Tapping an international phone line in New Zealand

Sea Toby

New Member
Throughout the world, police have tapped phone lines, many under court approval. Yet, in New Zealand some, the Anzac ploughshares, feel its okay to destroy or damage government property, our property. The right of free speech is at issue, but no one has the right to yell fire in a theater, and with the war against terror, use phones to plan their slaughter. I hope the New Zealand authorities throw the book at these three misguided renegades, they have no appreciation of government property or understand its policies.

While their silly attack was aimed at the United States, they only damaged the honor of the New Zealand government. Why do so many peaceniks, left wing radicals, lose their peacefulness to crude assaults? Don't proclaim your peacefulness when banishing a sickle.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I suppose you're referring to their attack on the Waihopei base? For a terrorist act, bit too peaceful and harmless, sorry.

Also, one thing to remember in your diatribe - Echelon wasn't built for the war on terror, or for the Cold War even really, but for other things.

I hope the New Zealand authorities throw the book at these three misguided renegades, they have no appreciation of government property or understand its policies.
Appreciation of government property or understanding (approval) of government policies is a decisive factor in judging people in your opinion? Think about it.

10 bucks this thread will be closed for politics.
 

kiwifighter300

New Member
Before the thread is closed. It is a shame that they refer to themselves as the ANZAC ploughshares, a bit of a kick in the teeth for the real ANZAC's, their relatives and those who follow in their footsteps.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry too much about this bunch of people. They are a loose collective (mind you they've done more damage in the US if you search the web on them). Most kiwis won't support intentional damage like this i.e. they don't have wide support.

The positive thing that's come out of it is that NZ's semi-complacent attitude to securing defence areas and bases will only improve (I certainly think that base in question could have had better defences anyway). Especially in light of a recent defence wide security review, coincidentally published only a few days beforehand and with the Govt supposedly to be committing a lot of money to improve security and storage, this incident may ensure this happens quicker and to a better level etc.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
I suppose you're referring to their attack on the Waihopei base? For a terrorist act, bit too peaceful and harmless, sorry.

Also, one thing to remember in your diatribe - Echelon wasn't built for the war on terror, or for the Cold War even really, but for other things.


Appreciation of government property or understanding (approval) of government policies is a decisive factor in judging people in your opinion? Think about it.

10 bucks this thread will be closed for politics.
You might not understand the respect for public utility and/or government property. I am sure you would be just as unimpressed by a silly group tearing down the utility poles serving your house because the spies use telephones and/or electricity to run their electronic machines.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
You might not understand the respect for public utility and/or government property.
It's not that i don't understand the respect - but i also understand the disrespect. As long as the perpetrators were not endangering people and were aware of and willing to face the consequences of their doing (including getting fleeced for the repair bill), everything's fair.
I am sure you would be just as unimpressed by a silly group tearing down the utility poles serving your house because the spies use telephones and/or electricity to run their electronic machines.
If power or communications lines went out in my neighborhood, any such group would have decidedly different problems (... with the US military, to be exact). I'd probably get a good laugh from it.
Seriously? Utility poles (not that we have them, but let's assume). Peanuts in spending for the government, and two days at most to get everything going again.
 

Grandstrat

New Member
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Police consider fresh charges against spy base attackers (+photos)
Page 1 of 2View as a single page6:49PM Wednesday April 30, 2008

The deflated spy ball this morning. Photo / Dan Hutchinson
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Watch Video: Helen Clark on the Waihopai attack
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Related nzherald links:
Protest targets spy base
Three peace activists, accused of deflating one of Waihopai spy base's domes with sickles today, have been remanded in custody on criminal damage and burglary charges.

But police told Blenheim District Court they were considering charging the men with sabotage under the Crimes Act, an offence which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years' jail.

Damage to the Marlborough base, run by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB), is estimated at more than $1 million.

Samuel Peter Frederick Land, 24, of Hokianga, Adrian James Leason, 42, a teacher from Otaki and Peter Reginald Leo Murnane, 67, a Dominican friar from Auckland, have all been charged with intentionally damaging a satellite, the property of the GCSB, and entering a building with the intention to commit a crime.

