Saudi Fighter Purchase
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
I agree with cyclop if you've seen what kind of footprint Bae has in KSA then you would come to the same assumption, all that would be wasted if they switch Suppliers. UK is a very stable supplier to KSA and i think we do value them as customers. i doubt We've ever given them a reason for swapping suppliers.
Some one told me that Saudis actualy have two requirements.
1. New 4th Gen Front Line Fighter
2. Replacement for F-5 & other junkies.
This F-15 & Tornadoes will stay & go through MLU.
considering 4th Gen Saudis can get EF-2000, although France is involved in heavy marketing of Rafale to Saudis.
Latest F-15s are also on the taqble.
For the replacement of F-5s, Saudis seem to be more interested in F-16s with M2K on the table.
I think EF-2000 & F-16 will do good for them.
1. New 4th Gen Front Line Fighter
2. Replacement for F-5 & other junkies.
This F-15 & Tornadoes will stay & go through MLU.
considering 4th Gen Saudis can get EF-2000, although France is involved in heavy marketing of Rafale to Saudis.
Latest F-15s are also on the taqble.
For the replacement of F-5s, Saudis seem to be more interested in F-16s with M2K on the table.
I think EF-2000 & F-16 will do good for them.
Dessault / France have put Rafale+Mirage2000-5/9 package in front of Saudis but Saudis are more U.S+U.K (with F-5, F-15 & Tornadoes) coustomer than U.S+France (Like UAE:: F-16E/F & M2K9) & F-16 is a proven machine specialy in desert & latest Block 52C/D & 60E/F along with EF-2000 may form a deadly force. For F-5 replacement, F-16 Block 50/52/52+ are more than worthy & valuable replacement.Cyclop said:
AFAIK about Saudi's buying behavior USA & UK will win them. So its more like EF-2000 & F-16s & USA is also marketing latest F-15s to them (what is it F-15K? or some thing).
I dont think Tornadoes or current F-15s will be retired but although they may go through MLUs, Saudis will keep them under consideration before new aircraft purchase. The new aircraft must be able to sustain it self & also full fill the role F-15s & Tornadoes have been performing for them after their retirement.
[Admin Edit: Watch what you post. And it was not the Rafale, it was Swedish Erieye system. See this thread: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Eye Joint AEW Buy ]
It is more than likely the Saudis will purchase the F15, as they had begged the US to sell this plane in the past and apparently paid something towards the Israeli F15I's. So if there are no strings attached with the US offer of F15 then I am sure that the Saudis will jump at the chance. Image is everything to the Saudis and having the most potent US plane will only enhance their image in the Middle East.
It is more than likely the Saudis will purchase the F15, as they had begged the US to sell this plane in the past and apparently paid something towards the Israeli F15I's. So if there are no strings attached with the US offer of F15 then I am sure that the Saudis will jump at the chance. Image is everything to the Saudis and having the most potent US plane will only enhance their image in the Middle East.
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Hussain said:
It's not potent if they don't get the right package, i believe that was one of the issues with the F-15 purchase and E3 Upgrade. It's also about what fits there requirements its not only image they care about they have an Airforce and the money to support it. F-16s were rejected, were they not?
fieldmarshal
New Member
i dont think that at this time the saudis will go for a us fighter as the saudis are looking to diversify their suppliers, so most probabily the saudis will go for the typhoon or the rafale, as both are pushing tooth n nail to get this order and it also might have somthing to do with an ac aqusition by the PAF.
I feel that the SAF will purchase eurofigther over rafale. As already stated, BAe systems has a significant industrial presence in SA. Moreover, the eurofigther is more than likely the "second" best combat aircraft in the 4.5 and 5 generation of combat aircraft. I argue it will certainly outclass F-15 and F-16 varients (both used by israel). If purchased by the SAF, the eurofigther will not doubt be equiped with the meteor AAM (if so choosen) and i am sure an AESA radar, priate IRST and an effective DASS system will be included. Look to the future; F-35 for israel, F-35 and F-18 E/F for the USN carrier groups, and what ever the Iranian AF will have (fulcrum varients and maybe flankers). Personally, I would perfer figthing in a eurofigther if going up against these aircraft in air to air combat. It has an edge with performance; supercruise, raw speed, and excellent avionics. As for the two fligther fleet option for the SAF, I think they'd be well served by either waiting for the F-35 or exspanding the number of the eurofigthers and so embrace the trend of having smaller number of true "swing role" combat aircraft. Of course, waiting for F-35 may well not be an option, however, up-grades of the F-15's (C/S) and Tornado's is a must and logical. I look forward to your thoughts.
