The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[WillS]

Lovely new aircraft carrier, sir, but we’re fighting in the desert

Money is squandered on equipment that is useless in either Iraq or Afghanistan - or in any foreseeable theatre

Simon Jenkins

The Jenkins rant/article has already been quite effectively torn into by the people over at the British Army Rumour Service. The article was debate at a 'political football' level rather than something anyone here should take too seriously.

As for the potential closure of Devonport, having been brought up in Plymouth it makes me sad that we've come to the stage where the largest naval base in Western Europe has now become the emptiest naval base in Western Europe. But logically if you have to make a choice between Portsmouth and Plymouth, Portsmouth wins.

I wish we didn't have to make the choice.


WillS
www.boilingthefrog.co.uk

 

[riksavage]

Airfix, the model kit brand, has signed a licensing deal with the Royal Navy, which will give it access to exclusive content and non-sensitive plans and designs. More attempts by New Labour to cut costs - Airfix will begin building ships for the RN as of next year!

 

[WillS]

More attempts by New Labour to cut costs - Airfix will begin building ships for the RN as of next year!

I've yet to meet an Airfix kit that I didn't complete as a child both on time and to budget. Given this excellent record of success perhaps Airfix will be an improvement on the current set of contractors.

WillS
www.boilingthefrog.co.uk

 

[Super Nimrod]

Excellent, I should be able to build at least 5 model CVF,s and several squadrons of scale Lightnings before the UK shipyards have even cut the first piece of metal for them for real :

 

[mark22w]

I've yet to meet an Airfix kit that I didn't complete as a child both on time and to budget. Given this excellent record of success perhaps Airfix will be an improvement on the current set of contractors.

WillS
www.boilingthefrog.co.uk

..from memory there was always a part or two missing from most kits. Hmm, or was it that the kits were fitted for but not with?

 

[Super Nimrod]

nfloorl:


I wonder if a CVF kit will come with two decks so that you can swap them over depending on what that weeks RN thinking is about whether to buy the F-35B or C

 

[Sea Toby]

I agree, the carriers will continue, but there will most likely be a cut in their escorts. I wouldn't hold my breath for any more Daring class destroyers. We might see a smaller frigate design, sized similar to a FREEM added at the expense of further general purpose frigate designs. We also might see a new OPV design to supplant general purpose frigates in the Caribbean. You never know whether another white paper will result with a new government.

The key in my opinion is to keep the carrier's escort forces up, landing ships can be escorted by less capable frigates, while OPVs and/or corvettes can do patrols. Most likely a carrier task force would accompany any contested landing anyway. For peacekeeping and humanitarian missions an escort less than a Daring class destroyer is sufficient.

 

[Sea Toby]

nfloorl:


I wonder if a CVF kit will come with two decks so that you can swap them over depending on what that weeks RN thinking is about whether to buy the F-35B or C

I believe the Royal Navy is committed to the F-35B version, whereas the French are committed to a catapult version of the QE. I would think both versions would be available, whether both decks are in the same kit is another story. Airfix may decide to sale the two versions with two kits. The main difference between the two would be the ski jump and paint marking decals along with different aircrafts, the British with the Lighting IIs and the French with the Rafaels, etc.

 

[Systems Adict]

They are obviously confident Scottish independence is not going to happen for a long long time.

Then they are idiots, I believe Scottish Independence will come out very quickly, more fool them (the Scot's) as an independent Scotland would surely still need fairly large handouts from the UK to survive.

Hate to tell you guys, but small point of fact....

Scotland IS Independent !!

...That's why they have their own Parliament, & budgetary control over the majority of their finances.

They do however, still carry on paying their taxes, etc like any other citizen, which helps fund the UK Govt., who then apportion funds for them to finance Scotland.

Pretty much as it was when they weren't independent!

In follow on from that, & without getting too political; how would any British Citizens feel about levying an additional 1 penny in every pound (roughly 2 cents in 2 dollars(US)), to help finance the funds needed to fund the defence of the realm ??

Pay for those much needed equipments / materials / expensive projects that are currently being "delayed".


...& less of the Airfix patter, it's ludicrous !


...It's like McDonald's offering degrees with their fries......




Systems Adict :

 

[swerve]

Bit of news in JDW this week: the RN's future MMR (Medium Range Radar) selection, which has been narrowed down to a choice between the Thales Smart-S Mk2, the BAE Insyte ARTISAN-3D, & something from Elta, appears to have settled down on ARTISAN. Janes says the MoD is now in talks with only one of the three firms, & it's BAE Insyte.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Scotland IS Independent !!

...That's why they have their own Parliament, & budgetary control over the majority of their finances.

So does that mean Taiwan is independent of China? They do all that and have a lot more. Scotland isn't a member of the WTO, IOC, etc.

The problem with Scotland is that its rights are fully devolved from London, not due to Scots asserting themselves. Scotland's laws assert this, so it isn't independent - it is still reliant on the rest of the UK.

 

[Systems Adict]

So does that mean Taiwan is independent of China? They do all that and have a lot more. Scotland isn't a member of the WTO, IOC, etc.

The problem with Scotland is that its rights are fully devolved from London, not due to Scots asserting themselves. Scotland's laws assert this, so it isn't independent - it is still reliant on the rest of the UK.