At today's bail hearing, Judge Richard Russell remanded Leason and Murnane in custody without plea to reappear in court on Monday. Land's bail application was adjourned until Monday and he was also kept in custody.

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The three men were arrested early this morning, after allegedly using bolt cutters to cut through three security fences and one of two 30-metre domes covering satellite interception dishes was deflated.

They were part of a group called Anzac Ploughshares which aims to spread the message of disarmament by disabling warplanes and military equipment. The group's name comes from a biblical reference to turning swords into ploughshares.

Described as a satellite communications monitoring facility, opponents of the base say it is part of Echelon, the worldwide network of signals interception facilities run by American and British intelligence agencies and contributes to the war in Iraq.

As they were taken from the court into the police van, Land said he was going on a five-day hunger strike, and Leason said he would pray for those in Iraq, where one million people had died, the Marlborough Express reported.

"The war in Iraq takes some explaining," Murnane said.
A little bit from the NZ herald, how funny.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Main stream media is not on the protestors side. Main stream public opinion is not on their side either.

Letters to the editor are 90% against the protestors.

Bloggs, well very unscientific but opinions as one would expect vary between those that are against, to those that are for eg conspiricy theorists, anti-US, anti-Iraq invasion types, other activists etc. Interesting comments can be found but a lot are just peoples rants and raves, very tiresome to read.

Sure, other peace groups are, as you would expect.

On Friday the police threw out the sabotage charges but these guys will be done on other lesser charges, they were caught in the act and didn't deny what they did. Unfortunately they will become martyrs to the one or two active peace groups, and thus continue to get publicity. Their main objective is publicity of course, so they've achieved it.

Activists tend to get let off alot for much less protest action, so it will be a shock to the system when these guys are jailed (activists don't like jail, the real crims in there would have them sh*tless...). Probably get a token sentence, but who cares about the length of sentence, they will get a criminal record and discover that is real big problem if they ever try to get a real job or want to travel overseas.

Recent NZ Herald editorial sums up the situation nicely. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10507443
Editorial: Waihopai vandalism pointless

The work done by facilities at Waihopai, near Blenheim, and Tangimoana, in the Manawatu, has been the subject of rumour and speculation since they began operating. Protest groups have highlighted their top-secret nature by referring to them as spy bases and calling for information about them to be made public. Therefore, by far the most interesting aspect of the raid on Waihopai by three men belonging to the Anzac Ploughshares group was the unveiling of what lay beneath the station's rubber domes. There, exposed to the world by the protesters' sickles, was what appeared to be a fairly conventional satellite dish. Leading-edge technology this did not appear to be.

Waihopai is, it seems, what its owner and operator, the Government Communications Security Bureau, has always insisted in terms of serving New Zealand's needs for foreign intelligence. Wednesday's disclosure makes it reasonable to conclude that it intercepts foreign communications and shares information with the United States, Canada, Australia and Britain as part of the Echelon electronic snooping network. That information-sharing is, of course, what irks the likes of the pacifist Anzac Ploughshares. They claim Waihopai is feeding information to the US in support of wars New Zealand does not support.

It is easy enough to understand their reservations about the American-led invasion of Iraq. But their criticism rapidly becomes ill-founded when it is recognised that the station is, more importantly, part of the US effort to monitor terrorism. The Anzac Ploughshares say the raid was "responding to the Bush Administration's admission that intelligence gathering is the most important tool in the so-called war on terror". They seem oblivious to the fact that Waihopai could be pivotal in preventing another 9/11. Its communications interception capability could pick up the planning of such a plot or, indeed, thwart a terrorist outrage closer to home.

A disturbing extreme self-righteousness is also evident in the action of the three men who raided Waihopai - Catholic priest Peter Murnane, organic gardener Adrian Leason and Hokianga farmer Sam Land. This was a criminal act involving damage to property. The cost, to be picked up by the New Zealand taxpayer, is estimated to be more than $1 million. As successful as the raid may have been as a publicity stunt, thanks to a fortuitous heavy fog and an obvious security failure, it warrants only scorn.

