Hypothetical surface raider

[Jon K]

Now, this was an issue in a thread at sci.military.naval some years back before it was turned into flamefest newsgroup.

So, let's say you are a Project Manager in SPECTRE inc. and have received a contract from Bin Laden Constructions Inc. to construct a surface raider which should lay mayhem upon world's seaborne commerce. In addition to damage inflicted the operation should be financially self-supporting for as much as possible. Bin Laden Construction Inc. will provide you any commercial ship as a seaframe for your operations.

What kind of surface raider would you construct and what kind of weapons would you use?

 

[eliaslar]

I would constract a wind surf, it's not so difficult for such a vessel to travel fast and carry a very good amount of explosives.
Also it's easy to constract, silent and the only way to see it is visual, ok with the use of IR cameras it might be a bit easier to find a wind surf but it's still difficult.

 

[Systems Adict]

While this appears to be a good discussion topic, I'd be careful not to expound or wax lyrically on the subject. Explaining how to attack shipping, or building craft to carry out terrorist acts, is to say the least, frowned upon. :loony


But to "generalise", use of a standard cargo vessel / Ro-Ro Ferry might be a logical step, mainly due to costs.

Having a "bespoke" vessel built, with armament, would raise a red flag to most western govts, as the purchase of weaponry is a bit more controlled than it was in the 1980's (thanks to things like Saddam's Super Gun).

Then again, I don't understand the part about being "financially self-supporting". After all, if you want a "surface vessel" to conduct the tasks of a warship, would it not be wiser/easier just to buy one ??

Or are you think more along the lines of a German WWII raider, who posed as a merchant vessel, got close, then pulled the tarpaulins off & opened fire with its guns & torpedoes ??

Systems Adict

 

[Jon K]

But to "generalise", use of a standard cargo vessel / Ro-Ro Ferry might be a logical step, mainly due to costs.

Having a "bespoke" vessel built, with armament, would raise a red flag to most western govts, as the purchase of weaponry is a bit more controlled than it was in the 1980's (thanks to things like Saddam's Super Gun).

Then again, I don't understand the part about being "financially self-supporting". After all, if you want a "surface vessel" to conduct the tasks of a warship, would it not be wiser/easier just to buy one ??

Or are you think more along the lines of a German WWII raider, who posed as a merchant vessel, got close, then pulled the tarpaulins off & opened fire with its guns & torpedoes ??

This was more of a exploration of imagination. When it comes for scenarios on distrupting shipping with terrorist acts, various military organizations are kind enough to provide estimations on what is effective and what is not...

I personally think that a container ship would be the best option, as the necessary weapons could be hidden in containers, or if necessary, in a structure resembling containers. Mines would be probably the best option to distrupt shipping as even relatively simple mines could be equipped with timer to ensure simultaenous effects.

Self-supporting would be the most difficult part, but that's being done on daily basis in South-East Asia....

 

[Distiller]

Why build something? Hijack something, like a motorized dhow or a fishing vessel. Put a handful of bundled 155mm artillery grenades at the bow and ram it into the next tanker going through Malacca Straits.

 

[Jon K]

Why build something? Hijack something, like a motorized dhow or a fishing vessel. Put a handful of bundled 155mm artillery grenades at the bow and ram it into the next tanker going through Malacca Straits.

While an attack like this may cause even serious damage to ship involved (see Limburg Tanker attack), it is not likely to sink ships or to cause heavy casualties. In fact, supertankers are notoriously difficult to sink without cracking the back of the ship. An attack on the waterline of virtually any other large vessel is not likely to do any other damage than just to damage the ship (like USS Cole, which is minuscule ship by commercial standards).

By sinking ship there's the bonus effect of severing waterway (See MV Tricolor in 2003 incident, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Tricolor ). Mines also cancel the traffic until MCM effort has been done. Threat of terrorist mining has been discussed by US Mine Warfare Association among many other organizations, so it's not exactly a secret.

 

[Distiller]

Yip, old-fashioned WW1 floating mines wouldn't even be too difficult to produce and deploy.

I think a purpose-built WW2-style commerce raider like the Germans had wouldn't last too long simply because it attracts to much attention.

For sinking big ships a torpedo is probably the best way to go. Perhaps such an organization as described could manage to build torpedoes from public domain information.

 

[Sea Toby]

What was wrong with Humphrey Bogart's method in the film The African Queen?

 

[Salty Dog]

While this appears to be a good discussion topic, I'd be careful not to expound or wax lyrically on the subject. Explaining how to attack shipping, or building craft to carry out terrorist acts, is to say the least, frowned upon. :loony

Systems Adict

I agree we should not expound too much on this. However it is does have value to think about what raiders would use and how they would operate in order to counter such a threat.

Combo crew/supply boats widely used in the offshore oil services industry are readily available. These are typically 170 ft in length, carry a combo of 60 pax and 150 tons of cargo at speeds up to 30 kts. The open deck space aft can hold a variety of containerized cargo, conex boxes, etc.. From there you can use your imagination.

 

[Jon K]

Yip, old-fashioned WW1 floating mines wouldn't even be too difficult to produce and deploy.

I think a purpose-built WW2-style commerce raider like the Germans had wouldn't last too long simply because it attracts to much attention.

