US Congressman endorse Indian patriot missiles procurement

XEROX

New Member
Congressman Joseph Crowley Urges State Department to Consider Sale of PAC-3 Weapons System to India
5/24/2004

Washington, DC—Today, Congressman Joseph Crowley (NY-07), Democratic Chair of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans, sent a letter to Secretary of State Colin Powell, urging him to strongly consider India’s request to purchase the U.S. Army Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) weapon system.

“It is now more important than ever that our nation be willing to help India deploy a capability to defend itself against a ballistic missile strike from an adversary or a rogue nation, or from an accidental launch from a friendly neighbor,†said Congressman Crowley. “This will enhance and create better safety in India and as a result a better safety in the U.S. Furthermore, this will create new jobs for Americans. India, the world’s largest democracy, imports 80% of its defense equipment, of which the U.S. has a very small share of the market. This would be a great opportunity for both countries, furthering our crucial ties and creating increased stability in the region.â€

The Government of India has asked the U.S. to assist them in deploying a missile defense capability. The Administration’s policy and export officials must give the PAC-3 request considerable scrutiny and review before the Executive and Legislative Branches can reach a final consent decision. Congressman Crowley has urged Secretary Powell to give India’s PAC-3 weapons system serious and expeditious consideration. The PAC-3 is purely defensive in nature.

Letter Attached.



Dear Secretary Powell:

I am aware that the Government of India has asked our country to assist them in deploying a missile defense capability. My understanding of India’s missile defense request is that the New Delhi government has specifically requested release to purchase the U. S. Army Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) weapon system. Understandably, the Administration’s policy and export officials must give the PAC-3 request considerable scrutiny and review before the Executive and Legislative Branches can reach a final consent decision. Accordingly, I strongly urge that your department give India’s PAC-3 weapon system request serious and expeditious consideration. Hopefully, when the review finally comes to closure, approval to sell the PAC-3 weapon system to New Delhi will be the result.

It is my understanding that the government of India was one of the first nations to fully endorse President Bush's decision to deploy a missile defense capability. I believe that our nation should share the fruits of our SDI investment to help our friends and allies deploy defensive shields in their countries to deter aggression. It seems only fitting then that we should be willing to export that capability to India, one of our strongest allies in South Asia. The PAC-3 missile is a defensive weapon designed for relatively low altitude engagement of ballistic missiles in their terminal phase of trajectories, and therefore should not cause a concern about triggering a potential international treaty violation, such as with the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). The PAC-3 Missile is purely defensive in nature and as such should not be perceived as capable of being reconfigured to launch offensive payloads, as described under the MTCR treaty criteria.

Mr. Secretary, I believe our nation should be willing to help India deploy a capability to defend itself against a ballistic missile strike from an adversary or a rogue nation, or from an accidental launch from a friendly neighbor.

I appreciate that there are complex policy issues that influence a decision on whether or not to sell PAC-3 to India, and we welcome hearing your views on this matter.

Sincerely,

Joseph Crowley
Member of Congress


http://crowley.house.gov/news/record.asp?id=488
 

adsH

New Member
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
Congressman Joseph Crowley Urges State Department to Consider Sale of PAC-3 Weapons System to India
5/24/2004

Washington, DC—Today, Congressman Joseph Crowley (NY-07), Democratic Chair of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans

The Government of India has asked the U.S. to assist them in deploying a missile defense capability. The Administration’s policy and export officials must give the PAC-3 request considerable scrutiny and review before the Executive and Legislative Branches can reach a final consent decision. Congressman Crowley has urged Secretary Powell to give India’s PAC-3 weapons system serious and expeditious consideration. The PAC-3 is purely defensive in nature.

Letter Attached.



Dear Secretary Powell:

I am aware that the Government of India has asked our country to assist them in deploying a missile defense capability. My understanding of India’s missile defense request is that the New Delhi government has specifically requested release to purchase the U. S. Army Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) weapon system. Understandably, the Administration’s policy and export officials must give the PAC-3 request considerable scrutiny and review before the Executive and Legislative Branches can reach a final consent decision. Accordingly, I strongly urge that your department give India’s PAC-3 weapon system request serious and expeditious consideration. Hopefully, when the review finally comes to closure, approval to sell the PAC-3 weapon system to New Delhi will be the result.

