Type 094 launched?

armage

New Member
China Launches New Class of Nuclear Sub

2 hours, 45 minutes ago White House - AP Cabinet & State


By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - China has launched the first submarine in a new class of nuclear subs designed to fire intercontinental ballistic missiles, U.S. defense officials said Friday.



The submarine is, at a minimum, months away from having missiles installed and going on a cruise, one official said, discussing foreign weapons developments only on the condition of anonymity. Still, it is further evidence of China's intentions to expand both its nuclear weapons and submarine forces, officials say.


It was widely known that China was building the new class of nuclear-missile submarine, called the "Type 094," but the launch is far ahead of what U.S. intelligence expected, one official said.


The launch was first reported in The Washington Times. The newspaper reported that U.S. intelligence spotted the sub at a shipyard 250 miles northwest of Beijing.


It would be China's first submarine capable of launching nuclear weapons that could reach the United States from the country's home waters, officials said.


The Chinese military has also been developing a new class of submarine-launched ballistic missile, called the JL-2, that is expected to have a range in excess of 4,600 miles. The Type 094 submarine would carry these missiles, but it is not clear whether the missiles are ready for deployment.


Previously, China has had only one submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles, called the Type 092, or Xia, class. In 2001, a Pentagon (news - web sites) report said the Xia was not operational. Its missiles were of an older class that could fly only 600 miles.


Successful cruises by the Type 094 would give China a new strategic deterrent against the United States, no longer limited to land-based ICBMs and weapons carried on aircraft. But U.S. defense officials say China lags behind the United States in its ability to hide submarines from sophisticated sonars and other sensors.


China is also modernizing its land-based nuclear missile force, replacing its estimated 20 ICBMs with more modern versions. In a report on China's military issued last May, the Pentagon said China's cache of ICBMs could increase to 30 by next year and 60 by 2010.


Although considered unlikely in the near term, the most likely avenue for conflict between the United States and China is over Taiwan, which China regards as a rogue province. Taiwan is seeking high-tech weaponry from the United States, including diesel submarines and anti-submarine aircraft.


The United States, France, Russia and the United Kingdom all have submarines capable of launching ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads.

Source


I think the Russians probably did help the PLAN, it'll probably better than the 092 by one generation?
What do you guys think about this?
 

Ethan

New Member
I would say (and mind you this is only my opinion and not based on any technical information available to me) that the Type 94 probably is comparable to the Russian Delta II/III series in tems of overall technology. Firepower ofcourse is a different issue.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I'm still waiting for other info to come out before I comment too much. The boat is a few years ahead of schedule, and there were problems a few months ago when China tried some SLBM tests.

But they have certainly progressed ahead of schedule. It was built in closed shipyard 250km away from Beijing.

Which is interesting as the Yuan was built approx 1000km inland as well.
 

Ethan

New Member
GF any news on the type 93 series. There is a lot of speculation on one hull having been already launed and under trials, however other websites are still saying that it will be launched in 2005.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Ethan said:
GF any news on the type 93 series. There is a lot of speculation on one hull having been already launed and under trials, however other websites are still saying that it will be launched in 2005.
None yet, I think analysts are being more cautious about Chinas delivery schedules now as this boat has just demonstrated how quickly they are moving. This class of vessel is approx 3 years ahead of schedule.

It was the same with AWACs, they delivered an indigneous capability 2 years ahead of predictions. It's kind of irrelevant on how good they are (and the AWACs is considered to be less capable than an E2), the main issue is that China has demonstrated a capacity to accelerate design and development, and is highly motivated internally enough to deliver in compressed time frames.

The other thing is that China is taking a pragmatic view of construction. She doesn't seek perfection from each platform, but is apparently more focussed on developing a capability, a skillset, and to develop practical learning stages in construction - hence she looks as though she will to short "runs" of vessel type.
 

armage

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
So you are saying that they are trading skills to perfect something in order to rush it out. Or just going quantity over quality.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
armage said:
So you are saying that they are trading skills to perfect something in order to rush it out. Or just going quantity over quality.
No. I think china is taking an "iterative development path". she doesn't care if the platform is perfect, as in each iteration she is learning something new and still developing critical skills that are necessary for the next version.

it's a pragmatic approach.
 

mysterious

New Member
China tested ballistic missile submarine in July

BEIJING: China in July test launched a new 094-class of ballistic missile submarine, which is expected to be fully operational in one or two years, well ahead of a Pentagon estimate of around 2010, The Washington Times newspaper said on Friday. One US defence official told the daily the submarine represents “a more modern, more capable missile platform,†while another called it “China’s first truly intercontinental strategic nuclear delivery system.†The new submarine, the officials said, was spotted by US intelligence agencies at Huludao shipyard, some 400 kilometres northeast of Beijing. It was in the early states of being outfitted and is not yet equipped with new JL-2 submarine-launched nuclear missiles, the report said. The vessel is believed to be based largely on Russian nuclear submarine technology, another defence official said. It is part of China’s effort to modernise and expand its missile force. The daily said a Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington had no immediate comment on the report. AFP

