Saudi Nuclear Program

Izzy1

Banned Member
Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:00 a.m. EST
German Media: Saudis Going Nuclear


"The German magazine Cicero is reporting that Saudi Arabia is working on its own nuclear program with help from Pakistan, a country that already has nuclear weaponry.

Citing Western security sources, Cicero claims Pakistani scientists traveled to Mecca posed as Muslim pilgrims from 2003 to 2005. German security expert Udo Ulfkottee told the magazine that the scientists clandestinely left their pilgrimages for as long as three weeks between October 2004 and January 2005 to help Saudis with nuclear technology.

The magazine claimed satellite images show the Saudi program has been set up in Al-Sulaiyil, a secret underground city south of Riyadh.

Unnamed Western sources told the magazine that Pakistani-Saudi cooperation on nuclear activities was nothing new. U.S. military analyst John Pike said Pakistan’s nuclear weapons include Saudi bar codes "because it is Saudi Arabia which ultimately co-financed the Pakistani atomic nuclear program.”

The Washington Times reported in October 2003 that the countries had finalized a secret agreement on "nuclear co-operation.”
Citing an unnamed Pakistani source, the Times claimed Saudi Arabia was to receive nuclear weapons technology. Pakistan was to receive cheap oil. Both countries deny the existence of such an agreement."



The rumors have been around for quite some time (GlobalSecurity.org has some good insight), but I suspect similar nuclear aspirations in Tehran may now have added impetus to any Saudi nuclear weapons development.

The scenarios and questions in regards to this subject are numerous. For one, I am wondering how this could further effect US-Saudi relations? What is the likelyhood for an intensification of the regional arms race already underway the Gulf - and perhaps even more important, how will Israel respond to the potential of a WMD-armed Riyadh?

From a more technical perspective, I wonder if Saudi will rely on its aged CSS-2 IRBMs to deliver the potential nuclear arsenal? Or are other options available - are for instance more advanced Pakistani or Chinese missile systems an option, even given ballistic missile treaty obligations?

I am not an expert on nuclear matters, but I am pretty certain Saudi does not have any nuclear reactors either - if someone could confirm that, I would be grateful.

I look forward to hearing anyone's opinions.
 

WAR

New Member
Izzy1 said:
Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:00 a.m. EST
German Media: Saudis Going Nuclear


"The German magazine Cicero is reporting that Saudi Arabia is working on its own nuclear program with help from Pakistan, a country that already has nuclear weaponry.

Citing Western security sources, Cicero claims Pakistani scientists traveled to Mecca posed as Muslim pilgrims from 2003 to 2005. German security expert Udo Ulfkottee told the magazine that the scientists clandestinely left their pilgrimages for as long as three weeks between October 2004 and January 2005 to help Saudis with nuclear technology.

The magazine claimed satellite images show the Saudi program has been set up in Al-Sulaiyil, a secret underground city south of Riyadh.

Unnamed Western sources told the magazine that Pakistani-Saudi cooperation on nuclear activities was nothing new. U.S. military analyst John Pike said Pakistan’s nuclear weapons include Saudi bar codes "because it is Saudi Arabia which ultimately co-financed the Pakistani atomic nuclear program.”

The Washington Times reported in October 2003 that the countries had finalized a secret agreement on "nuclear co-operation.”
Citing an unnamed Pakistani source, the Times claimed Saudi Arabia was to receive nuclear weapons technology. Pakistan was to receive cheap oil. Both countries deny the existence of such an agreement."



The rumors have been around for quite some time (GlobalSecurity.org has some good insight), but I suspect similar nuclear aspirations in Tehran may now have added impetus to any Saudi nuclear weapons development.

The scenarios and questions in regards to this subject are numerous. For one, I am wondering how this could further effect US-Saudi relations? What is the likelyhood for an intensification of the regional arms race already underway the Gulf - and perhaps even more important, how will Israel respond to the potential of a WMD-armed Riyadh?

From a more technical perspective, I wonder if Saudi will rely on its aged CSS-2 IRBMs to deliver the potential nuclear arsenal? Or are other options available - are for instance more advanced Pakistani or Chinese missile systems an option, even given ballistic missile treaty obligations?

I am not an expert on nuclear matters, but I am pretty certain Saudi does not have any nuclear reactors either - if someone could confirm that, I would be grateful.

I look forward to hearing anyone's opinions.

Well, if for the sake of discussion, its true that the Saudis are working to get nuclear, then what is so secret and exciting about it. Don't they have a right, being a soverign State to act as per their requirements?

The fact of the matter is, that almost all countries of the world do have a wish and desire to get nuclear technology, both civilian as well as military. And ofcourse, in order to avoid the wrath of the International Community, these programmes are kept secret to its maximum.

Regarding Pakistan's support: The answer is YES as well as NO. Being so closely related to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan can't say NO to any such request. And no one would verify that, or authenticate the doing. But if you ask for an official comment from the Foreign Office of Pakistan, they would surely strongly deny any such move.

Saudis don't have any aggressive designs for any country of the world. Their past track record is very much evident in this regard. They might be heading on such direction to secure themselves from any would-be situation where their existance put on stake.

