War on Terrorism and Capturing Ossama bin Laden
- Thread starter tomahawk6
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so you think that Pakistan is not taking the problem seriously??seems totally different to a person who is sitting in Pakistan (like me) rather then the one commenting from some far landstomahawk6 said:
you should google and just find the number of Pak army personnels who died in war on terrorism. We have secrificed more then nato did and i hear from you sir that the problem hasnt been taken seriously in Pakistan. Well mayb Nato should man almost 2000kms long border properly, i mean afterall taliban inseregents as per western sources cross the border INTO afghanistan & then succeed going back. you can blame Pakistan for letting them entry, tell me who helps them come back from Afghanistan into Pakistan?you need two to clap
As for Indian invovlement in Afghanistan, Pakistan aint too happy with their embassy too near to Pakistan, having forces on eastern border will only create more tensions btw Pak & india and i know world is more intelligent then to do that and let afghanistan go to dogs (if infact it can get even more worse).
We only accepted the taliban regime during the post cold war era because Pakistan cant afford to have hostilities on both of her borders especially when the western border is soo porous. And we supported them even when they were becoming a liability to our internal security.
We should look at the faults thats been done while this on going war on terrorism and learn from them rather then playing the blame game coz it wont help us.hope u didnt mind any comment of mine.
I find Mushareef's unwillingness to engage disturbing.rabirizvi said:
http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/1913
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Pakistan has deployed over 80,000 troops along its western border, 2nd largest deployement of troops by a single country after USA in war against terror... US only has 12,000 in Afghanistan, the true place for war on terrorism.tomahawk6 said:
Even with that deployment, NATO is still suffering and having very hard time dealing with taliban/al-qaeda elements.
Big-E Pak army has been engaged with taliban and Al-qaeeda in that perticular hostile terrain with all its available resources that it has and its also the reason Pak army had soo many casualties there. I mean they didnt die in their beds in barracks did they. they died serving their country and its kinda an insult to them to say that though they sacrificied their life but yet didnt do "ENOUGH" and i think of all the people you can understand it the most.Big-E said:
The problem with this area is that same tribes are on the opposite sides of the border, add to it the type of terrain, making it porous as these tribes never accepted these borders in true essence.
Pakistan afta using the force saw that it cant completly stop the infiltration and also Pakistan cant go bombing its own people because there is a fear of common innocent people (Pakistanis), so the agreement was signed with the tribal elders to stop these infiltrators from crossing the border. IF and i am sure they wont stop the hammer will again only fall.
Also i think (and its only my guess )Pakistan is trying to solve Baluchistan problem and wanted to have only one front at a time before they can deal with these tribal areas
Give me Osama, then they will have done "ENOUGH"rabirizvi said:
I'm not going to be dragged into cheap shots... I said nothing of Pakistani warfighters, just the leadership. For all those that espouse feelings of anti-US policy do not offend me because it is directed at the president, not myself. The same is the case here and I would appreciate if you would recognize that.
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I hope he gets caught sooner then later but taliban problem wont die with him, they are different and have relatives in tribal areas on both sides of border so some people do support them on both sides and it makes the job tougher.unlike Al-qaeeda which was/is mostly foreign to this land. I fear Pakistan and Nato will have to fight taliban much long after the Al qaeeda is dealt with
by his sptember 9/11 exploits osama has created a halo of invincibility and omnipresence about himself,if pakistan can capture him,it would be the biggest blow to the morale of the islamic terror groups including the taliban,and if the pakistani governement can achieve that ,then they would be the most appreciated nation in the world,besides reducing their own internal problems considerably they will also have a better alliance with the usa.
Maybe, we should be asking that of our President. No body knows where Ossamah is and if he is in Pakistan, they will arrest him just like they did with 1000s of other Al-Qaeda operatives.Big-E said:
If you go through the past 5 years, Pakistan has done more than other countries:
- More arrests
- The arrests of TOP al-Qaeda leaders were made by Pakistan
- More troops deployed for anti-terrorism activities, the largest against Al-Qaeda and Taliban, the people we SHOULD be fighting.
- More resources allocated to help security forces do their job
- Because of its unconditional support for war on terror, Pakistan has had its share of terrorist acts by Al-Qaeda and other copy-cat groups.
- Pakistan had to deal with troops deployment on its eastern border (india, 2003) while it had almost 20% of troops fighting on western border
- Dealt with some Political and social unrest due to the operations
- Without Pakistani support and appreciation of Pakistani support, the war on terrorism is as dead as a door nail.
- When history repeats its self in Afghanistan, it is Pakistan which is at the frontlines, again.
As long as we Americans don't support and appreciate the people and countries that are supporting us in war against terror, this thing will get no where.
For a moment, please forget about the rhetorics that such and such country/ individual is not doing enough.