It is my understanding that the government of India was one of the first nations to fully endorse President Bush's decision to deploy a missile defense capability. I believe that our nation should share the fruits of our SDI investment to help our friends and allies deploy defensive shields in their countries to deter aggression. It seems only fitting then that we should be willing to export that capability to India, one of our strongest allies in South Asia. The PAC-3 missile is a defensive weapon designed for relatively low altitude engagement of ballistic missiles in their terminal phase of trajectories, and therefore should not cause a concern about triggering a potential international treaty violation, such as with the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). The PAC-3 Missile is purely defensive in nature and as such should not be perceived as capable of being reconfigured to launch offensive payloads, as described under the MTCR treaty criteria.

Mr. Secretary, I believe our nation should be willing to help India deploy a capability to defend itself against a ballistic missile strike from an adversary or a rogue nation, or from an accidental launch from a friendly neighbor.

I appreciate that there are complex policy issues that influence a decision on whether or not to sell PAC-3 to India, and we welcome hearing your views on this matter.

Sincerely,

Joseph Crowley
Member of Congress


http://crowley.house.gov/news/record.asp?id=488

this senator is a democrat and i think its the same person (or body) who was cursing Powell for assigning MNNA status to pakistan. i doubt the Pro israelis would help the Pro indians mainly becasue Israel wants its system Arrow 2 to be sold to India.


LOL "The PAC-3 is purely defensive in nature." :lol don't tell me hes being sarcastic here isn't he :lol . its defensive in operation but its offensive in Nature.
Pakistan would really pissed if this direct sale went through, and by the looks of it the US administration needs all the allies it can find in the current turmoil.
I think India should go for the israeli system which is available to them.
 

XEROX

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
True, India would love the Arrow-2 over the PAC-3, but the article refers to India asking the US to assist them in deploying a missile defense capability of there own :)

So possibly a purchase with ToT, highly improbable!!!!!!!
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
"The PAC-3 is purely defensive in nature." don't tell me hes being sarcastic here isn't he . its defensive in operation but its offensive in Nature.

How is it? It abides by the MRTC convention which the US, Russian, France, UK agreed to.

A system that is designed to intercept only (like the JSDF equipment) is not considered to be offensive as it can't project power.

The S400 if configured for an ABM role is the same.
 

adsH

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
"The PAC-3 is purely defensive in nature." don't tell me hes being sarcastic here isn't he . its defensive in operation but its offensive in Nature.

How is it? It abides by the MRTC convention which the US, Russian, France, UK agreed to.

A system that is designed to intercept only (like the JSDF equipment) is not considered to be offensive as it can't project power.

The S400 if configured for an ABM role is the same.
No you did not get what i meant to say here. And i must apologize here for trying to say it the way i did. what i meant was that its Offensive in nature. Every time the US gives something to india that would possibly counter anything that Pakistan has (which it uses to Defend its self ie Balistic missiles, the best Defense is Offense) then you raise the level of tension in south asia. in a way PAC 3 is offensive in design to Pakistani security. there are two things that prevent india from Attacking Pakistan. one being Pakistan's punny but significant conventional Armed forces Deterrence. and the other the Unconventional deterrence, Need i list the deterrence here. if some one sells india something that can be used to prevent Pakistan's weapons from working effectively, then the weapons in question here are offensive in nature.
 

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
isn't this Pure Logic well isn't it?. India is afraid to attack pakistan because it fears Nukes. Pakistan keeps India in its territory because of the Nukes so if the Fear of Nuke is eliminated ie some magic ABM system comes into the picture then India has a free hand, to do what it want's It maybe that India would not go to war with Pakistan but they sure as hell would wan't the Power the control and the Intimidation factor on there side. it has a stick right now but it can't use it against Pakistan becasue pakistan has one too. once the feer of being hit by the Pakistani stick is eliminated then India would have a free hand total supremacy in south asia.

SRRI you can laugh OUT LOUD all you wan't deep down this is what India Wants a stick that can be used for intimidation. INdia loves to live and does want others to live but it wants others to live as it wants them to live.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
I am just amused how you see every Indian acquisition in light of Pak. India is a huge country and she shares her borders with 7 different countries. So not everything India does is pointed at Pak. Infact the majority of India's actions ain't pointed at Pak.

