Why are woman not allowed to work on USN's submarines

[subcommander]

i mean making a hot bunk with a woman would be a little difficult.

 

[AegisFC]

Women on USN submarines may happen sooner than anyone thought.

SecNav, CNO: Women should serve on subs - Navy News, news from Iraq - Navy Times

SecNav, CNO: Women should serve on subs

Women should be allowed to serve aboard submarines, and the Navy is “moving out aggressively” to make it happen, according to the service’s top civilian.

“I believe women should have every opportunity to serve at sea, and that includes aboard submarines,” Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said Thursday in a statement to Navy Times.

His comment comes one week after Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen told congressional lawmakers that he thought it was time to end the ban against women on submarines.

Mullen’s successor, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead, also said he is “very comfortable” addressing the crewing policy.

“There are some particular issues with integrating women into the submarine force; issues we must work through in order to achieve what is best for the Navy and our submarine force,” Roughead said in a statement. “Accommodations are a factor, but not insurmountable.”

The rest of the article is on the Navy Times site.

 

[Sea Toby]

America's nuclear submarines usually do long patrols without ever surfacing. A submarines loses its stealthy characteristics every time it has to surface. Submariners also have to have secondary skills as well, much more so than a surface warship.

Frankly, considering the storage situation aboard, I don't see where there is enough storage to store feminine products....

 

[DIREWOLF75]

America's nuclear submarines usually do long patrols without ever surfacing. A submarines loses its stealthy characteristics every time it has to surface. Submariners also have to have secondary skills as well, much more so than a surface warship.

Yes, that is why you want highly skilled people, and the relevance for wether those should be male or female is exactly what?
And yes, surfacing needlessly is bad for submarines, ALL military submarines i might add, your point being again?

Frankly, considering the storage situation aboard, I don't see where there is enough storage to store feminine products....

nfloorl:

Wow, i mean WOW, how silly can the arguments get?

 

[r.e.b.c]

America's nuclear submarines usually do long patrols without ever surfacing. A submarines loses its stealthy characteristics every time it has to surface. Submariners also have to have secondary skills as well, much more so than a surface warship.

Frankly, considering the storage situation aboard, I don't see where there is enough storage to store feminine products....

Store feminine products..?
Most of you seem fairly self absorbed to possibly realise that women have a choice in contraception ranging from pills, injections to IUDs. These all come with the option to suppress the 'hygeine' issue. Therefore..not an issue...
The threads suggesting women will divert their male counterparts (yes...counterparts aka equals) from the task at hand and render them incapable of efficiently completing their duties says more about the men, than it does about the women.
And as for privacy, again..male issue as, quite frankly, women have better things to do than worry about checking out egotistical male bodies... Why would we need privacy anymore than anyone else..??

 

[Sea Toby]

Yes, that is why you want highly skilled people, and the relevance for wether those should be male or female is exactly what?
And yes, surfacing needlessly is bad for submarines, ALL military submarines i might add, your point being again?



nfloorl:

Wow, i mean WOW, how silly can the arguments get?

Maybe you don't realize the scale of three or four or five months of stored products. One doesn't go to the grocery store every week or two to restock. A submariner learns to appreciate powered eggs. A nuclear submarine don't restock eggs every week either.

 

[deadman0513]

Changes coming soon ??

2 article on female crews in US SSNs
Defense Tech: Mullen Wants Females on Subs
Navy Set to Crew Subs with Female Sailors

 

[Marc 1]

Maybe you don't realize the scale of three or four or five months of stored products. One doesn't go to the grocery store every week or two to restock. A submariner learns to appreciate powered eggs. A nuclear submarine don't restock eggs every week either.

Ignoring the totally practical suggestion from R.E.B.C. post #45 (confirmed by my wife who is a military Registered Nurse who is also fully qualified to operate as a Reproductive Health specialist - Norplant would work) - my wife reckons she would go through no more than 160 Super sized tampons in 6 months - space required - a rectangle 2 x 4 x 12 inches.

I have quite a high opinion of most of your other opinions, but to use the argument that there is insufficient space in the ships stores - this is rediculous.

 

[ThePuss]

[quote=

 

[DIREWOLF75]

Maybe you don't realize the scale of three or four or five months of stored products. One doesn't go to the grocery store every week or two to restock. A submariner learns to appreciate powered eggs. A nuclear submarine don't restock eggs every week either.

Considering how the average male eats more than the average female, the net difference is actually a clear reduction in storage needed.

nfloorl:


Im now eagerly awaiting you to start arguing for the logical extension of your own arguments, ie all female sub crews everywhere.

