Russian MRCA for Pakistan?

[saberII]

hello to all defence forum members...

recently india has shown great interest in american MRCAs such as FA-18 E/F the 4-4.5 gen a/c.. history tells both countries were in opposite teams in cold war and never realy got along with each other in terms of military ties. now that cold war is over, things have changed both countries are getting along with each other... on the other hand russia's doors were always closed for pakistan, especially military wise. india seems to turn away from russian MRCA for its induction of 126 MRCA, and leaves russia behind. meanwile russia who is looking for serious coutomers for its new SU series fighters has faild to succeed.. pakistan's ACM said that PAF is still searching for 4.5 gen aircraft, but are turned away from its prise tag, and Su-37 suites perfectly in this picture with a prise tag of 40-50 milion dollars...

my question to all forum members do you guys think russia can offer pakistan such deal??? this could benefit both countries.... $$$ for russia and self defence weapons for paksitan....

 

[usama shakeel]

Yaar but what about the f-16 deal?IF PAF is going for F-16 AND JF-17(sure),and in future J-10,how it can go for Su-37?can you tell that when did ACM said this?

 

[saberII]

Yaar but what about the f-16 deal?IF PAF is going for F-16 AND JF-17(sure),and in future J-10,how it can go for Su-37?can you tell that when did ACM said this?

yaar the f-16 deal is US funded, we have not inducted jf-17s yet and about $3 bilion will be spent over 10 years...
so the only AC that we r paying for over 2 years is 36 J-10 ~$1.5 billion.

the su-37 was my words though the ACM did say paf is still lookin for 4.5 gen MRCA

 

[aaaditya]

i dont think russia will sell any combat jets to pakistan because itcurrently has joint projects and other defence deals with india worth atleast 25 billion dollars over the next 10 years .so it will stand to lose a lot according to a report in the hindu newspaper india is also trying to sign a strategic partnership deal with france ,under which india will jointly develop and acquire defence technology from france as well as upto 6 nuclear reactors worth 6 billion euros provided that france restricts its sale of defence technology to pakistan and china.

so i think india will do all it can to restrict russia from selling defence technology to pakistan considering that both india and russia share a time tested and close relationship .

also there is no point in pakistan acquiring russian jets ,since most of them are available with india and indian have a longer operational experience with them.

 

[parm]

i dont think russia will sell any combat jets to pakistan because itcurrently has joint projects and other defence deals with india worth atleast 25 billion dollars over the next 10 years .so it will stand to lose a lot according to a report in the hindu newspaper india is also trying to sign a strategic partnership deal with france ,under which india will jointly develop and acquire defence technology from france as well as upto 6 nuclear reactors worth 6 billion euros provided that france restricts its sale of defence technology to pakistan and china.

so i think india will do all it can to restrict russia from selling defence technology to pakistan considering that both india and russia share a time tested and close relationship .

also there is no point in pakistan acquiring russian jets ,since most of them are available with india and indian have a longer operational experience with them.

I agree with aaditya on this Russian MRCA deal.

 

[tphuang]

yaar the f-16 deal is US funded, we have not inducted jf-17s yet and about $3 bilion will be spent over 10 years...
so the only AC that we r paying for over 2 years is 36 J-10 ~$1.5 billion.

the su-37 was my words though the ACM did say paf is still lookin for 4.5 gen MRCA

and why exactly would PAF want a plane that is just a prototype? I think your enquiry should be su-35. In which case, there is no chance of PAF getting it. Even aside from the Indian objection, it simply doesn't make a lot of sense for PAF to induct a heavy fighter that requires so much upkeep cost.

 

[uaf]

i dont think russia will sell any combat jets to pakistan because itcurrently has joint projects and other defence deals with india worth atleast 25 billion dollars over the next 10 years .so it will stand to lose a lot according to a report in the hindu newspaper india is also trying to sign a strategic partnership deal with france ,under which india will jointly develop and acquire defence technology from france as well as upto 6 nuclear reactors worth 6 billion euros provided that france restricts its sale of defence technology to pakistan and china.

so i think india will do all it can to restrict russia from selling defence technology to pakistan considering that both india and russia share a time tested and close relationship .

also there is no point in pakistan acquiring russian jets ,since most of them are available with india and indian have a longer operational experience with them.

So the whole Indian policy is based to corner Pakistan ?? Right … wow spoken like a true neighbour ... and we still eyeing on long term peace First Russia nor France whats next USA ???

Mr. it wont do any good to the relations and further Pakistan has China as reliable source of defense equipment … No need to induct Russian planes it will be a logistic nightmare

And remember one thing in future Russia will stand by China as natural ally and India with USA so pointing China or Pakistan as potential threat well India will have to work of its foreign policy again …… and you cant predict future Russia may or may not sell equipment to Pakistan considering the rise of China as potential Superpower and Pakistan a close ally ...

