Team Complex Weapons

[Pingu]

The Team Complex Weapons is generally quite a good concept in that it seeks to reuse and transfer technology and maintain a high level of commonality across a broad spectrum of weapons. I would make a few changes to the current thinking though.

Working from the lighter end of the scale to the heavy;

The Fire Shadow Loitering Munition -

I feel this ought to be cancelled. I feel that this is an inefficient method of fire support. Surely the use of UAVs to guide precision artillery is a more efficient proceedure and is just a matter of upgrading existing systems already in the inventory. Instead, I think the MoD ought to focus on procuring the M777 and a guided artillery round including a guided 105mm for use with current light guns in the inventory. Hopefully guided 155mm rounds could be common for both M777 and AS90s.

FASGW(L) - Currently, this weapon will be fullfilled by using technology from the Starstreak missile. I feel a more cost effective solution would be to develop a guidance kit for CRV7 rockets much like the US are doing with their current rockets. Again, this would be an cheap but effective way of using weapons from the current stock. Integration onto current systems such as the Apache would be also very cheap.

In between the FASGW(L) and FASGW (H), I see a good place for the Dual Mode Brimstone to be used. Trials of the Helfire MMW from an Apache have currently taken place and the DMB with its salvo firing features and laser guidance would be yet more effective.

SPEAR (Short range) - For the shorter range requirement, I see no real need to improve much upon the current DMB system.

SPEAR (Medium range) - Simply building a wing kit for the PW4 should suffice as well as making the system compatible with 1000lb and 2000lb bombs currently in the inventory.

SPEAR (Long range) - Here is probably my most controversial suggestion. Current thinking is to build on Storm Shadow technology. However, I think that the Storm Shadow should be phased out and the UK should opt to procure the US-Norwiegan JSM, for two reasons. The obvious one is that it is already designed to be integrated internally the the F-35. This would avoid extra JSF-Storm Shadow integration costs. It would also provide the F-35 with an anti-shipping capability that has not currently been proposed or considered as far as I am aware. The Harpoon will also need replacing eventually so the JSM would be an effective way of replacing ship based and air based Harpoons and fullfilling SPEAR at the same time. Storm Shadow integration onto the Typhoon should therefore be abandoned and the missile slowly phased out.

Using the CAMM is a sound idea for all that it is intended to replace, although I would even go as far as to say that it replace ASTER 15. I see partial overlap and no reason to have ASTER 15.

 

[Pingu]

To the moderators. Apologies, I should have put this in the "Missiles and WMD" section. Might be worth moving it.

[Mod edit] Thread moved as requested [/Mod edit]

 

[swerve]

Fireshadow is intended to operate at greater ranges than artillery, & be more precise. It also has scope to be used where long-range precision artillery won't be present, e.g. from fairly small ships.

FASGW(L) is already tested & in production, as LMM. It should be cheaper than Starstreak, & the current order absorbs part of a Starstreak order, the missiles being completed as LMM. We get to drop the expensive part of the Starstreak, & substitute the cheaper LMM parts.

SPEAR capability 2 is, as I understand it, an updated DMB. At the rate we're using up Brimstones, we'll either have to buy more or buy something else before very long, so why not just apply whatever technology updates have been developed since it was first thought of, & carry on?

Spear capability 3 could be a 100 kg class bomb with a wing kit, or a version of FASGW(H), or something else. AFAIK it's still in the assessment phase. The emphasis is supposed to be, as with the others, on not re-inventing the wheel.

I don't see the point of phasing out Storm Shadow. We already have a large stock. Why scrap them? AFAIK the plan is to upgrade the current stock, not buy large additional numbers.

The Norwegian NSM & its developments can't replace it. The total missile weight is the same as the Storm Shadow warhead, & the range is far less. It can't do the job. Don't get me wrong: I think NSM looks like a fine missile. But it's for a different role than Storm Shadow.

 

[Pingu]

I have mixed opinions on the Fireshadow to be fair. On the one hand, I see the fact that they are not reusable as a waste, not that an artillery shell is but if the target isn't acquired, the round isn't fired (no rhymme intended there). On the other hand however, the unit cost is likely to be the same, if not lower than something like Excalibur as the controls systems do not have to be as miniturised or tolerant to high g-forces.

I certainly agree with you that it can be used from smaller ships although the surface fleet is likely in future to include only T45s and T23s (eventually T26s) which all have big guns anyway. I would like to see plans go ahead in making naval artillery common with AS90 guns and to see the same guided shell equip both the navy and the army. Although I don't see Fireshadow being used from smaller ships, perhaps they could be used from ships such as Albion or Bulwark etc.

I am surprised that the order for Starstreak was still ongoing. Were the latest production models more advanced versions? It would be good to see LMM developed in such a way that it is able to perform both air-surface and surface-air roles simultaniously. This would make a very versatile weapon for ground combat vehicles. I still think however, that a guided CRV7 is a much more cost effective option, UK stocks of CRV7s must be enormous.

I agree with you that the Storm Shadow should not be phased out. By phased out, I meant to continue support but not to produce more.

The whole SPEAR idea to me seems like a bit of a non-programme. The way I see it, the three main weapons in the current arsenal at the moment are the DMB, PW4 and Storm Shadow. They're all in their infancy, they all have potential, so let's just upgrade them when necessary and where possible, retrofit existing stock.

I would like to see extra PW4 kits produced and used on otherwise unguided 1000lb bombs, replacing all current PW2 kits and perhaps even the 2000lb PW3 kits.

I think the only weapon that needs adding to the arsenal is the NSM. I agree that it does not have the performance of the Storm Shadow and therefore should not replace it. But it does fit a role between PW4 and Storm Shadow, while offering the F-35 and antiship capability and potentially replacing both sea launched and air launched Harpoons, although not submarine launched, but to be fair, I question the need for sub-launched Harpoons.