USCG Hamilton 715 future

[Thunderbird]

Soy Fernando de Uruguay.
Me gustaría averiguar si saben algo acerca de lo que aquí en Uruguay se comenta sobre el destino del buque de la guardia costera Hamilton 715. Parece que nuestro gobierno está haciendo negociaciones con el gobierno de EEUU para comprar a precio de amigos dicho barco.
Gracias

 

[AegisFC]

Soy Fernando de Uruguay.
Me gustaría averiguar si saben algo acerca de lo que aquí en Uruguay se comenta sobre el destino del buque de la guardia costera Hamilton 715. Parece que nuestro gobierno está haciendo negociaciones con el gobierno de EEUU para comprar a precio de amigos dicho barco.
Gracias

Welcome to Defence Talk.

While this is an international forum the forum language is English so please post in that. Also you are asking about the USCG Hamilton, that belongs in the Navy section.

While the Hamilton is a useful ship it is also old and probably worn out.

 

[Sea Toby]

I haven't translated the post, but I would assume Uruguay may have leased/purchased the Hamiliton with a FMS hot transfer. The USCG does maintain their cutters and they are in good working order. I am sure Uruguay could operate these ships after another refit for another ten or more years... More Hamilton's will be available for hot transfer too as the Bertholf class are commissioned into the USCG. Uruguay may lease.purchase an extra one to be used for spares as well... And I am sure the price will be cheap...

I would think for Uruguay these cutters will be a good investment...

 

[Sea Toby]

The USCG will be decommissioning four of the Hamiltons, 378 foot class, during FT 2011.... During the FY 2011 the fifth out of eight Bertholfs will be appropritated. Two Bertholfs have already been commissioned by May 2010...

 

[Thunderbird]

Soy Fernando de Uruguay.
Me gustaría averiguar si saben algo acerca de lo que aquí en Uruguay se comenta sobre el destino del buque de la guardia costera Hamilton 715. Parece que nuestro gobierno está haciendo negociaciones con el gobierno de EEUU para comprar a precio de amigos dicho barco.
Gracias

English version:
I'm Fernando de Uruguay.
I would like to find out if they know anything about what is discussed here in Uruguay on the fate of the Coast Guard vessel Hamilton 715. It seems our government is doing negotiations with the U.S. government to buy at the friends that vessel.
Thanks

 

[Thunderbird]

So you are saying, then it is almost certain to come the ship Hamilton 715 to Uruguay of the U.S. Coast Guard.
In our country we need new ships, but the Navy prefers type frigates Bremen. Are needed to patrol territorial waters that spread to Uruguay more than twice what we had.
That ship is interesting here for its ability to transport a helicopter, its capacity (3500 tonnes) and the propulsive gas.
Although poor weapons.
Joao Belo frigates with which we were built in 1964 and reach for the patrol.
Maybe this year we can get this ship here, as it appears the negotiations are well advanced.
Do not know how is the situation with the S-3 Vikings asked for our Navy and were discharged in 2007.

Saludos

 

[Sea Toby]

So you are saying, then it is almost certain to come the ship Hamilton 715 to Uruguay of the U.S. Coast Guard.
In our country we need new ships, but the Navy prefers type frigates Bremen. Are needed to patrol territorial waters that spread to Uruguay more than twice what we had.
That ship is interesting here for its ability to transport a helicopter, its capacity (3500 tonnes) and the propulsive gas.
Although poor weapons.
Joao Belo frigates with which we were built in 1964 and reach for the patrol.
Maybe this year we can get this ship here, as it appears the negotiations are well advanced.
Do not know how is the situation with the S-3 Vikings asked for our Navy and were discharged in 2007.

Saludos

The Hamiltons have Fairbanks Morse diesel engines for economical speeds and Pratt & Whitney gas turbines for flank speed.in a CODAG arrangement. In Uruguay service they will operate mostly with their diesels. They were FRAMed during the late 1980s and are in good working order as I have noted before. Yes, the ships are old, although not obsolete. The USCG are still operating them, and have been their most valued cutters. I am sure Uruguay could get a FMS hot transfer for the price of another refit... Four of the twelve are being decommissioned during the next fiscal year which starts in October.

I would think it wise for Uruguay to fund the refits for a few ships they plan to operate and not fund a refit of another one for spare parts. Considering Uruguay's coast guard type navy, they would make excellent replacements for an unbelievable price, really an upgrade over the ships they currently operate...