Cheers

 

[powerslavenegi]

Each one for Himself

So the whole Indian policy is based to corner Pakistan ?? Right … wow spoken like a true neighbour ... and we still eyeing on long term peace First Russia nor France whats next USA ???

Mr. it wont do any good to the relations and further Pakistan has China as reliable source of defense equipment … No need to induct Russian planes it will be a logistic nightmare

And remember one thing in future Russia will stand by China as natural ally and India with USA so pointing China or Pakistan as potential threat well India will have to work of its foreign policy again …… and you cant predict future Russia may or may not sell equipment to Pakistan considering the rise of China as potential Superpower and Pakistan a close ally ...

Cheers

It is 'Each one for Himself' dude,moreoever India has niether believed nor formed any sort of alliances or military coalitions in the past .As far as relations with Russia,US or any other potential arms supplier are concerned they are purely diplomatic in nature.Coming back to the topic logically speaking Russians have their hands full with orders from Indian Armed forces for at-least another twenty years .I do not think Pak would buy any Military H/W from the Russians(No objections from the Russian side, as long as money keeps flowing they will sell anything to anyone) but they are already getting the weapon systems derived from Russian H/W from the Chinese at a lower price.As for their MRCA req. I think recent consignment of Block-50's was quite a decent force multiplier in that regards.

 

[uaf]

It is 'Each one for Himself' dude,moreoever India has niether believed nor formed any sort of alliances or military coalitions in the past .As far as relations with Russia,US or any other potential arms supplier are concerned they are purely diplomatic in nature.Coming back to the topic logically speaking Russians have their hands full with orders from Indian Armed forces for at-least another twenty years .I do not think Pak would buy any Military H/W from the Russians(No objections from the Russian side, as long as money keeps flowing they will sell anything to anyone) but they are already getting the weapon systems derived from Russian H/W from the Chinese at a lower price.As for their MRCA req. I think recent consignment of Block-50's was quite a decent force multiplier in that regards.

Mr. Powerslavenegi I remember you ... you was the one who was bashing on Pakistan Air force thread without any concrete proves ... ummmm

India has neither believed nor formed any sort of alliances or military coalitions in the past .As far as relations with Russia, US or any other potential arms supplier are concerned they are purely diplomatic in nature

Dude I suggest you to read again the reply of aaaditya Quote

according to a report in the Hindu newspaper India is also trying to sign a strategic partnership deal with France, under which India will jointly develop and acquire defense technology from France as well as upto 6 nuclear reactors worth 6 billion euros provided that France restricts its sale of defense technology to Pakistan and China.

End quote.

It is 'Each one for Himself' dude

Ok fine that explains everything why the hell we trying to go for peace process lets just put forces on the border and fight ?? that’s what u mean … I know the public opinion of India is not like that everyone wants peace … I don’t know which community you represents … everyone for himself and closing doors for other wont give a +ve image to counterpart at all rather enhancing the fear of “ We Cant Be Friends Ever “ and lets just keep on stockpiling WMDs as much as we can


Ok my attention wasn’t at all to start flaming this thread but I had to give this reply apology in advance

In last Mr. Powerslavenegi I hope you will read it again because like I said in past you should read first than write it will always help you … and don’t just give emotional reply … what I said was in reply to something

 

[Big-E]

So the whole Indian policy is based to corner Pakistan ?? Right … wow spoken like a true neighbour ... and we still eyeing on long term peace First Russia nor France whats next USA ???

Mr. it wont do any good to the relations and further Pakistan has China as reliable source of defense equipment … No need to induct Russian planes it will be a logistic nightmare

And remember one thing in future Russia will stand by China as natural ally and India with USA so pointing China or Pakistan as potential threat well India will have to work of its foreign policy again …… and you cant predict future Russia may or may not sell equipment to Pakistan considering the rise of China as potential Superpower and Pakistan a close ally ...

Cheers

You seem be dancing around the real issue here. In your initial question you asked if India's role was to corner Pakistan. The answer is no... India's role is to counter China.(Yes Waylander :lol3 ) Pakistan is a small fry on the international stage, India and China are the two rising military stars and that's what US foreign policy is attempting to prepare for by making sure India is powerful.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Too much of reading

Mr. Powerslavenegi I remember you ... you was the one who was bashing on Pakistan Air force thread without any concrete proves ... ummmm



Dude I suggest you to read again the reply of aaaditya

O o .you got me wrong there infact I was just asking for relevant sources for claims being made by others,right to info you see(of course declassified for that is what we all discuss about here).By the way if you call that bashing I have done the same in threads concerneing IAF and IN too.As for Aaditya's comments,those were his personnal impressions about latest developments between India and EU(which need not be neccesarily a part of India's foreign policy per se).