As far as Pak is concerned, India believes she already has the might to ward off. Don't get fooled that India didn't attack in 2002 because of the Pak nuke bluff, even Musharraf ain't stupid enough to launch nukes. India didn't attack due to American pressure and economic slowdown fears.
 

The Watcher

New Member
Pakistan is the most serious and immediate threat India faces today.

India only has the ability to move troops within its border but not attack Pakistan because of response which would come by attacking Pakistan. If Pakistan isn't that much for India why are you always posting and craping anti-pakistani bs around here? Go vent your anger and hate/frustration about some other of 7 nations that border indian. :lolol

And India went to war 4 times before with which of those 7 nations? Which of those 7 nations is a nuclear and military power disabling india's ambitions of reuniting the subcontinent and expanding? Which of those 7 nations has missiles that can reach the furthest tip of india? :lol Underestimating your enemy is stupidity. :p
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India

Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India
KARACHI, February 20: Panic has almost broken out in the Strategic and Planning Division of Pakistan Army’s General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi as in the next 24 hours a top level team of US technical experts will land in New Delhi to brief Indian defence experts on US Patriot Advanced Capability-2 Anti-Ballistic Missile System which could shoot down any of the Pakistani nuclear missiles.
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]New Delhi made its first request to the US for this defence system in November 2002 and it is now that Pentagon has decided to begin the sale process in what the Pakistani GHQ believes would bring a virtual end to the Pakistani nuclear deterrence and tilt the power balance in India’s favor, despite Pakistan’s nuclear capability.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Army strategists do not believe Musharraf’s closest ally and friend in the War against Terror, US President George W. Bush, could be doing such a devastating thing to Pakistan. “If India gets the Patriot anti-missile defence system, where do we go, because it would be almost impossible to penetrate with the indigenous Ghauris and Hataf missiles that we have,†one worried analyst said.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Indian Defence Ministry has confirmed that a four-member team, led by Edward Ross of the Defence Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), will be in New Delhi from February 20 to 24 to discuss the missile defence system. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The team will present a technical brief to the International Security division of the Ministry of External Affairs and Ministry of Defence. Ross is second in command to General Koffler at the DSCA in Pentagon. Indian media reports say the Pentagon team will interact with officers of the Indian armed forces and the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) during their four-day stay. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Bush administration gave clearance for a classified technical presentation of PAC-2 system as part of the Next Step in Strategic Partnership (NSSP) agreement signed between India and the US last year. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Surprisingly General Musharraf or his Generals have not yet raised any hue and cry in Washington about this escalation of the arms race in the sub-continent but once the General gets out of his slumber, he is going to make noise like a skeleton on a hot tin roof, according to analysts. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first indication that Washington was willing to share technical data came after Indian Ambassador to US, Ronnen Sen, flew to New Delhi last November to discuss the missile defence issue with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee. It was then that the government gave clearance to Sen to proceed further. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While the Indian defence establishment is keen to have a look at the PAC-2 system, it has its eyes on the future because this opens the way to PAC-3, the latest upgrade of the anti-missile system developed by US defence majors Raytheon and Lockheed Martin. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PAC-2 is a long-range, all altitude and all weather air defence system to counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft. The range of the missile is 70 km and it can climb to an altitude greater than 24 km. The minimum flight time — time needed to arm a missile — is less than three seconds and maximum flight time is just three-and-half minutes. [/font]

[url="http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=122767"]US team to brief India on Patriot missiles
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/p26.jpg
This is really surprising news and also strange.
It is the US which rejected Arrow ATBM Sale to india saying that it would start arms race in the South Asia .And it is now the US Which is offering PAC-2 to India ,why??
One Reason would PAC-2 is way inferior to Arrow and that is why US Did not offer PAC-3.

This Clearly shows that Long gone are those days of Cold war when US was not even ready to sell C-130 to India becoz of Ally Pakistan.

But one worry for India would be,Russian Arms to Pakistan.However India never ignored Russia in defence deals.

