Underwater UFO at Sweden

Blackshoe

Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Lostfleet said:
well, it is easy assume Russians are responsible for this,

but I just dont understand what would they benefit by roaming into Swedish waters?
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What do they gain by simulating nuclear strikes against Sweden or conducting <10M CPA intercepts of Swedish reconnaissance flights?

However, as someone on Twitter noted-compare the sub search area with an overlay of known submarine cables. That makes this less an intimidation effort to me and more a covert reconnaissance operation gone wrong.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Blackshoe said:
What do they gain by simulating nuclear strikes against Sweden or conducting <10M CPA intercepts of Swedish reconnaissance flights?

However, as someone on Twitter noted-compare the sub search area with an overlay of known submarine cables. That makes this less an intimidation effort to me and more a covert reconnaissance operation gone wrong.
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If they get caught doing whatever they are doing, it isn't going to provide much in the way of sanctions relief but I guess Putin doesn't really care.
 
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Lostfleet

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What intel would Russia get from those submarine cables ?

Economic information? I doubt there would be any military information

Oh, and if it is indeed a Russian sub, what do you think it can be, Kilo ?
 
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John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Lostfleet said:
What intel would Russia get from those submarine cables ?

Economic information? I doubt there would be any military information

Oh, and if it is indeed a Russian sub, what do you think it can be, Kilo ?
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Reports say it is likely a midget sub as a larger sub should have been detected by now. Don't have a clue what information those cables carry but if the mission was to intercept data then the Russians must believe there is sometime worthwhile to justify the risk. It could also be a test of detection systems used by the West and the Russians practising their evasion tactics in a realworld scenario, again risky stuff.
 
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bdique

Member
barney41 said:
Given the blurred images available, Unidentified Fuzzy Object is accurate.:)
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I would call it Unidentified Floatation-capable Object...

Anyway tapping of undersea cables is rather...expected...at least in intelligence circles. The covert intel-gathering mission gone awry story sounds the most plausible to me.
 
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Lostfleet

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oooops I should have said Unidentified Fishing Object :) but fuzzy and floatation-capable suits as well :)

A few months ago I have visited X-24 at Gosport, a regular submarine is quite cramped I can't imagine getting stuck inside a midget submarine for a long time, it should be very uncomfortable and stressful.

I know whoever is there is not suppose to be there but I hope they get out soon,

Also how do these submarines locate underwater cables, do they have external cameras or portholes looking down ?
 
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M

My2Cents

Active Member
Lostfleet said:
Also how do these submarines locate underwater cables, do they have external cameras or portholes looking down ?
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Probably a magnetometer (a wire carrying a current will have a distinct signature) and high frequency sonar (for seeing small objects) as well.

A lot depends on how the line was installed, when, the technology used, the underwater conditions, and how you intend to tap into it.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
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Lostfleet said:
Also how do these submarines locate underwater cables, do they have external cameras or portholes looking down ?
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The USN tapped into Soviet submarine cables (including FO) with NR1 and Parche

look at the difference in platform just between these 2 boats

Parche was highly decorated - and they weren't for average seakeeping missions

Honours and awards:
9 Presidential Unit Commendations
10 Navy Unit Commendations
13 Navy Expeditionary Medals
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
gf0012-aust said:
The USN tapped into Soviet submarine cables (including FO) with NR1 and Parche

look at the difference in platform just between these 2 boats

Parche was highly decorated - and they weren't for average seakeeping missions

Honours and awards:
9 Presidential Unit Commendations
10 Navy Unit Commendations
13 Navy Expeditionary Medals
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Yes having read the book blind mans bluff, makes for interesting reading.

Yes I also believe that the Russians have in a museum the machine that tap all the conversation's. Only draw back that it was not in real time plant tape and recover sometime later. The CO of those boats must have a good heart (stress wise)
 
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bdique

Member
Now that Sweden has called off the search...what does this mean for the VIsbys?

I mean, this incident seemed to be a mini baptism of fire for the Visbys and now that things have concluded without any closure, it kinda implies to me that the Visby could not locate this undersea object.

Or am understanding this wrongly? Would love to learn more from others here about sub hunting in littorals and the challenges faced by the hunters and hunted.
 
B

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
bdique said:
Now that Sweden has called off the search...what does this mean for the VIsbys?

I mean, this incident seemed to be a mini baptism of fire for the Visbys and now that things have concluded without any closure, it kinda implies to me that the Visby could not locate this undersea object.

Or am understanding this wrongly? Would love to learn more from others here about sub hunting in littorals and the challenges faced by the hunters and hunted.
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The Visbys are missile corvettes, I don't think it should by any means be considered a failure on the part of the design if it failed to locate an underwater contact. Hell, I'm not even sure how many of them have embarked helicopters at the moment, which (properly equipped) go a long way towards providing a useful ASW capability. They lack standoff anti-submarine equipment such as ASROC too - although I don't think ASROC would be deployed in this case of course. The ASW capability of the Visby-class appears to me to be very much secondary to their primary role of surface warfare, so I don't think it's necessarily a big issue.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
bdique said:
Or am understanding this wrongly? Would love to learn more from others here about sub hunting in littorals and the challenges faced by the hunters and hunted.
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far be it for me to tell the swedes how to manage their green and grey/green maritime real estate - but I'd say its time for them to revisit how the US, Singapore, China and Israel manage their littorals.....

and, no more comment from me re "what the above countries do" to manage their nether regions
 
B

bdique

Member
Bonza said:
The Visbys are missile corvettes, I don't think it should by any means be considered a failure on the part of the design if it failed to locate an underwater contact. Hell, I'm not even sure how many of them have embarked helicopters at the moment, which (properly equipped) go a long way towards providing a useful ASW capability. They lack standoff anti-submarine equipment such as ASROC too - although I don't think ASROC would be deployed in this case of course. The ASW capability of the Visby-class appears to me to be very much secondary to their primary role of surface warfare, so I don't think it's necessarily a big issue.
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Hmm, I didn't know the Visby's were that lacking in terms of ASW capability. I guess I was taken in by the media reporting of how Visby is Sweden's futuristic 'can-do-all' stealth ship. I didn't know that they were still lacking in that many capabilities. Guess this event will give the Swedish government added impetus to fix what's lacking.

gf0012-aust said:
far be it for me to tell the swedes how to manage their green and grey/green maritime real estate - but I'd say its time for them to revisit how the US, Singapore, China and Israel manage their littorals.....

and, no more comment from me re "what the above countries do" to manage their nether regions
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Well, the good news is that I'm Singaporean, so that's one quarter of my curiosity somewhat satisfied...
 
Blackshoe

Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I'd expect the Swedes to also start talking to the ROKs about developing small ships that can get a lot of ASW equipment packed onto them.

The Guardian thinks Swedish accession to NATO following a failure to find the submarine is "almost inevitable". When even the Grauniad is saying that...that's a problem.
 
W

Wall83

Member
The Visby Project has been critized many times, it even been on the table to cancel the whole program.
The the first boat was launched in 2000 and today they are still not ready for full active service.
This is why the navy keeps the older Stockholm and Göteborg class Corvettes still. And several of these are getting updates and will be modified to remain active for surley antother decade.
 
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