We are fed up with the statements like
(a) NATO should increase its force deployment.
(b) Hamid Karzai pointing towards Pakistan, on a regular basis, on different issues/ happenings in Afghanistan and the subsequent rebuttal from Pakistan and shifting the blame to the Indian consulates working on Afghan soil, and engaged in anti-Pakistan activities etc. And India blaming Pakistan on bomb blasts on her soil, and other terrorist activities.
The point is, instead of accusing and confusing each other on Al-qaida or Osama, we seriously need to think on:
Do the USA really want to get Osama???
We are fed up with the statements like
(a) NATO should increase its force deployment.
(b) Hamid Karzai pointing towards Pakistan, on a regular basis, on different issues/ happenings in Afghanistan and the subsequent rebuttal from Pakistan and shifting the blame to the Indian consulates working on Afghan soil, and engaged in anti-Pakistan activities etc. And India blaming Pakistan on bomb blasts on her soil, and other terrorist activities.
The point is, instead of accusing and confusing each other on Al-qaida or Osama, we seriously need to think on:
Do the USA really want to get Osama???
I'd say we've expended enough ordinance on his suspected rat holes to have answered that question already. That, and weve hunted down, or blown up, enough of the upper echelon of Al Qaeda, with the help of Pakistan, to have proved we want his head on a spike. To suggest otherwise is to spread "that part of the world" conspiracy theories. What was the last one? "The Jews blew up the WTC to further their world takeover plans"?
Musharraf is in a very precarious position and the last thing he needs is a civil war coming out of his tribal lands. If we locate Osama we better be able to kill him because aiming missiles at Pakistani territory doesn't play well over there and Musharraf cant survive to many of those incursions into their sovereignty. And eventually we'll run out of advanced destroyers to smooth them out with.
And the big picture?? We will eventually win the war on terror but none of us will be alive to see it. Thats how long its going to go on so we'd better get used to it.
It's not up to the US. It's up to Pakistan. We can't violate her territorial sovereignty. That's the only way we could be sure to catch Osama so you can't blame not catching him on US shoulders. It rests soley on the country he is in. I doubt if anyone who is reasonable will state that he is anywhere else.WAR said:
And what proof do we have that he is in Pakistan? He is not Pakistan's problem, he is problem for the whole world. EU/NATO (knowing the fact that they can't even come upwith 15,000 troops for a peace keeping mission in leb.) need to come up with more troops along with USA for Afghanistan to catch the problem they helped to create, which was then left for Pakistan to deal with.Big-E said:
As of now for us, the Iraq war is more important than Al-Qaeda or its leadership.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
EU/NATO was only asked for 10,000 fror Lebanon and will provide minimum 7,000 soldiers and perhaps a thousand more. Add to that 2,600 sailors in the naval component.WebMaster said:
EU/NATO still have significant numbers in Bosnia/Kosovo/Congo. Almost 20,000 in Afghanistan and a large number in Iraq...
EU/NATO is also in a transition from the massed armies of the Cold War to a more extrovert military. This is only beginning to get in place...
WebMaster said:
"The latest video release from al Qaeda, shown Thursday, reinforces the
general presumption that the world's most famous fugitive has carved out a lair for himself in the mountains between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
In it, you see the al Qaeda leader pick his way down boulder-strewn slopes, smile serenely to the 9/11 plotters, and address his followers inside a simple tent.
The border area is certainly lush with places to hide, and Pakistan's volatile tribal belt offers the added benefit of being off limits to American troops and intelligence agents."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2410569&page=2
Thats why I think he's still there. His own videos show it.
Honestly I see NATOs presence as a gift rather than an obligation. NATO stands for North Atlantic... not Central Asian treaty organization.
Pakistan on the otherhand contains in her borders that which needs to be fought. I appreciate all the efforts they have taken but I see it as a duty for themselves to undertake. If they cannot combat them then border incursions will be necessary. The last thing we want is to violate Pakistan's territorial sovereignty to pursue Al-Queda. Up until now they have been doing a good job, but the peace treaty between the Taliban and Mushareef is unacceptable in my view.
"mountains between Pakistan and Afghanistan..."
How does that translate into him being in Pakistan? Have you seen border between Afghanistan and Pakistan? What does it look like? Is it police-able? Catching/capturing Ossamah is not a Pakistan only job, he is considered a threat for everybody. If Pakistan can find him or know where he is, they would get him just like 1000s of other Al-Qaeda arrested by Pakistan which apparently went unnoticed.
How does that translate into him being in Pakistan? Have you seen border between Afghanistan and Pakistan? What does it look like? Is it police-able? Catching/capturing Ossamah is not a Pakistan only job, he is considered a threat for everybody. If Pakistan can find him or know where he is, they would get him just like 1000s of other Al-Qaeda arrested by Pakistan which apparently went unnoticed.