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Hello,
Yes i just read in Janes about the americans getting a big slice of the SAF Toranado (IDS) up-grade contract. I agree its an interesting development and not a positive one for BAe. However, upgrades is one thing, a whole line of combat planes is another. Moreover, the laser pod BAe is not particuarlly successful and the RAF have just order 20 litening III for the trache 2 typhoon. So i am not overly concerned with the americans getting the up-grade, it may well be linked to the F-15 upgrades pending, which i feel is singificant in that the SAR certain upgrades to there F-15S fleet. However, anything goes in the modern world of defence purchasing
Yes i just read in Janes about the americans getting a big slice of the SAF Toranado (IDS) up-grade contract. I agree its an interesting development and not a positive one for BAe. However, upgrades is one thing, a whole line of combat planes is another. Moreover, the laser pod BAe is not particuarlly successful and the RAF have just order 20 litening III for the trache 2 typhoon. So i am not overly concerned with the americans getting the up-grade, it may well be linked to the F-15 upgrades pending, which i feel is singificant in that the SAR certain upgrades to there F-15S fleet. However, anything goes in the modern world of defence purchasing
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #16
From what I here, the choice is between Typhoon or Rafale. I honestly have not heard of anything in regards to the F-15.
The key to any deal will be economic offsets and further development of the armed forces - from the current maintanence, infrastructure and training to newer aspects like C4I. With regards to these aspects and the RSAF especially, I feel BAE are in just too strong a position in-country to let the French in.
But you never know!!
The key to any deal will be economic offsets and further development of the armed forces - from the current maintanence, infrastructure and training to newer aspects like C4I. With regards to these aspects and the RSAF especially, I feel BAE are in just too strong a position in-country to let the French in.
But you never know!!
Hello, I agree very much with the aspect, BAe are in a position to offer off sets because of the industrail presence in the Kingdom itself.
Just a thought about the cost of Typhoon and Rafale: The latter is made within one nation and the French are good at controlling costs via effective managment. The former, is made in severial nations and so there is inherent cost in manufacturing that distrubted. My point here is that the Typhoon (my personal preference for names would have been Tempest) will always remain an exspensive combat platform. Another thought, diverisfication of suppliers, if the SAF like UAE and India are going to remain buying from both sides of the world, then a european candidate is well kindly.
Still, I am hopeful that the Typhoon will sell to; SAF, TAF and HAF
Just a thought about the cost of Typhoon and Rafale: The latter is made within one nation and the French are good at controlling costs via effective managment. The former, is made in severial nations and so there is inherent cost in manufacturing that distrubted. My point here is that the Typhoon (my personal preference for names would have been Tempest) will always remain an exspensive combat platform. Another thought, diverisfication of suppliers, if the SAF like UAE and India are going to remain buying from both sides of the world, then a european candidate is well kindly.
Still, I am hopeful that the Typhoon will sell to; SAF, TAF and HAF
I think the general issue seems to be around the quality of the fighter planes that are available in the market place today. In the past US planes were much more superior than their European counterparts. Both Rafale and Eurofighter platforms are as good as the best the US has to offer at present. If the Europeans are willing to provide better radars, electronics and weapons than the US then it is a distinct possibility that the Europeans could beat the US. One major obstacle in the US supplying sophisticated weaponry to the Saudi's could be the Jewish lobby in the US or Israeli concerns. Having said this the US has sold advance fighters to the UAE recently.
I still think the saudi's will go for the F15's with the items they want . After all the F15 has been proven in combat throughout the world and is a stable and very robust flying machine. I don't think there are many fighters that can lose half of their wing and continue flying!
I still think the saudi's will go for the F15's with the items they want . After all the F15 has been proven in combat throughout the world and is a stable and very robust flying machine. I don't think there are many fighters that can lose half of their wing and continue flying!
I agree with the prior statement in reference to the quality of the warplane. I tried to make a similar point eariler on. Both the Rafale and Typhoon are excellent warplanes, my thoughts are than Typhoon will be the better of the two. Has for the F-15, I must agree its have to be a strong contender, but, its no lightweight and its american made. If choosen the SAF will become to dependent on the USA since so much of their fleet will be american made and we do not have to discuss the politcal problems with that. Also, the F-15 is 1970's technology no matter which way you cut it, yes engine, avionics, weapons are all upgraded. However, one would think that one should look forward and so choose a true 4.5/5th generation plane. Choosing a European warplane also leaves open the ability to buy american for the "ligthweight" requirment (F-35, F-18E, F-16 block 52/60) and so politically this will also work for the SAF. :fly :fly