And finally, the political side: The west has already started beating the Royal family from the stick of human rights and democracy. Meaning that their monarchy might be put on stake in the coming years, which obviously is not a rosy picture for the Royal family. And for that, they can go to any extent to protect their system and themselves.
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
And finally, the political side: The west has already started beating the Royal family from the stick of human rights and democracy. Meaning that their monarchy might be put on stake in the coming years, which obviously is not a rosy picture for the Royal family. And for that, they can go to any extent to protect their system and themselves.


Saudi Arabia has never needed nuclear weapons before to deflect the "beating" as you put it in regards to its Human Rights record. When you control 25% of the world's oil supply, you pretty much are able to do what ever you want regardless. Token comments from the US State Department and the even rarer views of the UK FCO in regards to Saudi rights and democracy are meant more usually for the attention of western NGOs than the Saudi Government itself.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro


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Scorpius

New Member
wow just wow.so err...what will happen now?Saudis are trying make weapons or just have civilian nuclear tech?they have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty.as far as I know they have done nothing to violate it after they signed it,though they did finance Pakistan's nuclear program.

Saudis are not idiots to attack Israel.why the hell would they?they can't risk it and also they are the guardians of two holy cities.
they did plan once to have a program of their own.but after the plan was found they quickly signed the treaty to convince the UN that they are not seeking weapons.

BTW,are silkworms the only missiles KSA got?
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Sorry Scorpius, the missiles are not CSS-N-2s but the actual CSS-2 (Dong Feng-3) Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles.

Saudi bought at least 50 of them from China in the mid-1990s and replaced the usual nuclear warhead with conventional HE. In this form, they have the range coverage to target anywhere in the Middle East - yet they are grossly inaccurate and exceptionally difficult to operate, especially with regards to their liquid propellant. Yet, they do give Saudi a viable option of delivery if ever they were to decide to develop a nuclear program.

With regards to Israel, its not the fear of Saudi attacking them - but Isreal attacking Saudi. Just as in the case of Iraq and now Iran, I doubt Tel Aviv is in any hurry to see Saudi armed with nuclear weapons either.
 

Scorpius

New Member
fine Iran,KSA.and then who?these accusations are BS.

Admin: re the above. can you at least make a reference as to who you are responding to? - it makes tracking answers a bit difficult.

the only correct accusations you can bring against this country is its human rights record.
 
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Awang se

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
It's nothing new really. Saudi Arabia and several Arab countries have been seeking nuclear tech since the 80s following the rumour of Israel nuclear arsenals. American and israel pressure cut short the saudi's nuclear ambition.
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Personally, if I was the Saudi Government and Iran gained a nuclear capability, then I would have no hesitation in developing a counter-capability.

Saudi's long-term aim of a nuclear-free Middle East is a non-starter and she can not relly on the US umbrella protection. Thus she has only one option.
 

SaudiArabian

New Member
intresting and good forum

assalam alaikum all :smilie

i've noticed this report that have spreaded these days from the German magazine and other older reports which claim that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has a secret nuclear program or have aquired nuclear weapons in secret

i assure you all that all of these reports are far from truth and not true because the KSA does not need any kind of WMD and does not own it at all

as for the DF-3A ICBM which KSA have aquired in the 80's , it is only equipped with 750 kg High Explosive warhead and its been brought only to scare the Iranians during the Iraqi-Iranian war not to invade Arabia or any of its other allies and that plan have worked

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does not have any kind of weapons of mass distruction nor any secret contracts with our Pakistani brothers and the reports which talks about it are not different than the reports about the Iraqi weapons of mass distruction during 2001 and 2002 which have been prooved it was untrue

Salam to all and hope for you Izzy1 a nice stay in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia :smilie
 

norinco89

New Member
Saudia Arabian nukes? I dont think so. Pakistan is a alley of the USA and wants to remain one. Saudia Arabia is a alley of the USA too. They depend too much on the US to do something this stupid. I mean who they gonna use the nukes on? Isreal?
 

Soner1980

New Member
The existance of nuclear warheads can help you with the international decisions in conflicts. You have to taken seriously and nukes will passively defend yourself from an attack. No country will attack a country with a nuclear stockpile, and when it does occur, it will be limited like Pakistan and India when they have fought a :gun (guerilla) war few years ago. Not large scale warfare and nukes will give peace. Israel have 200 nuclear warheads known, maybe more, maybe Iran will produce also nukes, Pakistan has 50-75 warheads and now Saudi arabia is also on its way for nukes. Withing a few years, when you see a nuke test on the news, it would be probably Turkey somewhere in 2010 with its first atomic bomb. Time have changed since 11 sept. 2001 gentlemen.
 

SATAN

New Member
This news article is pure RUBBISH . It appeared in 2002 in an indian news rag and apparently has been reprinted to help deflect the controversy on the Dangerous and Illegal Nuclear deal between india and the US.
The ancient and tired accusations of Pakistan helping Saudi Arabia with starting up a nuclear program are about as real as WMDs in Iraq.
 

Soner1980

New Member
Let them built their own nuke bombs. Americans and Soviets have both atomic bombs and there was no war or use of it. atomic weapons will only used in large scale wars I think. When the WW3 broke out, you can better hide in a coal mine :D I think.
 
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