Boeing Unveils New Stealthy F-15

[moahunter]

$100 million each - that sounds dangerously close to the per aircraft cost of the F-35..

Per my post in the F35 thread:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/f-35-multirole-joint-strike-fighter-2013-50/

Canada is paying C$9billion for 65 F35 aircraft (approx C$138m per plane), with a 20 year cost projected at about $16billion (approx C$246m per plane). Some reports suggest $18 billion over 20 years.

Ottawa to spend $16-billion on fighter jets - The Globe and Mail

PS - note US$ and C$ are close to par (fluctuate up and down a bit).

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

The F-15 looks set to carry on...with the saudis. 84 new builds and 70 refurbishments, it could make the Saudis the meanest air force in the Middle east.

With 230+ F-15s (esp if 2/3 the silent eagle config) and 72 Eurofighters, that could qualitatively exceed the Israelis even with the impending F-35s (as the bulk of the IAF still comprises the older netz and barak F-16s.

U.S. Saudi Sale May Have 84 F-15s, Total $30 Billion - BusinessWeek

No wonder the Israelis are complaining. However, an F-15 order will keep the Boeing line open until the next decade. Can't see the US congress passing up on this deal.

 

[adi]

I guess I was wrong. Cash talks. Definitely the guy with most shiny toys in the region. They should get DDG too, hey helping the economy and all.

A proposed U.S. arms sale to Saudi Arabia will include 84 new Boeing Co. F-15 fighter jets and may be valued at as much as $30 billion, according to a government official familiar with the plan.

The deal also calls for selling 72 UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters built by United Technologies Corp.’s Sikorsky unit and refurbishing 70 Saudi F-15s, said the official, who asked not to be identified because terms are still under discussion.

bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-21/u-s-saudi-sale-is-said-to-approach-30-billion-including-84-f-15-fighters.html

 

[fretburner]

The article did not say which variant... would it be safe to say this will be the F-15SE? Or will this be something like the F-15K or F-15SG?

If this is indeed the F-15SE, this will probably entice other operators to buy the same variant. Japan for example, might chose to drop the F-18 International and just focus on having an airforce of F-15s and F-2s exclusively.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Needs congress export clearance for the stealth version first. Not sure if the Korean clearance equates to global clearance.

A non-stealth one will still be more advanced than the -SG due to improved avionics (greater digitisation and probably better radar). SG version was a yr 2005 designed one (which was itself a minor improvement over the K 2002 version.

Can't see the saudis accepting a non-stealth version though.

 

[swerve]

The F-15 looks set to carry on...with the saudis. 84 new builds and 70 refurbishments, it could make the Saudis the meanest air force in the Middle east.

With 230+ F-15s (esp if 2/3 the silent eagle config) and 72 Eurofighters, that could qualitatively exceed the Israelis even with the impending F-35s (as the bulk of the IAF still comprises the older netz and barak F-16s.

U.S. Saudi Sale May Have 84 F-15s, Total $30 Billion - BusinessWeek

No wonder the Israelis are complaining. However, an F-15 order will keep the Boeing line open until the next decade. Can't see the US congress passing up on this deal.

I'd expect the oldest F-15s to start retiring before all the new aircraft are in service. The first F-15C/Ds were delivered in 1981.

I see this as replacing the F-15C/D with new-build aircraft, & refurbishing the F-15S (70 is about the number of them in service), but not increasing overall numbers.

There's also the possibility of a follow-on order of Typhoons. 72 have been ordered, but Saudi Arabia has over 100 Tornados. Many of the Tornado IDS are currently being upgraded to keep them current until they retire, but a replacement will be needed in a decade or so.

 

[fretburner]

There's also the possibility of a follow-on order of Typhoons. 72 have been ordered, but Saudi Arabia has over 100 Tornados. Many of the Tornado IDS are currently being upgraded to keep them current until they retire, but a replacement will be needed in a decade or so.

They probably will order more F-15SE's instead of Typhoons since those are optimized for Air-to-Air combat. After all, they can always remove the weapons bay should they not need stealth and carry more bombs. Typhoons for air superiority and F-15SE's as their bombers/multi-role fighters.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Looks like the deal is pretty much confirmed.

The Israelis won't lobby congress to block the deal
U.S. to sell F-15 fighter jets to Saudis | Nation | Jewish Journal

Sparking a new battle between the engine makers
Journal Inquirer > Business > Saudi F-15 sale will boost Pratt or GE

The GE F110 engines won the ROK FX-1 and Singapore battle but PW's enhanced F100 struck back with the FX-2 order.

