US 'to Modernize Polish Military'

[mysterious]

US 'to Modernize Polish Military'

The US has agreed to help modernise Poland's military as part of a deal to base 10 missile defence interceptors on Polish soil.

President George W Bush made the promise during talks with Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk in Washington.

Before the meeting, Mr Tusk said the US anti-missile system, which has angered Russia, would reduce Poland's security.

Mr Bush says the shield will guard against possible attacks by "rogue states", such as Iran or North Korea.

"There is a commitment to a system that respects Poland's sovereignty and that will ensure that the people of Poland will not be subjected to any undue security risks," said Mr Bush after the meeting.

"We just want to assure people that [the missile defence shield] is necessary and at the same time there will be this modernisation effort that will take place", he added.

'Rogue state' defence

The US opened negotiations last year with the previous Polish government of Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, a strong backer of the US proposals.

But Mr Tusk's government, which came to power in November, has argued that Poland should get some reward for allowing the US missiles to be based in the country.

It wants anti-aircraft missiles - such as the US Patriot, which was used to shoot down Iraqi Scud missiles in the 1991 Gulf War - in return.

Russia's outgoing President Vladimir Putin has condemned the plans to include Poland and the neighbouring Czech Republic in its proposed missile shield.

An associated radar system could be based in the Czech Republic. "The Americans know our expectations and their understanding of Polish expectations is slowly taking a very promising shape," Mr Tusk told Polish news agency PAP before flying to the US.

The two leaders are also thought to have discussed further Nato involvement in military missions in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Polish troops took part in the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, and a multinational division in the south of the country is commanded by Polish forces - though the Poles intend to withdraw their troops by October.

Mr Tusk is also expected to meet UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7287843.stm


If basing Missile Interceptors on Polish soil was cause for concern for the Kremlin; the 'modernization' of Polish forces with U.S. equipment would be akin to adding salt to wounds. It remains to be seen what, if any, distinct approach to this issues does the new Russian President takes.

 

[swerve]

"Modernisation" with US equipment . . . Are they going to scrap their new Finnish armoured vehicles, their secondhand but still good German tanks, their Spanish transport aircraft, & all their other new(ish) stuff?

 

[kato]

Well, they still need:

- a modern air-defense missile system (read: Patriot)
- potentially upgrades for their two OHPs
- missiles for these frigates
- missiles for their F-16

By some rumours, the Army wants Apaches and Black Hawks replacing their Mi-2/-8/-17/-24.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Turkish army did this and in the end it did not help, because instead on trying to rely on themselves to develop weapons they just got them from U.S, after the 1974 invasion on Cyprus and the U.S arms ban Turkey learned a good lesson so up until know have they started to have a whole domestically made army.

 

[Generalissimo]

I wholeheartedly think that a closer relationship between Poland and the United States is a good thing, for both nations. However I, as an American, am tired of the United States promising more rewards to its allies than it actually delivers (for example look at how we've treated Britain, our best ally. They help us in Iraq and A-stan and we bad mouth them in the media and throw them under the bus on the issue of rendition torture flights.) So I certainly hope Poland gets all it wants out of this, or we stand to weaken an excellent and valueable relationship. The Polish Army would really be a first class force if it got some PACs, Apaches and Blackhawks.

, because instead on trying to rely on themselves to develop weapons they just got them from U.S, after the 1974 invasion on Cyprus and the U.S arms ban Turkey learned a good lesson so up until know have they started to have a whole domestically made army.

That shouldn't be a problem for Poland. They are very much in the good graces of the EU and the US, and I doubt that they will invade anyone anytime soon or do anything else that would result in sanctions or a political climate where selling arms to them is not an option.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

That shouldn't be a problem for Poland. They are very much in the good graces of the EU and the US, and I doubt that they will invade anyone anytime soon or do anything else that would result in sanctions or a political climate where selling arms to them is not an option.

You are right Poland is a defensive country and all they need to worry about is there neighbors who all have okay armies superior to theres so this would help them out.

 

[Rykehaven]

Well, they still need:

- a modern air-defense missile system (read: Patriot)
- potentially upgrades for their two OHPs
- missiles for these frigates
- missiles for their F-16

By some rumours, the Army wants Apaches and Black Hawks replacing their Mi-2/-8/-17/-24.

Oh, what the hell, I heard a rumor once that the Poles wanted two more OHPs (Sides and Phillip) but didn’t know how it was going to man them with conscripts. I also heard they wanted to upgrade their OHPs with an extended magazine cylinder that would allow them to fit SM-2ER along with an updated FC system.

Rumors; a dime a dozen

We had some Polish sailors on an exchange program with our frigates several years ago. They loved the MSs (they weren’t CSs yet) because they genuinely thought the world of our food and kept coming back to the Galley for more.

Imagine that: sailors who can’t get enough of ship’s food. Apparently, our’s was extraordinarily rich compared to what they got served in the Polish Navy.


Poland is best served by simply concentrating on its transition into a professional military. It’s hard to maintain the systems you’re talking about with conscripts who serve for short durations. Training alone takes several months depending on the system and proficiency takes several years. That means they have to provide the benefits to attract the right talent and improve the living conditions to keep them in the military. That means putting more meat into the food and less water.

Invest in people.

Systems are important, but secondary.

I wholeheartedly think that a closer relationship between Poland and the United States is a good thing, for both nations. However I, as an American, am tired of the United States promising more rewards to its allies than it actually delivers

Fool.