Ok fine that explains everything why the hell we trying to go for peace process lets just put forces on the border and fight ?? that’s what u mean … I know the public opinion of India is not like that everyone wants peace … I don’t know which community you represents … everyone for himself and closing doors for other wont give a +ve image to counterpart at all rather enhancing the fear of “ We Cant Be Friends Ever “ and lets just keep on stockpiling WMDs as much as we can
Ok my attention wasn’t at all to start flaming this thread but I had to give this reply apology in advance In last Mr. Powerslavenegi I hope you will read it again because like I said in past you should read first than write it will always help you … and don’t just give emotional reply … what I said was in reply to something

Hm. I never discussed about Indo-Pak skirmishes(better we dont ,let us leave that for wretched politicians),infact my post was pertaining to Pakistan's to be MRCA deal with Russia.If you have something to say about the same then we shall continue,anyways as I said before likelyhood of PAF recieving Russain A/C is very bleak(not that Russians arent interested .It is just that after having inducted Block 50's PAF might go in for a lesser expensive and large numbers of J-10's and JF-17 thunders .For numbers do matter).

 

[uaf]

You seem be dancing around the real issue here. In your initial question you asked if India's role was to corner Pakistan. The answer is no... India's role is to counter China.(Yes Waylander :lol3 ) Pakistan is a small fry on the international stage, India and China are the two rising military stars and that's what US foreign policy is attempting to prepare for by making sure India is powerful.

What was the real issue ?? I think the thread is about will Russia sell MRCA to Pakistan that’s it …

But if you read the whole thread than you will understand who said a multi billion dollar deal with France etc etc ( only if u read it OK )

And for you second argument that Pakistan is just a small fry … why this Small Fry (as u said) still there even after 59 years of its existence … there were Russia , China , India around it and far more powerful than Pakistan …

Kiddo remember one thing we aren’t arguing about conventional weapons capability Pakistan can’t match that because of limited resources … but nuclear weapons are made for wide spread destruction in a nuclear war if the Pakistan’s sole existence will be in jeopardy she will make sure no one around her stays alive (Enemy)

 

[uaf]

O o .you got me wrong there infact I was just asking for relevant sources for claims being made by others,right to info you see(of course declassified for that is what we all discuss about here).By the way if you call that bashing I have done the same in threads concerneing IAF and IN too.As for Aaditya's comments,those were his personnal impressions about latest developments between India and EU(which need not be neccesarily a part of India's foreign policy per se).



Hm. I never discussed about Indo-Pak skirmishes(better we dont ,let us leave that for wretched politicians),infact my post was pertaining to Pakistan's to be MRCA deal with Russia.If you have something to say about the same then we shall continue,anyways as I said before likelyhood of PAF recieving Russain A/C is very bleak(not that Russians arent interested .It is just that after having inducted Block 50's PAF might go in for a lesser expensive and large numbers of J-10's and JF-17 thunders .For numbers do matter).

Ok I appreciate that lets get back to the topic

Yea PAF don’t need to go for Russian Planes for now at least because it would be a logistic nightmare … comparing it to IAF , well it is thrice the size of it , IAF can better manage and afford diffrent kinds of Jets.

But as PAF is already going of JF-17 , J-10 and F-16’s no need to induct Russian planes for now … but I have heard that PAF’s chief has remarked that PAF is looking for 4.5/5th generation fighter … what could that be Rafale ??

 

[Archer]

forget it...

 

[Big-E]

What was the real issue ?? I think the thread is about will Russia sell MRCA to Pakistan that’s it …

Then don't go off subject yourself. Your going to tell me to not go off topic when I am responding to your off topic remarks about strategic alliances... grow up.

But if you read the whole thread than you will understand who said a multi billion dollar deal with France etc etc ( only if u read it OK )

And your little joke about French and US Indian alliances is closer to the truth than you know. India is actively seeking strategic alliances and France and the US are listening. They both see China as a road block to Asian markets and India controls the seaways to those markets/ primarily oil.

And for you second argument that Pakistan is just a small fry … why this Small Fry (as u said) still there even after 59 years of its existence … there were Russia , China , India around it and far more powerful than Pakistan …

What does existing have to do with being a major player on the international stage? They are a tertiary color on the Asian canvas.