The Hamiltons don't have any missiles, but they do have a 76-mm gun, a 20-mm CIWS, and two 25-mm Bushmaster chain guns. The USCG operates all but one in the Pacific doing long range fishery patrols as far from the US west coast as the Bering Sea off Alaska especially during the Alaskan King Crab season... If they are good enough for the Bering Sea they will be good enough off the coast of Uruguay...

They should be good enough to last for another fifteen years or so, and if Uruguay played their cards right the Famous Class of USCG cutters should then be available later... After the Bertholfs have replaced the Hamiltons in US service, a newer class of OPCs will be built to replace the Resolutions and Famous class cutters in US service. I am sure the Famous class would be the next ships Uruguay may want in the future..

 

[StevoJH]

The problem in my eyes is that the Hamilton class ships are not considerably newer then the Current Uraguay Navy frigates, which all date from the 1960's and of which two only entered service with Uraguay in 2007 after being purchased from Portugal.

In my opinion Uraguay would be better off with something like HMS Clyde, BAMS or the RNZN Protector class OPV's. Not only would they be cheaper to run, with a smaller crew and a lower maintenance requirement, but they could get 30 or so years of service out of them rather then the 5-10 they could probably get out of the 43 year old USCGC Hamilton.

 

[Thunderbird]

The press here in Uruguay reported that the Navy is interested in buying the ship Hamilton 715 of the USGC.

Also discussed that the ship is capable anti submarines. This information I have not found anywhere.

But you can give this boat with anti submarine capabilities?

Thanks
Regards

 

[Sea Toby]

Her sonar was removed during the early 90s when they were FRAMed. The USCG got out of the ASW business leaving that role for the navy. But one could add a sonar, sonar arrays, torpedo tubes, ASW helicopter, etc.

 

[Sea Toby]

The problem in my eyes is that the Hamilton class ships are not considerably newer then the Current Uraguay Navy frigates, which all date from the 1960's and of which two only entered service with Uraguay in 2007 after being purchased from Portugal.

In my opinion Uraguay would be better off with something like HMS Clyde, BAMS or the RNZN Protector class OPV's. Not only would they be cheaper to run, with a smaller crew and a lower maintenance requirement, but they could get 30 or so years of service out of them rather then the 5-10 they could probably get out of the 43 year old USCGC Hamilton.

I would agree for most nations, but Uruguay is poorer than New Zealand with about the same population... Uruguay can't afford a new vessel... They could easily get FFG-07s alike Pakistan, but they want a vessel which will cost less to operate... And in the long run if they do require a self defense missile system, the rather cheap SeaRam upgrade of the Hamilton's Phalanx CIWS will be more than enough for Uruguay...

If the SeaRam is good enough for the US Navy's one version of the LCS, its good enough for Uruguay and the Hamilton class cutters...

 

[StevoJH]

I would agree for most nations, but Uruguay is poorer than New Zealand with about the same population... Uruguay can't afford a new vessel... They could easily get FFG-07s alike Pakistan, but they want a vessel which will cost less to operate... And in the long run if they do require a self defense missile system, the rather cheap SeaRam upgrade of the Hamilton's Phalanx CIWS will be more than enough for Uruguay...

If the SeaRam is good enough for the US Navy's one version of the LCS, its good enough for Uruguay and the Hamilton class cutters...

Lease it from BAe or another defense contractor like the RN does the River/Clyde class then. With an option to purchase in 5-10 years time.

The 36 crew, two diesel engine HMS Clyde would surely be cheaper to operate then the 167 crew, two diesel and two gas turbine USCGC Hamilton. Especially when you add in the age of Hamilton.

If leasing isnt an option, make a finance arrangement with the country of origin. 100 Million or so would be peanuts for any of the countries that could be candidates for supply of OPV's.

 

[Sea Toby]

If leasing isnt an option, make a finance arrangement with the country of origin. 100 Million or so would be peanuts for any of the countries that could be candidates for supply of OPV's.

One hundred million is one hundred million too much! Uruguay will get these cutters for nothing. The US will most likely pay for the refit as well through its FMS program. What some consider junk can be seen by others as treasures....

The much larger Pakistan has a similar arrangement with the FFG-07s. The US gives the ships away, and pays for one more round of refits. The key is the refit must be done at a US shipyard. America consider this program as a jobs program, while the other nations see this program as a ship upgrade...

Otherwise the US would most likely scrap or sink the decommissioned paid off ships... Uruguay could have chosen FFG-07s but preferred the Hamilton cutters instead...