No Doubt,This would spark arms race in South Asia but India clearly said when it tested nukes that it will have "no first use" Policy of WMDs ,So it will build a Missile Defence to protect the Country from Missiles.

[/url]
 
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adsH

New Member
Re: Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India

ajay_ijn said:
Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India
KARACHI, February 20: Panic has almost broken out in the Strategic and Planning Division of Pakistan Army’s General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi as in the next 24 hours a top level team of US technical experts will land in New Delhi to brief Indian defence experts on US Patriot Advanced Capability-2 Anti-Ballistic Missile System which could shoot down any of the Pakistani nuclear missiles.
Lol!! they are so hilarious, this is almost too good, If the patriots could shoot down a Sophisticated BM then the US would have no reason to continue research on there Anti Ballistic Missile system. These are PAC 3 config 2; they can, at best can take down Scuds or Rockets High performance AC and Rocks. LOL!!! It doesn't matter if you stick the Anti Ballistic Missile System next to its name, it will always be what it is. Ahh Indian Media is just Comedy!!





October 95 The PEO, Missile Defense approved full-rate production for the PAC-3 Configuration 2 Communication Enhancement Phase I (CE-1), which contained the bulk of the hardware modifications for Configuration 2. The last major upgrade prior to the fielding of the full PAC-3 capability, Configuration 2 included communications upgrades, improved radar performances, a self defense capability against anti-radiation missiles, and the ability to receive and process information from external intelligence sources.

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/systems/PATRIOT.html
 

adsH

New Member
Re: Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India

The Army strategists do not believe Musharraf’s closest ally and friend in the War against Terror, US President George W. Bush, could be doing such a devastating thing to Pakistan. “If India gets the Patriot anti-missile defence system, where do we go, because it would be almost impossible to penetrate with the indigenous Ghauris and Hataf missiles that we have,†one worried analyst said.
Good luck Fooling people here, this is such a B*** C**P, i mean nothing on earth can stop a BM in Terminal stage. this sheer ignorance to believe that BMs Could be stopped

 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
Re: Panic Grips Pakistani Generals as US Agrees to Sell Patriot Missiles to India

Uhh where does it say that U.S. has agreed to sell the missiles???
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
Lol!! they are so hilarious, this is almost too good, If the patriots could shoot down a Sophisticated BM then the US would have no reason to continue research on there Anti Ballistic Missile system. These are PAC 3 config 2; they can, at best can take down Scuds or Rockets High performance AC and Rocks. LOL!!! It doesn't matter if you stick the Anti Ballistic Missile System next to its name, it will always be what it is. Ahh Indian Media is just Comedy!!
Sophisticated BM??
We are not talking about russian ICBMs guy here we are talking about Pakistan Ballitsic Missiles.
Pakistan has more SRBMs,MRBM in their inventory.
US would have no reason to continue research on there Anti Ballistic Missile system
Becoz PAC-3 i think is not sufficient for ICBMs.
These are PAC 3 config 2; they can, at best can take down Scuds or Rockets High performance AC and Rocks. LOL!!!
Have u exactly studied the Patriot System to make a comment like or just becoz India wants to get them u think it is incapable of protecting from Longer Range Ballistic Missiles.
What I think is PAC-3 is capable stopping Missiles of range 2500km.
But India was not shown PAC-3 but PAC-2.
Whatever ABM System India gets,It will give India a Huge Psychological and Strategic Advantage over pakistan.
Thats is the reason Pakistan needs to Worry About.


Good luck Fooling people here, this is such a B*** C**P, i mean nothing on earth can stop a BM in Terminal stage. this sheer ignorance to believe that BMs Could be stopped

LOL Are u living in the age of early man.
Modern ABMs like Arrow-2,S-300/400 and also PAC-3 are capable of interpeting Ballistic Missiles of range nearly of 2500km.
Even Scud was a BM and it was intercepted many times.