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-12-2004_pg4_4

Hmm, now how far is this correct? Seems like China has made some acknowledgeable advance in naval platforms if this is true.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
mysterious said:
China tested ballistic missile submarine in July

BEIJING: China in July test launched a new 094-class of ballistic missile submarine, which is expected to be fully operational in one or two years, well ahead of a Pentagon estimate of around 2010, The Washington Times newspaper said on Friday. One US defence official told the daily the submarine represents “a more modern, more capable missile platform,†while another called it “China’s first truly intercontinental strategic nuclear delivery system.†The new submarine, the officials said, was spotted by US intelligence agencies at Huludao shipyard, some 400 kilometres northeast of Beijing. It was in the early states of being outfitted and is not yet equipped with new JL-2 submarine-launched nuclear missiles, the report said. The vessel is believed to be based largely on Russian nuclear submarine technology, another defence official said. It is part of China’s effort to modernise and expand its missile force. The daily said a Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington had no immediate comment on the report. AFP

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-12-2004_pg4_4

Hmm, now how far is this correct? Seems like China has made some acknowledgeable advance in naval platforms if this is true.
It's a variation of the White House announcement - except one's in metric, and one's in imperial. So there's no fundamental diff in the news being delivered.
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
I wonder how much Russian assistance was put into this SSBN. I've been eager to know the details of the sub, but unfortunately there is no way for a lowly private in the canadian army reserve to receive intel reports.

However, I have heard rumors from China which claims to be from R&D experts that China has plan to obtain up to 4 units. Again it's rumor since I have no way of getting confirmation from official source or intel report to back it up.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Pathfinder-X said:
I wonder how much Russian assistance was put into this SSBN. I've been eager to know the details of the sub, but unfortunately there is no way for a lowly private in the canadian army reserve to receive intel reports.

However, I have heard rumors from China which claims to be from R&D experts that China has plan to obtain up to 4 units. Again it's rumor since I have no way of getting confirmation from official source or intel report to back it up.
It is supposed to be a variation of an existing Russian SSBN. It's hard to say re this. and there are conflicting reports. I know an operator in Putins Navy and he says that the relationship between the Navies is tense, so from his perspsective they wouldn't be sharing anything, OTOH I know an american analyist who specialises in the PLAN and he seems to think that China had people on the inside. "money talks".

I'll probably get some info during next week as I'm part of a strategic studies group that looks at Chinese capability, if there is anything that is not considered priveliged, then I'll add bits and pieces.

But, this is way too early to make any calls on.
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
Oh Man!! this is a really shocking news for me.
Having SSBN which can launch SLBM's of intercontinental Range is really Packs a powerful Punch.Its really a political tool.

Even if this Sub is as noisy as Xia,it provides the best deterrence against USA.

If more number of subs are produced like this,then its starts a big arms race between US and China.

I think US attack subs must be deployed in Pacific to track these SSBN's like they did track Soviet Typhoon.

But I hope that this submarine will not be another typhoon.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ajay_ijn said:
Oh Man!! this is a really shocking news for me.
Having SSBN which can launch SLBM's of intercontinental Range is really Packs a powerful Punch.Its really a political tool.

Even if this Sub is as noisy as Xia,it provides the best deterrence against USA.

If more number of subs are produced like this,then its starts a big arms race between US and China.

I think US attack subs must be deployed in Pacific to track these SSBN's like they did track Soviet Typhoon.

But I hope that this submarine will not be another typhoon.
It's not as big as Typhoon. It's a first gen SSBN. The day it slips into international waters I would imagine that there would be a queue of SSKN's following it from different countries just to get an acoustic footprint.

It's par for the course.
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
I'll probably get some info during next week as I'm part of a strategic studies group that looks at Chinese capability, if there is anything that is not considered priveliged, then I'll add bits and pieces.
gf can i ask u a question
If u reveal the classified data in these forums then what will happen?
Do u even keep it a secret from your family members and friends?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ajay_ijn said:
I'll probably get some info during next week as I'm part of a strategic studies group that looks at Chinese capability, if there is anything that is not considered priveliged, then I'll add bits and pieces.
gf can i ask u a question
If u reveal the classified data in these forums then what will happen?
Good grief, no one is going to release classified material over the internet. In the case of the studies group, the issue is whether that material is allowed to be used by any members outside of the group. It's a copywrite and a courtesy issue. If any of it was classified, I wouldn't even mention it on a public forum. That would be moronic of me and would result in me having uninvited guests fairly quickly. ;)

ajay_ijn said:
Do u even keep it a secret from your family members and friends?
Thats the whole purpose of it - you aren't supposed to tell anyone. In Australia that means you can be placed in Prison, We are still bound by elements of the Official Secrets Act even if and when we leave the Govt.
 

PLAbuddy

New Member
ppl..there is one serious problem chinese 094 facing

it seems the missles it gonna carry has some problems---JL2, or DF-31

the two recent tests of this missle all failed...
094 is useless if JL-2 doesn't work, it may take another 3 years to make sure JL-2 missle works and 094 can release it when we need

Mod Edit {Could you give us a source for the info you got on the missile tests?}
 
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