For sinking big ships a torpedo is probably the best way to go. Perhaps such an organization as described could manage to build torpedoes from public domain information.

The first terrorist/freedom fighter using a minisub and a mine was a guy named David Bushnell, so this has been done quite a long time ago...

Colombian drug runners construct semi-submersibles already, so I think making a torpedo with human guidance, with electric power for, say, last 200 meters, would not be that difficult.

On mines, I would guess that worst threat might not be a floating mine or moored mine, but a bottom mine with magnetic or some other influence fuze, as charge exploding below ship inflicts more damage. Any engineering student could probably fix up suitable, although not very state-of-the-art fuze using commercial supplies. And since mines can be fairly large, the explosives involved need not to be of highest quality.

There have been instances of non-state actors using naval mines, or threat of them already, as displayed by recent news quoted in Galrahn's excellent blog, and also this very illustrative US Mine Warfare Association presentation:

http://www.minwara.org/Meetings/2007_05/Presentations/W1130 Struver MINWARA May 2007.pdf

 

[contedicavour]

The worst risks we could face would be mining large harbours full of commercial traffic. Several large tankers or container ships would sink and block commerce.
Besides the USN has underestimated the MCM threat by decommissioning several still very recent MCM boats such as the Osprey class...

In a crazier and much more costly scenario, getting a hold of some pocket submarine such as the ones built by North Korea would allow to attack in crowded shipping lanes with deep waters

cheers

 

[kato]

Add to those two threats small boat swarm attacks, asymmetric air attacks by civilian aircraft and helos, IEDs in shallow waters such as harbours both on land and underwater and direct threats against port facilities - and you have the joint Northern Coasts 2007 exercise held in Germany and the Western Baltic half a year ago.

 

[Jon K]

The worst risks we could face would be mining large harbours full of commercial traffic. Several large tankers or container ships would sink and block commerce. Besides the USN has underestimated the MCM threat by decommissioning several still very recent MCM boats such as the Osprey class...

I do agree with your threat scenario, bottom mines not only damaging, but actually sinking ships, maybe even in large chokepoint harbour would be among the worst imaginable threat scenarios.

For the second point about USN, you can count me as a believer, but after seeing the demonstration material available on various UUV/AUV minehunting and elimination systems I'd go for organic minehunting capability rather than one which is tied to highly specialized, expensive and slowly deploying hulls. I think the Italian designed and built minehunters Finnish Navy has ordered will be the best minehunters ever, but perhaps the last ones ordered by a Western Navy.

In a crazier and much more costly scenario, getting a hold of some pocket submarine such as the ones built by North Korea would allow to attack in crowded shipping lanes with deep waters

If we're talking about robust non-state player like Hezbollah, I wouldn't count that one out. Hezbollah operated heavy ASM's, after all.

 

[B.Smitty]

Using torpedoes or missiles off of any large ship will quickly get that ship sunk or captured.

If any ship is tracked back to Bin Laden Construction, it will find itself used for TLAM and JDAM target practice.

I would suggest stealing or hijacking small fishing vessels and cargo ships and using them as minelayers. They have to be disposable and untraceable. Use them a few times and then scuttle or abandon them.

It doesn't really matter what kind of mine is laid. Any mine or even the threat of mining will greatly limit shipping in the area, and require costly and time consuming minehunting/sweeping.

Laying mines off of a resort area frequented by cruise ships might produce the type of despicable event Al Qaeda wants.

 

[contedicavour]

Using torpedoes or missiles off of any large ship will quickly get that ship sunk or captured.

If any ship is tracked back to Bin Laden Construction, it will find itself used for TLAM and JDAM target practice.

I would suggest stealing or hijacking small fishing vessels and cargo ships and using them as minelayers. They have to be disposable and untraceable. Use them a few time and then scuttle or abandon them.

It doesn't really matter what kind of mine is laid. Any mine or even the threat of mining will greatly limit shipping in the area, and require costly and time consuming minehunting/sweeping.

Laying mines off of a resort area frequented by cruise ships might produce the type of despicable event Al Qaeda wants.

Ouch your last idea is actually and unfortunately very smart.
Especially as there aren't many escort assets in places such as the Caribbean... :shudder

cheers

 

[kato]

Especially as there aren't many escort assets in places such as the Caribbean...

Actually there are, in the Caribbean at least. French, Dutch, US, British forces have quite some patrol/escort forces in the area. No MCM assets though at all.

 

[Grand Danois]

The USN has MCMRON 1 & 2 stationed in NS Ingleside, Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Station_Ingleside

 

[kato]

They might be stationed there (squadron 3 too), but:
- MCMRON 1 is responsible for Asian/Pacific, regularly deployed to Japan/Korea.
- MCMRON 2 are the MWC's MCM assets for deployed fleets (other than 7th and 5th)
- MCMRON 3 is permanently forward-deployed to Persian Gulf / 5th Fleet AOR.

Out of the 8 ships in MCMRON 2, there are usually one or two "operational" mine warfare group (completed GOMEX within the last 6 months), with two ships per group.

 

[Salty Dog]

There's also the US Coast Guard.

 

[lobbie111]

My suggestion, which I reckon some pirates already use are Jet Ski's with M60's (or similar) and automatic grenade launchers that can be fired from the movement controls of the craft...