Saudi to replace Iran as Russian defence market

[nevidimka]

Saudi Arabia Eager to Replace Iran
Russia’s President Vladimir Putin met with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal yesterday, February 14, 2008. In Riyadh, they are strongly concerned about the large-scale cooperation of Russia and Iran, particularly the nuclear one.
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal stayed in Moscow only for a few hours yesterday, and the meeting with President Vladimir Putin took most of his visit. The prince delivered to Putin a personal letter of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, who initiated negotiations.

The sources say the letter describes Riyadh’s evaluation of the Middle East situation. But Saud Al-Faisal evidently passed the most vital message by word of mouth. In Saudi Arabia, they are sure that Iran’s policy will shatter the region in future and the helping hand of Moscow is needed to prevent it.

Riyadh elaborated a plan to save the region from the so-called Iranian threat, where it is to play the key role in tandem with Moscow. So, the Saudi guest endeavored to persuade the Kremlin that stronger Iran would disbalance the Middle East. In return to winding up Russia’s-Iranian contracts, Riyadh promised to buy Russia’s weapons at large, replacing Iran as its partner in military and technical field.

Saudi Arabia won’t confine to the military deals. The minister urged Moscow to conclude a big agreement of bilateral cooperation, fueling mutual turnover and investments to $50 billion in the nearest five years.

http://www.kommersant.com/p853111/r_500/Saudi_Arabia_cooperation/

 

[Izzy1]

"Riyadh promised to buy Russia’s weapons at large, replacing Iran as its partner in military and technical field."

Absolute Bollocks.

Who will buy Russian? Within the House of Saud - tell me why they would buy Puttin's kit?

The Prince Sultan's RSLF, RSNF or RSAF - 40 years western orders and experience.

The low US Dollar exchange rate kicked in...

Yet, King Abdullah's SANG and Ministry of Interior - refused Russian kit. Please, if I'm getting this wrong; tell me more?

If you can tell me the Saudi orders "...at large...", then fair enough. In the meantime I think your very spouting very deluded rubbish my friend.

If there is one consistent - its the inconsistency of Westernkit the House of Saud buy.

 

[drg]

You want to clam down a bit Izzy. The information came from a generally reliable source, and we know about you're working in Saudi Arabia so i doubt the original post from nevidimka was calling you're rep into question, ok?
Now, I would have to agree with Izzy on this one, namely that there has been bluster about Russia selling equipment to Saudi Arabia in the past, though not much has come of it. I was checking out French defence exports for 2006 yesterday for instance, and found that SANG bought 76 Caesar SPHs in 2006 which was a traditional move for Saudi Arabia.
That being said, UAE has acquired equipment from Ukraine and Russia (albeit the dodgy Pantsir-S1, but there you go), so it is not entirely impossible that the House of Saud would acquire...perhaps...certain high-end equipment from Russia (maybe...S-300 or something), but it is unlikely.

 

[Izzy1]

Please... drg,

Please, work out who your talking to. I work here in Saudi - so please, don't patronise me.

What do you have to say?

You want to clam down a bit Izzy. The information came from a generally reliable source, and we know about you're working in Saudi Arabia so i doubt the original post from nevidimka was calling you're rep into question, ok?
Now, I would have to agree with Izzy on this one, namely that there has been bluster about Russia selling equipment to Saudi Arabia in the past, though not much has come of it. I was checking out French defence exports for 2006 yesterday for instance, and found that SANG bought 76 Caesar SPHs in 2006 which was a traditional move for Saudi Arabia.
That being said, UAE has acquired equipment from Ukraine and Russia (albeit the dodgy Pantsir-S1, but there you go), so it is not entirely impossible that the House of Saud would acquire...perhaps...certain high-end equipment from Russia (maybe...S-300 or something), but it is unlikely.

Saudi is not the UAE.

Mod edit:

Izzy if you don't start lifting the quality of your posts. You are going to be banned. Plain and simple.

You KNOW better than this. If you don't WANT to contribute fine. If you do, please do so contructively.

AD

Mod please why?

This is the first constructive argument from someone who has something to say.

Who/What are we offending?

 

[Chrom]

Not touching russian weapon quality and usual russian vs western stuff debate - political it is very possible move. Saudi Arabia and UAE actively seeking counterbalance to USA in they region - especeally with recent explosion in oil prices.

On the other hand, Iran is much more important for Russia politically. True, Iran cant pay that much money. But Iran control vast oil & gas resources, and what is even more important - pipline routes. Iran also partially control very important Black Sea and Caspian Sea. Iran is quite agressive (politically) country - it is also important.

Therefore i dont believe Russia will somehow replace Iran relations with SA relations. Some trade-off might be possible - but nothing really important here.

 

[nevidimka]

I saw the news n thought it was an interesting development if its taking place behind the scenes.

Saudi is flushed with cash, so its not improbable that they could buy some quality russian equipment to complement their requirement. Not all russian equipment is unfauvorable to the west or its allies. Greece n UAE are some of the examples. If i'm not mistaken, even the T 90 trialed in the saudi desert didnt it.

