Peruvian navy help

[ROCK45]

Peru’s navy
I was looking for ideas on how to upgrade Peru’s navy main surface war ships. Kind of fun thing I’m trying to do and the goal or point would be trying to bring them up to higher standards. I’m looking for ideas and suggestions and curious to see how this will go. I am not strong in naval warfare at all and couldn’t tell a bad ship design from a good one nor do I know prices. It you had to rebuild Peru’s navy to say protect new off shore oil platforms near Ecuador and Chile’s borders, how would you do it?

Peru confirms over 1 billion barrels of oil reserves
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/17/content_7993359.htm

I don’t like using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peruvian_Navy_ships as a source but can’t seem to find a current 2008 list of Peru’s surface warships.

I attached a link to a French ship builder I just saw and articles about delivering Frigates to Singapore’s navy. These ships look so advance to anything Peru currently has are any of the different class ships Peru has worth upgrading.
3 New Frigates Boost Singapore Navy's 'Green-water' Capabilities
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3373650&c=ASI&s=SEA
Thanks in advance for any help in this odd post of mind.

 

[IrishHitman]

What sort of budget are we looking at?
And what is the current political climate between Peru and it's neighbours?

 

[Sea Toby]

Peru has done well with its Lupo class frigates, replacing them with more discarded Italian frigates seems to be the best picture in the near future. If Peru were going to buy any new ships, I would suspect another order for two to four submarines will be in the works.

 

[ROCK45]

climate

The climate will be turn nasty since Ecuador will claim the oil discovery as there own. Mr Chavez offers to help Ecuador and Chile and Ecuador already have a military bond. Chile just gave/sold some ships to Ecuador so go with Chile's training Ecuador. Chile I can find info on they seem to have a balance military.

budget- I don't know what ships cost
1st year $2.1 billion jump start
2nd year $1.2 billion

Peru could buy some Flankers with that kind of money but I don't know what ship radar's, anti-ship missile, etc cost. I can't even find a current web site on Peru's navy?

I wonder what Exxon, Shell, BP would loan them?

Thanks for joining guys

 

[harryriedl]

perhaps a MEKO class might do the trick to replace the Lupos as they are very sucessful in Latin amrica [Argentia has had good use out of the Two diffrent MEKO classes].
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_Navy from what ive seen the Lupo are the backbone of the fleet and apart from the Ex Netherland's cruiser they have a small french desgined corvert of 560tons and some
Auxiliaries and 4 tank landing ships dating from WW2
I was suprised that they only decommistioned a british daring destroyer last year.

apart from replacing Lupo's with a MEKO desgin i would think that getting a class of OPV for incresed persistance would help if they are planning on patroling the oil feilds.

sorry for the spelling spell check not working

 

[ROCK45]

Navy

What do discarded Italian frigates cost and could Peru buy one or more in under a two year period?

I'm having a problem finding the location of this off shore oil using Google maps.

 

[IrishHitman]

$3.3 Billion investment in new ships?
Or is that the overall military budget?

 

[ROCK45]

budget

$3.3 Billion investment in new ships and coastal air patrol.

 

[Sea Toby]

Have you read the wikipedia? Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_of_Peru

There are more links at the bottom of the page. While the wikipedia isn't the greatest source found on the internet, its a good place to start.

New small frigates can be bought for around $400 million, a good sized frigate will run near $500 million. But I bet Italy would be proud to sell Peru their Maestrales for $20-$30 million each, but a few at a time until their new FREMM frigates are built. Of course, I am talking US dollars.

 

[ROCK45]

Links

Thanks Sea Toby sometimes the brain locks up I just found the Peruvian Navy web site.

 

[IrishHitman]

Ok, I would recommend the CG-47 Ticonderoga-class or a similar type of missile cruiser or destroyer as a two ship deployment, to counter the air force deployment of the Chila and Ecuador as well as the submarine elements.

That's if you want overkill and overbudget, of course. I doubt Peru's ability to obtain and train crew for the Ticonderoga-class in time for any hostilities, nevermind the 28 million dollar cost per ship of maintaining the force. Destroyers to compliment them would also be needed. I also doubt the US's willingness to sell them to Peru, although the US is infamous for selling to anyone at all..

If the CG-47 is too expensive/overkill, I'd recommend Horizon-class and FREMM frigates. They would probably suit the Peruvean needs more, and would probably be more cost effective. At least one anti-sub and one anti-aircraft version would be needed. Expensive all the same though.

I doubt that any of these would be seriously needed unless a war is going to happen. Just buy up some old destroyers from bigger countries and you should do fine with a bit of modernisation.

Money buys quality, however.

EDIT: I really shouldn't have suggested the CG-47, it's just plain out of reach for Peru at the suggested budget..

 

[ROCK45]

modernization

It's modernization of ships that I know nothing about aircraft are a different story. Thanks everybody for helping and joining in.

 

[kato]

Ok, I would recommend the CG-47 Ticonderoga-class or a similar type of missile cruiser or destroyer as a two ship deployment

Sure, you could buy two cruisers for 3.3 billion. Or you could spend it on more useful things.

While Peru does have something of a history of having a few large units (see de Ruyters and Crown Colonies), you'd also need to replace their eight Lupos, and the six PR-72P corvettes around the same time.

For an all-new outfit, i'd propose 8 Meko Sentinel ($800 million) - or a similar ASW-enabled cheap OPV "corvette" - and 6 Meko A200 ($1.8 billion). Add $200 million for 8-10 new helos for these, and 6-8 new CN-235 MPA for another $300 million.
Although the low dollar would likely make all of those far pricier.

