what about the airdefence systems of pak army
- Thread starter Rashid
- Start date
What about it? Whats your opinion? What do you want people to discuss?
Read this as well:
http://defencetalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2274
Read this as well:
http://defencetalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2274
yasin_khan
New Member
Is AAA is adequet for PA Self Defence? :roll
mysterious
New Member
AAA were useful during Kargil as they were already on high ground, but for low lying areas, the Pakistani Army really needs backing from a reliable SAM system with a good range and efficiency. Anza Mk-I and II are good but I'm awaiting for Mk-III to see how much more the range would've been improved up on by the time it becomes operational. :smokingc:
What pakistan needs is major air defences. Anzas and guns won,t halt an attack from an airforce like indias or the US.
We need long range SAMS in high numbers with long range radars.
HAWKS, PATRlOTS... things in this league. That would stop indias top guns, high alltitude planes, bombers and even missiles etc.
Ever heard of a stinger or man pad bringing down a B52.
Missiles with ranges of 5 to 150 miles should be seriously considered and in large quantities.
Pakistans problem has always been minimum detterence, while the indians have a force capable of a full scale invasion.
Therefore our minimum detterence should be that we have the capability of totally anhilating the attackers.
Our defences should be such that if any indian planes crossed the border no matter how many in number, we should have the ability to overwhelm them.
Man-pads and AA-Guns should be a secondry backup to deal with any fighters that may have sneaked through.
Anzas are a step in the right direction but not the answer.
We need long range SAMS in high numbers with long range radars.
HAWKS, PATRlOTS... things in this league. That would stop indias top guns, high alltitude planes, bombers and even missiles etc.
Ever heard of a stinger or man pad bringing down a B52.
Missiles with ranges of 5 to 150 miles should be seriously considered and in large quantities.
Pakistans problem has always been minimum detterence, while the indians have a force capable of a full scale invasion.
Therefore our minimum detterence should be that we have the capability of totally anhilating the attackers.
Our defences should be such that if any indian planes crossed the border no matter how many in number, we should have the ability to overwhelm them.
Man-pads and AA-Guns should be a secondry backup to deal with any fighters that may have sneaked through.
Anzas are a step in the right direction but not the answer.
mysterious
New Member
Rightly said Muslim282! You just took the words right out of my mouth. I think it should be very clear to others what you've said and people in Pakistan's decision making heirarchy should realize that MANPADS and AA guns wont be enough as they should always be a secondary/backup thing. Its not rocket science to see that a good and respectable air defence mechanism works best when there are enough long-ranged SAMs with equally efficient and long-range radars woven in to a highly reliable network to act together as a brutal force towards any aggressive force(s). :smokingc:
AAA is very effective against ultra low flying targets, even more effective than SAM in some cases(Most SAM cannot engage target below 20 meters).
Pakistan did adapt China's QW-1 shoulder fired air defence missiles, and designated it Anza MK2. It is able to engage enemy helicopters and slow flying aircraft from all aspects up to 3.5km in altitude and 6km in range.
For more info check the links below
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airdefence/hq61a.asp
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/qw-1.htm
Also Pakistan army has expressed interest in obtaining the Type-95 Self-propelled air defence system.
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/aaa/25spaaa.asp
Pakistan did adapt China's QW-1 shoulder fired air defence missiles, and designated it Anza MK2. It is able to engage enemy helicopters and slow flying aircraft from all aspects up to 3.5km in altitude and 6km in range.
For more info check the links below
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airdefence/hq61a.asp
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/qw-1.htm
Also Pakistan army has expressed interest in obtaining the Type-95 Self-propelled air defence system.
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/aaa/25spaaa.asp
Long range SAM,s, l don,t think alot of people understand their worth.
Let me explain: Fighters take off from Ambala airbase in india heading towards the pakistan, punjab border. If we had long range radars we can detect and monitor their flight plans deep inside india. WE launch long range SAM,s once they are within range. It would be a turkey shoot even before they got into pakistan and tested our second line of defence.
Small arms fire (including man pads) is only good as a secondry form of defence. The whole aim of airdefence should be that the enemy is not allowed to test your secondry defence.