...& you point is caller ??

As the rest of the UK is dependant on the taxes & revenues that Scotland puts into the Govt coffers ! (think of the Oil from the North sea fields...).


While, I'd agree with some of your comments, It is enough for Scots like myself, to be in the situation we're in. After all, did the Welsh not do the same thing ??

Anyways, not going to argue, as this is more POLITICAL than MILITARY !

Scotland, England, Ireland & Wales should really strengthen the union of the Nation to makes us GREAT Britian / UNITED Kingdom again, rather than bicker like kids !

So to get back to previous comments...

Do you think that you, amongst others, could stomach 1 penny in the pound tax hike to fund all the underfunding that our Military has had to deal with over the last 25 years, to pay for all the kit we need now & over the next 10 years ??



Answer that question, before we go into the symantics about whether the Scots are devolved from Westminster...



Systems Adict :

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

...& you point is caller ?

I point is caller? What does that mean? Is that Ali-G speak?

As the rest of the UK is dependant on the taxes & revenues that Scotland puts into the Govt coffers !

No it isn't. Scotland gets heavy subsidies that more than compensates for any oil it gets. When Scots complain about oil they always conveniently forget they get loads of benefits that other Britons don't.

After all, did the Welsh not do the same thing ??

Do what same thing?

Do you think that you, amongst others, could stomach 1 penny in the pound tax hike to fund all the underfunding that our Military has had to deal with over the last 25 years, to pay for all the kit we need now & over the next 10 years ??

Taxes have gone up by loads - the problem is that money is wasted at the moment. If NHS spending increases more slowly that will more than pay for the military short-fall.

 

[Alpha Epsilon]

Oh my, how anyone could think Scotland was independent, there are a lot of important things (defence, foreign policy, immigration, energy, markets, competition, fiscal policy, etc...) that aren't devolved and you really should know that. And of course Westminster remains sovereign and can at any time overrule Holyrood, even on devolved matters. Though both agreed that Westminster would normally not do that without agreement from Holyrood. Saying Scotland is independent is ridiculous, it isn't more independent than London really.

But I agree that there shouldn't be bickering, in the end I'm a Unionist.

 

[swerve]

I'm resisting the temptation to join in this debate on the Scottish economy & instead reminding you that interesting though it is, it's off-topic.


BTW, I suggest checking some figures at http://www.statistics.gov.uk/ - e.g.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/gva1207.pdf


Does anyone want to talk about the Navy? I see nobody's expressed an opinion on the JDW report about ARTISAN yet.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Does anyone want to talk about the Navy? I see nobody's expressed an opinion on the JDW report about ARTISAN yet.

I haven't read much about the MMR. Is it planned for use on on future escort classes or even upgrading the existing Type 23s?

 

[riksavage]

Spot of good news out of the gloom - Defence Minister Baroness Taylor today, 29 February 2008, visited the BAE Systems shipyards in Glasgow to mark the cutting of steel for the Royal Navy's sixth Type 45 Destroyer, Duncan.

 

[windscorpion]

Also it appears Devonport isn't going to close after all.

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/dis...me=yes&more_nodeId1=232470&contentPK=20008664

Controversial claims that the Westcountry's historic naval base is to close in five years have been dismissed as "ill-informed" and "inaccurate" by the commander of the Plymouth facility.

With the Ministry of Defence's (MoD) backing, Commodore Simon Lister yesterday moved to "allay public concerns" by insisting that the Government had no plans to shut Devonport, Britain's oldest naval base.

He condemned claims made by senior defence sources that the city's nuclear capabilities were soon to be "irrelevant", and pointed to a workload at the naval base and neighbouring dockyard that could stretch to the end of the next decade and beyond...

 

[Systems Adict]

I point is caller? What does that mean? Is that Ali-G speak?

The Joys of typing while half asleep, & on a PC that doesn't allow you to download & install the free spell checker that comes with these facilities...

It wasn't an Ali-G comment. You obviously don't listen to any of the radio show phone ins here in the UK, It's a standard reply to try & get the caller to focus.

The Phrase is...

"...& YOUR point is caller ??"


As for the Welsh, have they not already followed the Scots by having a "devolved" Welsh Assembly, their own Parliament ??



Getting back to topics at hand...

The Artisan MMR, is it a case of just replacing the Antenna & some of the processing modules, or is it a complete rip-out & reinstall ?

I ask the question, as in size & shape (from my knowledge of 996 & the pictures on BAE's own website), it looks of comparable/identical size to 996.

 

[Systems Adict]

I'm resisting the temptation to join in this debate on the Scottish economy & instead reminding you that interesting though it is, it's off-topic.

BTW, I suggest checking some figures at ...http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/gva1207.pdf

I KNOW that this is WAY off Topic, added to a double posting, but gotta say, that I LOVE the 1st column of the table on the 1st page that states Scotland's GVA is MORE than Wales & N Ireland, as well as the South West & West Midlands.

Not bad for an area that only has 8.1% of the total UK Population !

Systems Adict :nutkick


PS, Promise this will be the last posted reply on the geo-political state of Scotland. I'll PM any comments on THIS subject from now on....