The trio seem not to understand this. They are part of a group that proclaims its aim of spreading the message of disarmament by, somewhat ironically, using violent means to disable warplanes and military equipment. In any civilised society, such tactics will always be offensive. They tar not only those responsible for such zealotry but those who pursue the same cause through acceptable avenues of expression, such as sit-ins and demonstrations. The latter approach has, of course, already been used in relation to Waihopai. A small band of protesters marched on the station as recently as January. They achieved no result or resonance, a pointer to the public being unconvinced of the merits of their case. The marchers were, as a neighbour of the base suggested, "speaking to themselves".

Anzac Ploughshares might use this failure to justify more radical tactics. But vandalism will never be acceptable. Unlike well-orchestrated protests, there is no chance that it will attract the level of popular support which places pressure on a government to change direction. Instead, it invites contempt. Such is the lot of extremists. Their ability to win publicity is matched in inverse proportion by their failure to win adherents.
And a defence academic had this to say. If largely correct, then the protestors are mis-informed (and damaging NZ's interests not G.W.B's as they claim). Radio NZ had an interesting i/v with the groups spokeman last Wed, they based their info on a book from a well known nz peace activist, and also the spokesman got his facts wrong eg saying the base was built before the rainbow warrior bombing and the base didn't prevent the bombing. The base was actually built after the bombing (sheesh!) so who knows, it may have actually prevented other state sabotage a la 1995 french tests resuming for all we know!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=467&objectid=10507478
Slim pickings for spy base trio
Religious radicals who attacked the top-secret Waihopai spy base more likely hampered New Zealand's ability to drive a hard bargain at the trade table than crippled the US ability to wage war, says one intelligence expert.

Peter Cozens, head of Victoria University's Centre for Strategic Studies, says the mysterious Marlborough base is used strictly to collect and analyse information - often of "a political, trade and diplomatic nature" - for the New Zealand Government.

Members of the Anzac Ploughshares movement infiltrated the base in an early-morning raid on Wednesday.

Dominican friar Peter Murnane, organic gardener Adrian Leason and Hokianga farmer Sam Land allegedly inflicted up to $1 million damage when they used sickles to slash one of two rubber balloons used to protect satellite dishes from the weather.

The men claimed their attack was prompted by a Bush Administration admission that intelligence gathering is "the most important tool in the so-called war on terror".

But Mr Cozens said yesterday the facility is operated solely by the Government Communications Security Bureau and is paid for by the taxpayer.

"It is entirely, totally, cosa nostra New Zealand. It is New Zealand's mafia, if you like, it's our thing. It's got nothing to do with the Americans."

He believed "peace movement" claims that the facility has a military function were "really stretching credulity a bit".

"I am sure there will be some odd military things that go by it, but it's not its primary purpose."

Instead, Mr Cozens says the installation - and a sister facility at Tangimoana, near Palmerston North - monitors "anything that bounces off a satellite" in the South Pacific region.

Such targets include cellphone, email, fax and radio communications from foreign sources. The GCSB is forbidden, by law, to monitor or record domestic communications.

The information is then collated for the assistance of the "trade negotiators, politicians or diplomats" who represent New Zealand abroad.

"We are better prepared for what our bottom line would be, or what advantage we might have ... because we have been listening in."

There is limited monitoring of "bad people" in the region, such as Southeast Asian Islamic militant group Jemaah Islamiyah, he says.

Ultimately, all information is "pooled for mutual benefit" with similar material harvested by the US, Britain, Canada and Australia.

"These [pieces of information] are bargaining pieces ...

"This is information that we have, that we have defined for our own purposes, and it's no different to an old- fashioned game of you show me your hand, I'll show you mine."

Mr Cozens believes Wednesday's attack will lead to a tightening of security at the base, but says the public are often the best form of security.

"The public are pretty well aware of what's going on around the place. I think, in this instance, the perpetrators of this crime were fortunate not to be apprehended before they broke the perimeter."

Two of the three protesters were on hunger strike yesterday.

Blenheim police said Land and Leason were taking only water and Murnane was eating only dry food.

It was not clear if they planned to continue the hunger strike until Monday when they were due to reappear at court.

"They are being treated in a human fashion and we've involved our police medical officer to make sure they are in good health," a spokesman said.
 
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