Kiddo remember one thing we aren’t arguing about conventional weapons capability Pakistan can’t match that because of limited resources … but nuclear weapons are made for wide spread destruction in a nuclear war if the Pakistan’s sole existence will be in jeopardy she will make sure no one around her stays alive (Enemy)

Pakistan only has 25 nuclear weapons, she isn't going to destroy any medium sized country with an arsenal that small. All she can do is whipe out a few major cities. The yeilds on those bombs are fairly weak compared to western standards.

Kiddo... Who are you calling kiddo? I'm older than you...2 years matter of fact. Before you go throwing your arogant presumptions around that I didn't read the thread and that I am a child you might want to examine what YOU wrote before you respond.

 

[aaaditya]

listen uaf ,sorry if i hurt your sentiments ,all i was trying to suggest from my post was that india will actively and sucessfully resist any russian plans to sell combat aircrafts to pakistan.and i dont think russian would want to risk losing one of their biggest customers .india may not mind russia selling a couple of helicopters ,small arms or engines as long as its not cutting edge technology.

there is nothing wrong in a country trying to use diplomatic leverage in securing its own interests,pakistan does it,india does it,china does it and everyone does it,its just a part of the game(everything is fair in love and war).

 

[uaf]

Then don't go off subject yourself. Your going to tell me to not go off topic when I am responding to your off topic remarks about strategic alliances... grow up.

Read again I didn’t even give response to anyone until that France deal etc was mentioned you mean that was not off topic ??? ( additya nothing offence to you i have read your reply and just wont mention it again to you ok )

And your little joke about French and US Indian alliances is closer to the truth than you know. India is actively seeking strategic alliances and France and the US are listening. They both see China as a road block to Asian markets and India controls the seaways to those markets/ primarily oil.

When did I said India aren’t doing that or USA doesn’t want it tobe a close ally , in fact if you read my post again ... which I strongly suggest you sould ... I did say that in near future while China becoming stronger and stronger USA does consider it (India) as natural ally to counter China no argument about it whither it will come up good for south Asian or not … no comment on it

What does existing have to do with being a major player on the international stage? They are a tertiary color on the Asian canvas.

Pakistan is a small fry that’s what you said ok I accept it perhaps I got it wrong my bad

Pakistan only has 25 nuclear weapons, she isn't going to destroy any medium sized country with an arsenal that small. All she can do is whipe out a few major cities. The yeilds on those bombs are fairly weak compared to western standards.
Kiddo... Who are you calling kiddo? I'm older than you...2 years matter of fact. Before you go throwing your arogant presumptions around that I didn't read the thread and that I am a child you might want to examine what YOU wrote before you respond.

For your information Pakistan doesn’t have 25 nuclear weapons my whole family is in army and uncle is use to be the one of 20 most powerful persons in Pak Army and I assure you the facts and figures media is reporting are not up to mark Pakistan can destroy its enemy 5 times … and you should consider it by assuming that there hasn’t been even a single inspection to Pak’s reactors by any independent body or IAEA ( As not signed CTBT or NPT like Israel and India ) , so authentication of your claims 25 is doubted … if you only believe me sorry I can’t name my sources but that’s the truth it doesn’t matter you believe on it or not only the time will tell

If you are 2 years elder than me it doesn’t mean I can’t call you KIDDO … I am managing 500 persons some are 2 years elder than me some are 20 … it doesn’t matter much right.

But I am not a defence expert like you Yea that’s where u got 100 marks against 0 of mine.


Finally to additya sorry from my side too I don’t like political desscussions either we are here just to have a say on something lets just leave it on others you are kool with me always

 

[Big-E]

For your information Pakistan doesn’t have 25 nuclear weapons my whole family is in army and uncle is use to be the one of 20 most powerful persons in Pak Army and I assure you the facts and figures media is reporting are not up to mark Pakistan can destroy its enemy 5 times … and you should consider it by assuming that there hasn’t been even a single inspection to Pak’s reactors by any independent body or IAEA ( As not signed CTBT or NPT like Israel and India ) , so authentication of your claims 25 is doubted … if you only believe me sorry I can’t name my sources but that’s the truth it doesn’t matter you believe on it or not only the time will tell


But I am not a defence expert like you Yea that’s where u got 100 marks against 0 of mine.

:lol3 Oh please... your uncle the 20th most powerful person in Pak! :lol3

You can't reveil your sources eh? Well NRDC says about 25 warheads at .5-1 mgt yield. Thats hardly enough to destroy New Dehli and her suburbs.

Do you really think I'm so stupid as to fall for the my uncle runs the military routine? There was some jerk kid on here a few months ago trying to tell me his uncle was a 4 star Turkish General who thought the US nuclear stockpile there was at his beck and call.:lol3

If your family is so powerful in Pakistan why don't you go back there and live the good life? Why are you here?

 

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