Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[ASFC]

Do not go down the JSS route, just no!!

JSS ships are still in their infancy-at least ones like what the Dutch and Canada where/are after. I'd say after Canterbury the RNZN should stick with what it knows, ordering a straight up repleshiment ship, at least for now and wait for countries with the political/military/financial clout to iron out problems with the JSS concept before taking the plunge and getting a RNZN JSS. The last thing you need and your Allies in the region need is a problem with an RNZN JSS which cuts 1/3 of the Tanker/repleshiment capacity in the South Pacfic for any length of time.

 

[StevoJH]

Do not go down the JSS route, just no!!

JSS ships are still in their infancy-at least ones like what the Dutch and Canada where/are after. I'd say after Canterbury the RNZN should stick with what it knows, ordering a straight up repleshiment ship, at least for now and wait for countries with the political/military/financial clout to iron out problems with the JSS concept before taking the plunge and getting a RNZN JSS. The last thing you need and your Allies in the region need is a problem with an RNZN JSS which cuts 1/3 of the Tanker/repleshiment capacity in the South Pacfic for any length of time.

They could always try join the RN replenishment ship replacement program, add an extra ship to the RN order.

 

[harryriedl]

They could always try join the RN replenishment ship replacement program, add an extra ship to the RN order.

just like the French have been considering. Would make sense

 

[Todjaeger]

Sorry Todjaeger, I didn't quite understand the "puchase civilian then leasing" arrangement. I was reading that as purchasing/leasing now-ish (whilst the Endeavour is still in service), or do you mean from say 2013 etc when the Endeavour retires, which then gives the Navy several years more then to find an appropriate/smaller JSS type suited to NZ's unique requirements?

Not a problem. What I was referring to was what/how the RAN handled the replacement of the HMAS Westralia. IIRC the Westralia was a Leaf-class tanker originally purchased for the RFA, which in was then leased to the RAN in 1989 and purchased outright in 1994-ish. Having been built in 1979, it was a single-hulled tanker and would run into the same MARPOL issues that are coming up for Endeavour.

Given the age of the Westralia (approaching 25 years), the fact that there had been a significant fire which had taken it out of service at one point and the MARPOL requirement the RAN looked around at replacements. What then RAN did was to purchase a double-hulled commercial tanker, the MV Delos in 2004. The MV Delos was then leased out to a civilian shipping company for a time while the RAN still operated the Westralia, until the vessel was brought in for refiting into HMAS Sirius in time to enter service when the Westralia was decommissioned.

Essentially my suggestion was to purchase now, assuming a suitable vessel is available at a reasonable price, a replacement for the Endeavour. Arrange to have a shipping company lease the tanker, that way the NZ government is getting revenue from the vessel and it is not sitting idle and have the RNZN continue operating the Endeavour until it is time for Endeavour to be decommissioned.

-Cheers

 

[ASFC]

They could always try join the RN replenishment ship replacement program, add an extra ship to the RN order.

Sounds like a plan, especially if BAE win the MARS contract, as their plan (IIRC) is to build the ships in ROK and then fit them out in Britain. If Oz and NZ got onboard for their impending replacements (Doesn't the RAN need a Success replacement in the next decade?), then the ships could still be built in ROK, but fitted out in Oz or NZ depending on what the respective Govts want to do.

 

[StevoJH]

Sounds like a plan, especially if BAE win the MARS contract, as their plan (IIRC) is to build the ships in ROK and then fit them out in Britain. If Oz and NZ got onboard for their impending replacements (Doesn't the RAN need a Success replacement in the next decade?), then the ships could still be built in ROK, but fitted out in Oz or NZ depending on what the respective Govts want to do.

Sirius might be in need of replacement as well if the RAN decide they actually need to be able to operate Choppers off their AOR's. Especially since they can apparently barely operate off Sirius at the moment, and considering that it doesn't even have a Hanger.

I know wiki isnt a good source, but since it supports my argument i'll use it.
Mr Wiki says that Sirius has an expected service life of 15 years, that means it will need replacing in 2021 as it commissioned in 2006.

 

[Todjaeger]

Sounds like a plan, especially if BAE win the MARS contract, as their plan (IIRC) is to build the ships in ROK and then fit them out in Britain. If Oz and NZ got onboard for their impending replacements (Doesn't the RAN need a Success replacement in the next decade?), then the ships could still be built in ROK, but fitted out in Oz or NZ depending on what the respective Govts want to do.