 

[ROCK45]

More is better

kato thanks for the help and for a bunch of cool ship types to look up I'll be busy for days.

 

[tatra]

The Lupo's originally built for Peru are from 1979-1987. The used Italian ones are from 1977-80. So, the oldest are about 30 years old. They should (easily) last another 10 years, with some upgrading.

The Maestrale class ships are from 1982-85, only about 5 years younger than the oldest Lupo's of the Peruvian navy i.e. not an alternative. By the time these 8 Lupos are to be replaced, they should go for new-built ships.

9-12 Mosaic corvettes might be a nice replacement, with 6-8 in multi-role version (76mm, 2x30mm, 2x3 tr-asw, 2x4 MM40, 2x8 VL MICA and a helicopter) and 3-4 in missile version (76mm, 2x4 MM40, 32 ESSM, 2x30mm + MANPADS, 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS).

9-12 multirole/swingrole Stanflex 300 as replacement for smaller vessels
eventually 6 new SSK, 2 LPD and 2 good AORs

Loose the old cruiser and WW2 era ships.

 

[kato]

Stanflex 300 would be a dead-end route. Zero commonality with their other ships. They'd also be even smaller than the current 560t corvettes even. Plus the basic ship design is 20 years old now already.
ESSM as the primary AAW weapon, and self-defence-only for 80% of the ships? Read effectively zero AAW?
LPDs? What for? To replace their 3 Korean-War-age LSTs? Some sort of multi-role light (10kt) LSL/MRD with 2 ships bought would better fit their requirements.
AORs? Those ships you outline there - other than the LPDs - don't exactly lend themself to expeditionary warfare, or even an escort navy.

 

[tatra]

Stanflex 300 would be a dead-end route. Zero commonality with their other ships. They'd also be even smaller than the current 560t corvettes even. Plus the basic ship design is 20 years old now already.
ESSM as the primary AAW weapon, and self-defence-only for 80% of the ships? Read effectively zero AAW?
LPDs? What for? To replace their 3 Korean-War-age LSTs? Some sort of multi-role light (10kt) LSL/MRD with 2 ships bought would better fit their requirements.
AORs? Those ships you outline there - other than the LPDs - don't exactly lend themself to expeditionary warfare, or even an escort navy.

1. How much commonality is there now between the Lupos and the smaller patrol boats now?
2. Staflex can be fitted with a choice of sensors, which can be common to both corvettes and patrol boats
3. Stanflex offers MCM capability, which now is virtually non-existant.
4. VL Mica as the primary selfdefence SAM, with ESSM providing an outer layer. I don't see why Peru would necessarily need longer range AAW. But if it does, I'm sure a MOSAIC version with 2-3 Mk41 and SM2 is easy to develop.
5. 2 (not too big) LPDs would give the same lift capability plus a lot more flexibility.
6. A couple of multi-store ships with RAS capability are needed not for expeditionary warfare but with a view to patrol endurance locally. Again, just adds flexibility. No huge ships necessarily.

 

[swerve]

...
LPDs? What for? To replace their 3 Korean-War-age LSTs? Some sort of multi-role light (10kt) LSL/MRD with 2 ships bought would better fit their requirements.....

Actually, a variant of the Korean-built (Daesun Shipbuilding & Engineering Co) Makassar class LPDs for Indonesia would seem ideal. They're about 10K tons, & seemingly transport-oriented. And they're very cheap. Two of them would do nicely. Perhaps a smaller helicopter deck.

Also available in a smaller size, I think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRI_Makassar_class

 

[kato]

1. How much commonality is there now between the Lupos and the smaller patrol boats now?

Not much - but if you buy new, you'd at least want to save on spare parts and logistics.

2. Staflex can be fitted with a choice of sensors, which can be common to both corvettes and patrol boats

That's more of an issue of the CMS (and its interfaces) - not Stanflex, which is the effector mount.

3. Stanflex offers MCM capability, which now is virtually non-existant.

Actually, not more than any other ships - the SF300 are equipped to control MRD drone minesweepers, there's no organic hunting/sweeping gear.

4. VL Mica as the primary selfdefence SAM, with ESSM providing an outer layer. I don't see why Peru would necessarily need longer range AAW. But if it does, I'm sure a MOSAIC version with 2-3 Mk41 and SM2 is easy to develop.

ESSM is essentially self-defense due to being limited by the number of missile directors available.
There's a certain need for theater AAW to counter both Ecuador - which relies more on its airforce than its rather small-scale navy - and Chile - which outnumbers both the Peruvian Navy and Airforce.
Meko A200 AAW would offer up to 40 cells Mk41 in the AAW config.

5. 2 (not too big) LPDs would give the same lift capability plus a lot more flexibility.

And would cost twice as much.

6. A couple of multi-store ships with RAS capability are needed not for expeditionary warfare but with a view to patrol endurance locally. Again, just adds flexibility. No huge ships necessarily.

Peru currently has a single medium-sized replenishment oiler, as well as two behemoth 30kt oilers without RAS gear (ex-US). All commissioned into Peruvian service in the late 90s, US service since mid 70s.
Replacing them is more likely 10 years than 5 years from now, before that i wouldn't bother.

The submarines could be worth a serious investment too. Both Ecuador, Columbia and Chile have been increasing their 3D ASW capabilities lately.

 

[swerve]

...And would cost twice as much.....

Depends on the LPD. Look at the Makassar class.