What u said is exactly right for ICBM Becoz the the Sheer Speed of ICBM will overwhelm the Defences.
BMs can be Stopped but not ICBMs I suppose.

isn't this Pure Logic well isn't it?. India is afraid to attack pakistan because it fears Nukes. Pakistan keeps India in its territory because of the Nukes so if the Fear of Nuke is eliminated ie some magic ABM system comes into the picture then India has a free hand, to do what it want's It maybe that India would not go to war with Pakistan but they sure as hell would wan't the Power the control and the Intimidation factor on there side. it has a stick right now but it can't use it against Pakistan becasue pakistan has one too. once the feer of being hit by the Pakistani stick is eliminated then India would have a free hand total supremacy in south asia.

SRRI you can laugh OUT LOUD all you wan't deep down this is what India Wants a stick that can be used for intimidation. INdia loves to live and does want others to live but it wants others to live as it wants them to live.
Plz Adsh why are u again starting this India-Pakistan BullShit.
Better u take back that statement on India.
Why are u making me angry,We can argue about this for years and all we will get is Thread Locked.
Admin removed the Strategic Defence forum just becoz of Endless India-Pakistan Flame wars.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=38554#post38554
Strict military discussions will attract mature military enthusiasts who know and enjoy debating technical stuff in well moderated website
.
So for For God Sake Stop This B**S.



India only has the ability to move troops within its border but not attack Pakistan because of response which would come by attacking Pakistan. If Pakistan isn't that much for India why are you always posting and craping anti-pakistani bs around here? Go vent your anger and hate/frustration about some other of 7 nations that border indian. :lolol

And India went to war 4 times before with which of those 7 nations? Which of those 7 nations is a nuclear and military power disabling india's ambitions of reuniting the subcontinent and expanding? Which of those 7 nations has missiles that can reach the furthest tip of india? :lol Underestimating your enemy is stupidity. :p
Actually Sri Says Whatever Military Decisions India takes it not for Pakistan Alone.
Take the example of Agni-II IRBM,This is a China Specific Weapon.
And also the Nuclear Submarine Project.
If its only for Pakistan then India would have never build such powerful Navy.

If Pakistan isn't that much for India why are you always posting and craping anti-pakistani bs around here?
Thats is mainly due to patriotism.
Pakistan is much for India,Socially,emotionally,Politically,Culturally etc.

India only has the ability to move troops within its border but not attack Pakistan because of response which would come by attacking Pakistan
India only fears of Nukes not from any kind of coventional War.
 
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Elite Brain

New Member
srirangan said:
I am just amused how you see every Indian acquisition in light of Pak. India is a huge country and she shares her borders with 7 different countries. So not everything India does is pointed at Pak. Infact the majority of India's actions ain't pointed at Pak.

As far as Pak is concerned, India believes she already has the might to ward off. Don't get fooled that India didn't attack in 2002 because of the Pak nuke bluff, even Musharraf ain't stupid enough to launch nukes. India didn't attack due to American pressure and economic slowdown fears.
india (Hindustan) is only buying arms to fight against Pakistan.It is the only country that can fight back and give the indians a bloody nose and a broken head. All that BS about india buying arms to hold up against China doesnt amuse anyone anymore. India didnt dare attack Pakistan in 2002 because it was scared by the response it would get.It didnt have military superiority over the Paks then . However...the new purchases hindustan is making will give it an upper hand in a future conflict with Pakistan.
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
India didnt dare attack Pakistan in 2002 because it was scared by the response it would get
Yes becoz of Nuke Attack,Becoz ot cares about the people.
All that BS about india buying arms to hold up against China doesnt amuse anyone anymore.
May be not all weapons but some weapons are China Specific.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
EliteBrain,
I somehow get the impression that binary might be the most effective way to reply to you. So here goes.

india (Hindustan) is only buying arms to fight against Pakistan.
No.

It is the only country that can fight back and give the indians a bloody nose and a broken head.
No.

All that BS about india buying arms to hold up against China doesnt amuse anyone anymore.
No.

India didnt dare attack Pakistan in 2002 because it was scared by the response it would get.
No.

It didnt have military superiority over the Paks then.
No.

However...the new purchases hindustan is making will give it an upper hand in a future conflict with Pakistan.
Yes.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Lets take a breather here fellas. Some of this thread is going to custard.

Lets just stick a little bit closer to the subject and bypass the heated opinions.

For example. Indias threat matrix does involve more than a "Pakistan Focus".

One only has to look at the ORBAT to see that there are other considerations in play.
 
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