The Saudi F-15s are equipped with the PW engines but the GE engines were selected in a re-engining exercise for the F-15S.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Israelis Air Force

No - Type - Delivery
23 F-15A 1976
2 F-15B 1978
1 F-15A 1982
15 F-15A 1993 ex-USAF surplus
1 F-15B 1993 ex-USAF surplus
18 F-15C 1981
13 F-15D 1981
25 F-15I 1998-1999

67 F-16A 1980
8 F-16B 1980
45 F-16C blk 30 1987-88
24 F-16D 1987-88
30 F-16C blk 40 1991-93
30 F-16D 1991-93
36 F-16A 1994 surplus
15 F-16B 1994 surplus
102 F-16I 2004-09

The F-16A/Bs, F-15A-Ds are coming to 30 years old. With just 25 F-15Is + 129 aging F-16C/D, 102 F-16Is and the highly expensive F-35As, Israel faces a growing disparity vis-a vis the rest of the arab world.

 

[SARC]

They probably will order more F-15SE's instead of Typhoons since those are optimized for Air-to-Air combat. After all, they can always remove the weapons bay should they not need stealth and carry more bombs. Typhoons for air superiority and F-15SE's as their bombers/multi-role fighters.

Chief, sorry get it right, we're selling F-15SA's (downgraded F-15Ks). We're not selling the Stealth-Capable F-15SE.

 

[fretburner]

Yeah... NO Silent Eagles for Saudi Arabia: Saudi is not a potential customer for Silent Eagle

I wonder if Israel will the the SE's though?

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Rejected according to the world tribune.

Obama rejected Netanyahu request for F-15E in 'tough' session

 

[swerve]

They probably will order more F-15SE's instead of Typhoons since those are optimized for Air-to-Air combat. After all, they can always remove the weapons bay should they not need stealth and carry more bombs. Typhoons for air superiority and F-15SE's as their bombers/multi-role fighters.

Saudi F-15s can't use long-range stand-off weapons. The USA won't sell such weapons to the Saudis, or allow non-US stand-off weapons to be integrated on Saudi F-15s, same as the UAE F-16Es. The Saudis will therefore have to rely on their Typhoons for Storm Shadow carriage when the Tornado GR4s retire. They may well decide that they don't have enough Typhoons for all the roles they're expected to perform.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

This time article is 32 years old and still applicable. Timeless...

World: Why the Saudis Want the F-15 - TIME

 

[fretburner]

Saudi F-15s can't use long-range stand-off weapons. The USA won't sell such weapons to the Saudis, or allow non-US stand-off weapons to be integrated on Saudi F-15s, same as the UAE F-16Es. The Saudis will therefore have to rely on their Typhoons for Storm Shadow carriage when the Tornado GR4s retire. They may well decide that they don't have enough Typhoons for all the roles they're expected to perform.

In that case, Israel shouldn't be paranoid then. I guess Obama just wants Israel to (1) buy the F-35 and (2) make more "compromises" with regards to its neighbors. It's going to be tough.

 

[OPSSG]

Even stranger news that Kuwait has expressed an interest in becoming one of the first operators of the Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle, according to Jane's Defense Weekly. Currently, the emirate has no F-15s in its combat aircraft inventory, which consists of two squadrons of Boeing F/A-18C/D Hornets, a total of 39 aircraft (see link here and here).

 

[fretburner]

With that massive F-15SA deal... I would bet more and more states will try to buy the F-15SE or Super Hornets. I'm still stumped on those 2,000-lb bombs, HARMs and Harpoons. Can the latter be configured for ground attack vs maritime attack?

 

[fretburner]

Does this mean South Korea will be the launch customer and not Kuwait?

Boeing, KAI Sign Deal on F-15SE Weapon Bay

U.S. aerospace giant Boeing and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) signed a memorandum of agreement Nov. 3 for the South Korean aircraft manufacturer to design, develop and manufacture the conformal weapon bay (CWB) for the F-15 Silent Eagle, Boeing announced...

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

The CWB could be a separate product on its own (though an integral piece if anyone wants a F-15SE).

As a retrofit option, the Koreans and Boeing appear to be thinking of more than just future F-15SE sales.

 

[kwaigonegin]

The F-22 is not a compromise between stealth and maneuverability. And it's stealthier than the F-117. The F-22 is said to be at -40 dBsm.

I think everyone on this thread is saying the same thing but just worded differently! Yes there is compromise between stealth and performance.. always has been and always will be BUT with the F-22 the trade offs are minimal when compared to the current/forseeable threat theatre.
It's like saying if I own a Bugatti Veyron and all my competitors drives a Chevy Nova does it matter if I put a 100 ibs rock in the trunk (thus making it a tad slower) if that rock make the bugatti "stealtier"?

 

[fretburner]

The radar that was supposed to go into the F-15SE enters production

APG-82(V)1 Radar for the US Air Force F-15E Aircraft to Enter Production

ST. LOUIS, Sept. 27, 2011 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced that the U.S. Air Force has granted the F-15E Radar Modernization Program (RMP) approval to begin low-rate initial production (LRIP) of the APG-82(V)1 radar system...

The RMP development effort is undergoing an aggressive 14-month, 110-sortie flight test program at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., and Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. Boeing and Raytheon will perform data reduction analysis throughout the test phase to verify that the system performance meets the rigorous specifications that make the APG-82(V)1 radar state-of-the-art...