Three questions I have are
1. What sort of timeframe is NZ looking at in terms of a replacement vessel?
-- Then RAN is looking to replace HMAS Success circa-2015
2. What sort of capabilities is the RNZN looking at getting in a tanker?
-- From what I have read, the Endeavour appears to be just a tanker, but has roughly half the capacity of the Sirius, or two thirds the capacity of the Success, but no real provision for replenishment of stores, just fuel.
3. What sort of "price tag" is expected for the replacement?
- This is an area of concern IMV. At times NZ seems to pare down the level of funding, leading to situations where the level of funding is inappropriate for the path chosen. If a fuel and stores replenishment ship is chosen, it would likely need to be purpose built, and would therefore likely have a higher cost than a MOTS or COTS purchase. OTOH if the decision is made to go with a COTS tanker, again using Sirius as an example, the MV Delos was purchased in 2004 for ~ A$52 million and then modified. If participating in the MARS project, the replacement might cost in the area of ~ NZ$375 million based off current estimates of 6 fleet tankers at a cost of £800 million and a conversion rate of £1 to ~ NZ$2.83.

In any case, decisions will need to be made, and given the time needed for some projects, that is likely approaching soon.

-Cheers

 

[ASFC]

Three questions I have are
1. What sort of timeframe is NZ looking at in terms of a replacement vessel?
-- Then RAN is looking to replace HMAS Success circa-2015
2. What sort of capabilities is the RNZN looking at getting in a tanker?
-- From what I have read, the Endeavour appears to be just a tanker, but has roughly half the capacity of the Sirius, or two thirds the capacity of the Success, but no real provision for replenishment of stores, just fuel.
3. What sort of "price tag" is expected for the replacement?
- This is an area of concern IMV.......

Yes, it might be tight, especially with regard to money and timing. I wasn't necessarily suggesting either country joins MARS right now, or that they necessarily buy tankers (MARS also has a JSS type ship in its plans). NZ could take the HMAS Sirius route, that is buy a COTS tanker as a short term replacement, and tag on to the end of MARS for a longer term solution. I suppose it will all depend on what future NZ govts want and what they provide money wise to the RNZN.

 

[greenie]

Hello there, Does anybody out there know when the rubber duckies are coming for the protector fleet ? I understand that the annual reserve exercise (this year being hosted by Canterbury ) has been moved to a shore base due to it not being able to go to sea .
I see that the Navy Today mag has a picture of Wellington finishing sea trials , does that meen all of the protector fleet is ready to go at last!!

 

[mug]

Nope - we won't be seeing the OPVs for a while yet.

 

[greenie]

Nope - we won't be seeing the OPVs for a while yet.

Oh dear. Are you at liberty to say any more ? More than just a passing interest on my part.

 

[greenie]

Sorry , is it the disscusions between MOD and BAe?

 

[mug]

Yeah, regarding what to do with the weight issues.

 

[greenie]

So I spose the 500 million dollar question is..... Will we see them and the IPVs before christmas???
On another note does anybody no online where to get ships dwgs for the IPVs and the MRV? Ive found the OPVs
Thanks

 

[Sea Toby]

I assume dwgs you meant drawings. If you want to see them, look earlier in this thread several dozen pages.

The last I heard some may be commissioned before the end of the year, but more than likely not all. Something about waiting for delivery of new RHIBs, zodiacs instead of geminis.

As for the lateness, the Cowes Report suggested solving the ills before accepting delivery. Keep in mind the shipyards don't receive final payment until the ships are accepted. There is a reason why shipyards have cermonies for cutting the first steel, laying down the keel, launching and commissioning a ship. Those are the days they get payments.

 

[MrConservative]

I assume dwgs you meant drawings. If you want to see them, look earlier in this thread several dozen pages.

The last I heard some may be commissioned before the end of the year, but more than likely not all. Something about waiting for delivery of new RHIBs, zodiacs instead of geminis.

As for the lateness, the Cowes Report suggested solving the ills before accepting delivery. Keep in mind the shipyards don't receive final payment until the ships are accepted. There is a reason why shipyards have cermonies for cutting the first steel, laying down the keel, launching and commissioning a ship. Those are the days they get payments.

The only "battles" the Projector Protector Fleet will see for a while is in the court room. A squadron of lawyers at $500 an hour will be the only victors.

 

[greenie]

Thank you very much Sea toby.Looking now.

 

[mattyem]

new rhibs

great news team, we have already taken delivery of one of the new zodie rhibs, and have almost finished modifications of the rhib alcoves and cradle onboard CY. We will be proceeding to sea in the next few weeks!!

 

[greenie]

Great news , Is the ME team working on both sides of the ship and when do you think the other zodiac will arrive ?
You guys need to be at sea , youve been tied up at devenport for too long

 

[METEORSWARM]

Marine need this......attack to ground....

Naval Scalp

[ame="http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzcV7Iy6WA"]YouTube - Scalp Naval - Submarine & Surface Launched[/ame]