 

[gf0012-aust]

well, in the RAN the women eat the same as the men...

as for personal acoutrements in sanitary hygiene, they carry it on board as its their own personal choice in product selection.

ie the ships stores don't have a range of personal hygiene products to choose from ... granted the medical officer might have extras, but its not like going to woolworths or your local capital chemist.....

 

[DIREWOLF75]

well, in the RAN the women eat the same as the men...

SAME, well of course. But same amount? I very much doubt it. For Europe, men on average eat 20-25% more per day. The difference differs based on what the normal difference in average bodysize between men and women is.

And people with unusually high or low metabolism is spread fairly evenly among both men and women so that shouldnt make a significant difference either.

 

[gf0012-aust]

SAME, well of course. But same amount? I very much doubt it. For Europe, men on average eat 20-25% more per day. The difference differs based on what the normal difference in average bodysize between men and women is.

My comment was meant to be flippant (just in case you didn't detect it!)

we've had female submariners since 1999

I'm unsure as to the big deal with having women submariners on board. there is a view in some circles that they might be better acoustic warfare officers due to perception senses/sensors (no pun intended)

either way, they do the job, and do it well.

 

[LancasterBomber]

....there is a view in some circles that they might be better acoustic warfare officers due to perception senses/sensors (no pun intended)

Easyyyyyyyyyyyyyy now tiger! Lets not get carried away! You will upset my fragile male ego.

either way, they do the job, and do it well.

Agreed.

Female members of RAN serving in the sub fleet are class acts - today, next year and 20 years from now. If they weren't we would not put them there.

 

[Lofty_DBF]

I cant stand females onboard submarines it was one of the many reasons I discharged from the Navy.
I know work for a company that fixes the Subs and I cringe every time i hear a female voice making a pipe.
Females have not solved any crewing problems the Sub Force has they are a pain in the Ass.

[Moderator edit]Listen, mate: we'd rather not know about your misogynism. This is not the place for prejudice of that kind. If you wish to express a reasoned view, we'll pay attention, but not to this sort of stuff. [/edit]

 

[localhost127]

My comment was meant to be flippant (just in case you didn't detect it!)

we've had female submariners since 1999

I'm unsure as to the big deal with having women submariners on board. there is a view in some circles that they might be better acoustic warfare officers due to perception senses/sensors (no pun intended)

either way, they do the job, and do it well.

on that note, wouldn't the young serve better for acoustics? as hearing damage/freqency cut-off increases with age? is this taken into consideration at all? or does experience of an older submariner negate the (if any) acoustical advantage of the young

 

[gf0012-aust]

on that note, wouldn't the young serve better for acoustics? as hearing damage/freqency cut-off increases with age? is this taken into consideration at all? or does experience of an older submariner negate the (if any) acoustical advantage of the young

I would have thought so, except the current generation are generally stuffing up their hearing a lot faster.

 

[localhost127]

I would have thought so, except the current generation are generally stuffing up their hearing a lot faster.

all that audio compression and cheap earbud headphones don't help, either.

sorry to tangent---
gf, if you have a moment, is there any material (online) in which i could learn about sonar systems? im just a hobbyist, but im interested in just how much passive "listening" is done by humans today, versus computer systems and algorithms (processing, etc).

how much "listening" is still relied on by humans?

im having difficulty finding out the types of processes that are followed on a modern submarine re: sonar.

thanks,

 

[gf0012-aust]

gf, if you have a moment, is there any material (online) in which i could learn about sonar systems? im just a hobbyist, but im interested in just how much passive "listening" is done by humans today, versus computer systems and algorithms (processing, etc).

You won't get much on the processes, but the best way is to look up the companies that are typically involved and visit their sites.

if they are involved in oceanography, then you might come across some that have downloads of sonar models and sounds. ATLAS used to, but I don't recall seeing anything recent.

how much "listening" is still relied on by humans?

It's still a black art - humans stay in the loop

im having difficulty finding out the types of processes that are followed on a modern submarine re: sonar.

CREF pt 1. you can get better "general" ideas by also visiting the oceanographic reserach sites and deep sea technology sites.

sometimes the most useful answers don't lie with the "industry" vendors...

Pubs like Maritime Reporter, Ocean News, Sea Technology have very very god generalist titles that are worth reading. esp on dual use issues like synthetic scanning for wrecks etc....

 

[Grand Danois]

Here's a sonar image by the Danish Navy of a Soviet Whisky class, which sank under tow in 2007. Not on the rocks, but on the soft sea bed.