Lease new ships indeed. Who wants to lease ships they can not afford when they can get old ships in good working order for free? Uruguay could buy them for peanuts, all they would have to do is outbid the scrappers, but they have enough problems paying for their operations...

As someone else noted above, Uruaguay is going to have to spend some funds upgrading the ships with ASW gear, most likely second hand for peanuts... Or they may transfer their ASW gear they have on hand to these ships...

 

[Thunderbird]

Dear Forum members.
If Hamilton 715 comes to Uruguay through an agreement FMS, where reforms and adjustment made in astilleron Americans? I would comment that he could do for little money.

Remember that the two frigates that have Uruguay Joao Velo cost only 13 million dollars. I do not believe in one boat is going to invest more than US$ 10 million.

On the other hand commented that it is confirmed that the Uruguayan territorial waters will increase to 350 miles. The idea is that the army protects, and patrolling those waters which are actually more extensive than the land area of the country. Some politicians are already talking about expanding the budget of the army for such purposes, and that today is equipped as it is impossible to make. The arrival of Hamilton may be framed in this re-structure.

Thank you.

Regards

 

[Sea Toby]

Keep in mind population figures. Brazil 192 million, Uruguay 3.5 million. Huge difference, Uruguay has less population than New Zealand. The Hamilton class cutters will serve their purposes for a price which can't be beat...

 

[StevoJH]

Keep in mind population figures. Brazil 192 million, Uruguay 3.5 million. Huge difference, Uruguay has less population than New Zealand. The Hamilton class cutters will serve their purposes for a price which can't be beat...

I just had a quick google, I had no idea Uraguay has such a low GDP, I knew they had roughly the same population as say New Zealand or the Irish Republic, I simply assumed they would have a roughly comparable GDP.

 

[Sea Toby]

Most likely in fifteen to twenty years they will be able to upgrade their Hamilitons to Famous(Bear) class cutters... In about that time frame the USCG will be replacing them with their new OPCs after replacing the Resolution class cutters...

I know most nations would have chosen Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates alike Pakistan with US FMS hot transfers... But Uruguay, not the US chose Hamiltons... And for their needs rightly so...

Different strokes for different folks...

 

[StevoJH]

Most likely in fifteen to twenty years they will be able to upgrade their Hamilitons to Famous(Bear) class cutters... In about that time frame the USCG will be replacing them with their new OPCs after replacing the Resolution class cutters...

I know most nations would have chosen Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates alike Pakistan with US FMS hot transfers... But Uruguay, not the US chose Hamiltons... And for their needs rightly so...

Different strokes for different folks...

Both are overkill for their needs.

And as I stated before, with their large crews and fuel heavy turbine engines, they would not be cheap to maintain and operate. If Bangladesh hadnt already grabbed them, the Castle class with their Diesel only powerplants may have been a better option.

 

[Thunderbird]

As before in Uruguay dje expected German Bremen class frigates.
Mainly for its ability to carry helicopters and because it would be a great avancetecnológico with respect to the Velo Joao we currently have.
Now it seems to be agreed with the government of EE.UU.por Hamilton, to meet demanding requirements for patrolling the territorial sea.

We do not know is that conditions will come, that weapons will ask for and that is what can be added.

For maintenance, there are resources, sometimes what is missing in this country is political will to invest in defense equipment.

There is also a request from the National Navy S-3 Viking aircraft and Mentor T -34. The S-3 would be for maritime patrol and the t-34 as entrenaor here has been very successful., But the number of planes, and the time it was sent and at what price, we know nothing

 

[Sea Toby]

Both are overkill for their needs.

And as I stated before, with their large crews and fuel heavy turbine engines, they would not be cheap to maintain and operate. If Bangladesh hadnt already grabbed them, the Castle class with their Diesel only powerplants may have been a better option.

Both, yes only two were built, were sold to Bangladesh, another poor country desiring hand be downs alike Uruguay. Since they are off the market, Uruguay has no choice but to accept hand be down Hamiltons....

While I may agree with you the Castles may have been a better choice, NONE are available... Since these will most likely be their only surface combatants considering the size of their naval personnel, they won't have any problems manning the ships...

Again, I repeat, Uruguay chose the Hamiltons... Its their choice to make... The Castles would have cost them some funds, they will get the Hamiltons for NOTHING! FREE!
Plus they don't have to use the gas turbines. For slow constable patrol work they can use their economical diesels... Yes diesels...Fairbanks Morse diesels, very commonly found in diesel locomotives graveyards throughout America. Spares will be dirt cheap...

Enough said...