement all it says is to make the transition to the LHDs
A hypothetical carrier buy for the RAN?
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Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP
The first section mentions nothing about the Strategic Sealift requirement all it says is to make the transition to the LHDs
its got a better chance under the current govt.
the prev govt was not going to buy second hand ships again after what happened with the "newport news" buys....
the issue is what confidence the assessment team has and how much attention they pay to lessons learnt from the NN buys.
we've passed up some very very good offers in the past (space related gear, armour, king of the battlefield stuff, fighting vessels) without a blink....
so this is no guarantee that there will be a buy
It is interesting the the oldest Bay class is not being offered, rather the Largs which has, apparently, just concluded a refit. Perhaps that is to make it more attractive for purchase and to stave off concerns about condition.
it will be a huge issue, the govt is very very gun-shy after some of our prev buys.
we've passed up on ex warstock in the past, ie brand new, never used, but mothballed as warfighting reserves - and we walked on by.
some of the stuff we were offered by the germans at mates rates would make you cry....
Link Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP
The above link is a transcript of the announcement, the reason I had the querry is that it makes no mention of the future Sea Lift Ship as touted in the White Paper.
Quote "We are transitioning to a number of large amphibious landing dock vessels. They're being built in Spain and our timetable for putting those amphibious landing and helicopter dock vessels into operation is the middle of this decade, so 2015.
In the meantime, we have to transition to that and so there is a requirement to look at our existing capability, which we have, and decide whether we need to add to that capability as we make the transition to the new landing dock vessels"
This to me implies replacing our existing capability ie Manoora/Kanimble/Tobruk (one, two or the 3?) prior to to arrival of the LHD's and makes no mention of the Future Sea Lift Ship, but rather a transition to the LHD's, you would think that if it was to be they would mention that the buy was already planned for but this option would be a much cheaper alternative for the Australian tax payer ?
Hmmm, pity. At the risk of straying further off topic at least the RFA's are designed for an extended life and are 'farm machinery' in many respects. (noting even very basic equipment has risks if not properly managed as one tragic RAN even proved) It would appear to be a very attractive option.
Are you able to expand on that ?
take your pick, depending on who you talk to in Navy, any one of them is donald ducked.....
not really.
RFA Lars Bay was commissioned 17 Dec. 2006. She is four years and one month old, at the moment... I am unaware of any ship which is worn out that quickly... While I am sure the current state of the budget may forgo a purchase, a lease and purchase later can be arranged with the government able to proclaim significant overall savings...
I think you are missing the point ? The quote from the press release implies it could replace/ad to the current capability with no mention of the Future Sea Lift Ship, this to me could possibly mean that this aquisition may or may not take place with the possibility of the Future Sea Lift ship still going ahead ?
The other issue with this is how much it will cost to keep old and worn tonnage going. The Largs would lift a lot of load off the LPH's allowing one to go and providing a source of spare for the other. It lower crew numbers and operating cost will also be a significant saving. If you could recoup 50% of the purchase price in operating cost returns then it would be worth buying now noting the money is set aside for a sea lift ship.
Operating costs for the Largs with commercial crew (ignoring helose etc) could be in the order of UD40K to USD50Ka day (plucked from the air based on current Mership rates and includes accumulated funds for docking and upkeep). The LPH would be much more.
the budget for the Sealift Ship is 200m isnt it? depending on how cheap we get the bay we could end up still getting the Sealift Ship aswel
this is all me speculating tho, i did get the same impression as you tho, the Bay would be seperate to the Sealift Ship.
I got the impression when I read the press release the future sea lift ship is noid and void if the Lars Bay is purchased/leased... There is no mention of a future sea lift ship maybe for a reason... The Lars Bay is the future sea lift ship bought/leased earlier because she became available earlier...
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The Lars Bay class had significant overruns... From navy matters:
The cost of the two Swan Hunter ships was believed to have risen from an original £210 million to £309 million incurred so far, and the cost of the BAE ships had risen from £122 million to £187 million - largely because of problems associated with Swan Hunter. The MOD confirmed that both figures would "increase under the settlement".
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Australia will do well getting the one Lars Bay for Australian $200 million or there abouts... Therefore the Lars Bay will consume all of the funds associated for the future sea lift ship...
Why do you think the Australians would use civilians to crew their Lars Bay and not the RAN sailors? Don't the Aussies use RAN sailors to crew all three of their amphibious ships today?
I doubt they will not use civilian crews given the domestic commercial conditions of service (more expensive) and the fact we have no arrangements for this. I was simply looking at indicative costing.
The Swan Hunter jobs protection fiasco (money having to be pumped in to keep the yard functioning to get the ships built, then to pay for remedial work on them by BAe) has no bearing on the resale price of Largs (NOT Lars) Bay. The price will be what we can get for it, & that means less (because she's had five years use) than the cost of a new-build ship. AUD200 million would be much more than each BAe ship cost new, even adjusted for inflation since they were completed.
I don't watch the currency exchange rates much, but in the past I would say the Aussie dollar is worth about two British pounds sterling offhand... And while its true she will fetch what they can catch for her, and probably get less, I doubt very much Australia will be able to fetch her and a newly built sister for Aussie $200 million... Australia is NOT going to get two ships for the price of one...
The British are not so naive to sell a four year old ship for half price, they would be better off laying her up and keeping her... If anything concerning the deep recession, the Aussie government will pocket whatever savings of the used ship...
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