I, as an American, am glad that my country is more sanguine. The Poles will get what they pay for, under contract and in accordance with their interests. America will sell in accordance to her own. As for charity, they can have as many Perrys and Cyclones as they want. In the former case, the US Navy has already provided (not “sold”) Poland’s two best warships along with training opportunities, tech schools and exchange programs early on. There are more hulls in Bremerton if they need them and can handle them (they don’t and can’t). As for the rest, not everything in America is for sale or for charity, regardless of what you think America owes them.

Poland needs to transition to a fully professional military. The only way to do that is to attract young talent to the service. And the only way to do that is to show the kids that the Polish Military is “cool” (or something) by changing its Soviet image. How many people join the military because they “want to see the world” and get “experience”? That kind of attraction doesn’t have a dollar value but it’s worth a lot to a military organization. The OHPs, the training opportunities, the prospect of visiting America and other countries, US logistical support, not to mention the propaganda value of “operating along side” the most powerful Navy in the world…

…well, the Poles are not capable of operating “along side” us, but they’re hardly alone in pretending. Regardless, you overestimate Poland’s importance to America. Know your place…and know their’s.

(for example look at how we've treated Britain, our best ally. They help us in Iraq and A-stan and we bad mouth them in the media

He tried to express the same sentiments found anywhere in the US Navy, while allowing the Brits to save face by not actually naming them. That way the people involved wouldn’t be under any illusions about who he was talking about because it’s no secret in the profession. Meanwhile, the fools with no clue about OIF and OEF would also have no clue of who he was talking about.

That’s the way it works. :nutkick

If the crap hits the fan and the US Navy can’t guarantee the safety of your “affirmative-action” photo op, you’ll be asked to leave in private and they’ll let you handle how to spin it in public (in which case you were never “asked”).

The Navy, I think, is rather generous. But if you think we’re unforgiving, talk to the Marines or some Army personnel about the British Army.

and throw them under the bus on the issue of rendition torture flights.

Mayhap, you need instruction in the Code of Conduct and unit cohesion in captivity before advising others on "torture" [the ones given by some SERE certified chiefs or ABOs, not the standard bureucratic fare by a TRAINO the RN]. You’ll find that US personnel generally have no sympathy for the poor “accused” terrorists and the constant hand-wringing about their “torture”.

So I certainly hope Poland gets all it wants out of this, or we stand to weaken an excellent and valueable relationship. The Polish Army would really be a first class force if it got some PACs, Apaches and Blackhawks.

The Polish Army. They’re held in the same regard as the British Army in Iraq by those few US personnel who knew of their existence. Make of that what you will. As a propaganda tool, their presence was useful to their respective countries, but to us, they were both operationally worthless. It’s just that everyone’s politicians, for one reason or another, insisted on putting an “international” face on what is chiefly an American affair.

Or if you insist, “the illegal, genocidal, American war against Iraq”.

That shouldn't be a problem for Poland. They are very much in the good graces of the EU and the US, and I doubt that they will invade anyone anytime soon or do anything else that would result in sanctions or a political climate where selling arms to them is not an option.

Time will tell...:

 

[X6958]

If I was Poland, I wouldn't be worried about their air defence missiles, America would be, they are using the S-300 I believe, which is definetly in the top 3 SAMs available (PAC, S-400). I heard that the Poles brough a S-300 System to a NATO excersise, and they were quite pleased... I think the US will justtry and get them to buy the PAC for money, not for need. Poland has improved their military alot lately, there's no need for replacing something new or top of the line.

 

[kato]

they are using the S-300 I believe, which is definetly in the top 3 SAMs available (PAC, S-400). I heard that the Poles brough a S-300 System to a NATO excersise, and they were quite pleased...

That wasn't Poland, that was iirc Slovakia. Poland uses SA-5 and SA-3 for air-defence at the moment.

 

[Generalissimo]

Fool.

I, as an American, am glad that my country is more sanguine. The Poles will get what they pay for, under contract and in accordance with their interests. America will sell in accordance to her own. As for charity, they can have as many Perrys and Cyclones as they want. In the former case, the US Navy has already provided (not “sold”) Poland’s two best warships along with training opportunities, tech schools and exchange programs early on. There are more hulls in Bremerton if they need them and can handle them (they don’t and can’t). As for the rest, not everything in America is for sale or for charity, regardless of what you think America owes them.
Mayhap, you need instruction in the Code of Conduct and unit cohesion in captivity before advising others on "torture" [the ones given by some SERE certified chiefs or ABOs, not the standard bureucratic fare by a TRAINO the RN]. You’ll find that US personnel generally have no sympathy for the poor “accused” terrorists and the constant hand-wringing about their “torture”.

Look, I'm not going to respond to your personal insults and defence of torture, but I will say this.

It doesn't pay to piss off your precious few allies at a time when they are contributing to your war effort and you do not have enough troops to make up the contribution that they are giving. Indeed it makes even less sense to do so when that war is unpopular in your ally's public. So it only makes sense for us to offer some incentives to Poland.

 

[Cruelio.com]

Oh i'm sure the russians are pissed off.

 

[Chrom]

Oh i'm sure the russians are pissed off.

Russia dont care about Polish military in the slightest - upgraded or not, with US help or without. They DO care however about NATO bases - which are somewhat different matter.

 

[X6958]

Exactly, they are looking ot expand their power, if it means selling technology t oallies why shouldn't they, it improves the US economy anyways.

 

[Pro'forma]

In the foreseeable future Poland is not expected to footle around
with forfeiture.

It is on their own business turning up to international stages, modernising
bases. Sure it is improving GDP of Poland at least and less not is
considerable at any cost.

 

[ArmyAmy]

:lul Mmm I find that I frequently fail to see the point.