At the same time the anza missile is evolving well at the hands of the pakistani scientists. Was it not an anza mk2 that brought down an indian jet fighter in kargill.
Let me explain: Fighters take off from Ambala airbase in india heading towards the pakistan, punjab border. If we had long range radars we can detect and monitor their flight plans deep inside india. WE launch long range SAM,s once they are within range. It would be a turkey shoot even before they got into pakistan and tested our second line of defence.
Small arms fire (including man pads) is only good as a secondry form of defence. The whole aim of airdefence should be that the enemy is not allowed to test your secondry defence.
At the same time the anza missile is evolving well at the hands of the pakistani scientists. Was it not an anza mk2 that brought down an indian jet fighter in kargill.
India can already see 400km into the Pakistani border by running Il-76 AWACs racetracks inside India.
That means that any missile that can be air launched and is long range can be targetted at static targets within Pakistan - that is the power and advantage that AWACs can provide. AWACs such as Phalcon are also capable of tracking ground targets - they are not only air battle management systems.
Any tactical standoff system with a 200-400k range becomes a useful tool to start isolating assets - and the principle detector is safe.
indias AWACs
have no significant effect on the defences of pakistan, SAM batteries are easily transportable and moveable hence detection of these is not a great danger.
My friend if pakistan was to aquire a SAM with a range of 150+ km, the AWACs themselves would be in missile range and hence would not be able to use their full radar range of 400+ km into pakistan territory.
Again let me emphasise that the problem is the jet fighters and high altitude interceptors and reconnacence planes, these would form the back bone of the assault, and it is these we would need to bring down.
The AWACS is a good platform for informing about targets and approaching enemies, but l,m pretty sure that once your in the range and have been locked onto by a missile such as the patriot or hawk, The AWACS could do very little for you.
Also l don,t think theirs long to go before pakistan aquires its own AWACS..
have no significant effect on the defences of pakistan, SAM batteries are easily transportable and moveable hence detection of these is not a great danger.
My friend if pakistan was to aquire a SAM with a range of 150+ km, the AWACs themselves would be in missile range and hence would not be able to use their full radar range of 400+ km into pakistan territory.
Again let me emphasise that the problem is the jet fighters and high altitude interceptors and reconnacence planes, these would form the back bone of the assault, and it is these we would need to bring down.
The AWACS is a good platform for informing about targets and approaching enemies, but l,m pretty sure that once your in the range and have been locked onto by a missile such as the patriot or hawk, The AWACS could do very little for you.
Also l don,t think theirs long to go before pakistan aquires its own AWACS..
bringing down interceptors is the airforces job. However an airdefence would be great for PAF and army. a few hundred battries and long range SAMS would do the job. and as for the AWACs. well if war breaks out then the PAF should make that a prime target because if thats gone then the IAf would fall big time. :smokingc:
Well, I hope you aren't an accountant.muslim282 said:
Any air battle management system that has a range of 400+km, operating under the protection of it's own localised ADS is always going to have the advantage against a mobile SAM system that has less than 1/2 the effective intercept range.You can shift that mobile SAM as much as you like - but unless it's mobile at greater than 850-950kph, it will actually never be able to close the intercept gap.
The whole idea of the ABMS is to find assets like the OPFOR ADS network and to vector suppression onto that asset.
There are only a few ways to kill off a 950kph AWACs, and using a 150km ranged SAM system isn't high on the capability list to do the job.
You're assuming that the AWACs pilot is a moron if you think that the pilot is going to bring his platform into the range of a PAC3/Arrow/S300 etc....
S-400 should be able to present a significant amount of threat to AWACS aircraft. Russians claim that the missle has the range of 400km.
the trouble is,who is going to give pakistan these long range SAMs.there are only a handful of choices in really effective long range SAM systems.chinese doesnt have enough s-300s for themselves so it will be sometime before they can sell pakistan anything substantial.as of now,the most probable long shot is the US patriot.
China is already producing local copies of S-300, it's called HQ-15, naval version is HQ-9 which has already been installed on DDG 170. But China does not plan to market this missile in the near future.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airdefence/s300.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airdefence/s300.asp