But whether anything constructive would come out of it is suspect. Iran is very important to Russia, n Saudi will possibly be forced by US preassure if it decided to buy russian arms in quantity.

 

[contedicavour]

The military kit in Saudi comes from so many disparate sources it must cost a fortune to keep it operational and to make it work together.

Traditionally the air force was primarily left to the UK (Tornado and Hawk, now Typhoon - good news for us European partners) with a sizeable portion left for the US (F15).
The army was the preserve of the US, with M1A2s MBTs for instance.
The navy was the preserve of the French, with the Al Madinah and then the improved Lafayette F3000. Expect potentially a couple of air defence FREMMs (which strangely enough woudl be provided by the French even if it is Fincantieri who is building Aster 30-equipped FREMMs ).

So if some Russian kit arrives (say T90 MBTs or S300 - though since the Saudis already have Patriot it wouldn't really make sense) it would just add to the maintenance nightmare...

cheers

 

[SaudiArabian]

kommersant is not reliable source to me , i remember its the same newspaper which claimed that KSA "signed a deal" to buy tens of Russian helicopters , a thing which did not happen.

the only real promise which could be given to Russia is to flood Russia with billions of dollars of Saudi investments in various attracting sectors in Russia or go ahead with the Saudi-Russian nuclear cooperation further to build nuclear reactos in KSA , not arms deals.

however , there are light arms made in Russia which serve in branches of Saudi Arabia ; RSADF & MOI Security Forces.

 

[Chrom]

kommersant is not reliable source to me , i remember its the same newspaper which claimed that KSA "signed a deal" to buy tens of Russian helicopters , a thing which did not happen.

the only real promise which could be given to Russia is to flood Russia with billions of dollars of Saudi investments in various attracting sectors in Russia or go ahead with the Saudi-Russian nuclear cooperation further to build nuclear reactos in KSA , not arms deals.
.

If, as we suspect, these deals are mainly political (and f.e. nuclear deal is surery political) then Saudi can buy any russian arms equipment disregarding any possible quality or maintainance problems. After all, the deal is political. Ofc, i dont see any sence in buying T-90 or even MI-28/35. But for example S-300/400, TOR/Pantsir, T-95, Mi-8/17/26, BMP-3, etc - all these are possible. These are exellent products what either dont have direct western analogy or just superior/very good.

So, if Saudi really wants to please Russia for whatever reason, they certainly can find something to buy.

 

[contedicavour]

If, as we suspect, these deals are mainly political (and f.e. nuclear deal is surery political) then Saudi can buy any russian arms equipment disregarding any possible quality or maintainance problems. After all, the deal is political. Ofc, i dont see any sence in buying T-90 or even MI-28/35. But for example S-300/400, TOR/Pantsir, T-95, Mi-8/17/26, BMP-3, etc - all these are possible. These are exellent products what either dont have direct western analogy or just superior/very good.

So, if Saudi really wants to please Russia for whatever reason, they certainly can find something to buy.

I see your point, but each of the weapons systems you mention has perfect equivalents available from existing suppliers to Saudi :
> S300 - Patriot PAC3
> T95 - Leo2A6 for example
> Mi8/17 - EH101 for example
> BMP-3 - latest Bradleys for example

So there are smarter ways to make a political point, such as striking a deal over oil & natural gas supply and pipelines, may be even offering minority stakes in Aramco if Saudi is really angry at the US !?

cheers

 

[Chrom]

I see your point, but each of the weapons systems you mention has perfect equivalents available from existing suppliers to Saudi :
> S300 - Patriot PAC3
> T95 - Leo2A6 for example
> Mi8/17 - EH101 for example
> BMP-3 - latest Bradleys for example

So there are smarter ways to make a political point, such as striking a deal over oil & natural gas supply and pipelines, may be even offering minority stakes in Aramco if Saudi is really angry at the US !?

cheers

PAC-3 is cant be compared to S-300PMU2. It is in another range league.

T-95 - same here. If T-95 indeed apears as described - i.e. manless turret - then Leo2A6 is not a concurrent here.

MI-8/17 - while equivalent can indeed be found, but for 3-4 times the price. And with less "multirole". Besides, EH101 for example is more geared towards naval use.

BMP-3 yes, we already gone with this discussion. Bradley is a broad equivalent to BMP-3 in the sence of being IFV - but it lacks many distinct capabilies of BMP-3. What if user wants swimming option? 100mm gun? Gun-launched ATGM's? ERA? I dont even say what BMP-3 is better - but it is certainly much different and as such may be preffered in certain cirumstances.

 

[Chrom]

I see your point, but each of the weapons systems you mention has perfect equivalents available from existing suppliers to Saudi :
> S300 - Patriot PAC3
> T95 - Leo2A6 for example
> Mi8/17 - EH101 for example
> BMP-3 - latest Bradleys for example

So there are smarter ways to make a political point, such as striking a deal over oil & natural gas supply and pipelines, may be even offering minority stakes in Aramco if Saudi is really angry at the US !?

cheers

Saudi, among other thing, might want to demonstrate USA (and West in general) some kind of "independent" weapon aquision capabilty. In the sence - "look, we will happely live without your tanks & planes if needed!"