RN Trident Missile System

XEROX

New Member
Submarine-based system is the most likely option

By Michael Evans, Defence Editor

COST is the main factor as defence officials look at replacing Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent, which consists of four Vanguard Class submarines, armed with the American D5 ballistic missile with a British-designed warhead. A land-based or air-launched missile system looks less favourable. It might seem less expensive to build silos in some corner of Britain or adapt bombers to take nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. But neither option is attractive, either militarily or politically.


The maximum range for a cruise missile, under current technology, is about 1,850 miles. A bomber carrying cruise weapons would have to fly closer to the target before releasing them. The same argument goes for submarines with nuclear cruise missiles.

A ground-based system would invite Greenham Common-style demonstrations and would be more vulnerable to pre-emptive attack by a nuclear-armed enemy. A submarine-launched ballistic missile, on the other hand, has a range of 7,500 miles and can reach its target in 30 minutes.
However, submarines are hugely expensive to build, which is why the Government is likely to favour one of two options now being examined: either to extend the life of the Vanguard Class boats, the first of which is due to end its service life by 2023 or 2024, or to adapt the Royal Navy’s latest Astute Class submarines, three of which are now being built.

The cost would be considerable for either option but the bill for taxpayers would be lower than having to design and build a new submarine class. In all three cases, a commitment to retain submarines as the delivery system would safeguard thousands of jobs at Barrow and sustain the technological expertise that has kept this country in the forefront of submarine construction.

Britain has always been dependent on the US for supplying ballistic missiles, and this is unlikely to change. Although the French are developing a new submarine-launched missile, the M51, buying it would seem out of the question for political and practical reasons.
The British have a unique arrangement with the US Navy, under which all the Trident D5s for the Vanguard Class submarines are leased from a pool of missiles. The deal appears to have worked without a hitch.

The Americans are expected to upgrade the Trident D5s and eventually replace them with new ones, called Trident E6. Britain could follow suit, provided the timing was right, but lease fewer missiles. The warhead would still be designed at Aldermaston, the atomic weapons establishment in Berkshire.

No reliable cost figures have yet been produced, but the Vanguard Class Trident system cost about £10 billion, and a replacement seems likely to be £12 billion to £15 billion.

Britain has spent only about 4 per cent of its defence budget on nuclear systems, and the Government will not want to increase that when considering a Trident replacement.
Link

This debate about the future of Trident has been going on for the best part of a year but surfaced last night, The U.K Chancellor has come under fire after stating in a speach he wants to renew Britain's nuclear deterrent.

The problem with replacing/upgrading the submarine-based Trident missile system is that it could cost up to £25bn ($45bn).

-The RN has 4 Vanguard Class boats each carrying 16 Trident missiles, is such a nuclear deterant worth it??






 

XEROX

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Well we operate [SIZE=-1]continuous at-sea deterrence, our policy is that out of the 4 submarines, 1 boat will always be patrolling with its 16 missiles onboard.

Our House of commons (senate) defence committee looked at replacing SLBMs with land based silos or a/c with cruise missiles but thought it would be more expensive. (even more then $45bn [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]:confused:)[/SIZE]
 

Miles

New Member
I don’t think that the costs will be as high as mentioned.

Option 1: Extend the life of the Vanguard. This would be cheaper than new build and have the benefit of not needing any new facilities, etc etc. But, there is only so much you can do with an old boat, especially a nuclear one without the cost going way OTT.

Option 2: Build a stretched Astute class. I think this idea is best as you get brand new boats, and then the Royal Navy would be operating one version of boat, which means savings on operating and training costs, equipment procurement etc. I do not think that the future deterrent needs 16 missiles (each with several warheads) in the post-Soviet world. A stretched Astute would only need half a dozen missiles, three per side mounted outside of the pressure hull. This would be more than enough of a deterrent, and would not change the shape of the stretched Astute's too much. Also, by reducing the number of missiles and warheads in total that the UK owned then we wouldn't necessary be in breach of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Because the Astute's will never need refuelling this will mean much reduced in-life costs.

If we retain a nuclear deterrent then it HAS to be sea based. The big problem with nuclear weapons is that in a tense political situation the temptation would be to use your missiles before you lose them, thus risking starting a war in a panic. The big advantage of submarine based missiles is that even if London is taken out etc, the deterrent is still there, available, if needed, and if not needed you haven't fired them by accident. And if you doubt the importance of that then think of this: 7,500 miles in only 30 minutes....
 

XEROX

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Option 2: Build a stretched Astute class. I think this idea is best as you get brand new boats, and then the Royal Navy would be operating one version of boat, which means savings on operating and training costs
Using Astutes would be a very good move, they are very capable and stealthy boats, comparable with USN Virginia class, but i dont know if they would be open to this idea, they could design and build new subs and get in with the Trident E-6 program.

Extending the life of the Vanguards could be the cheaper, but replacing Trident with a "european" missile could be possible, maybe from France.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Keep your options open. Extend the lives of the Vanguards if necessary. A smaller sized class of submarine with fewer missiles will also keep the deterrent up. By no means eliminate the Trident force unless its in a cooperative agreement to ban all nuclear weapons.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Sea Toby said:
Keep your options open. Extend the lives of the Vanguards if necessary. A smaller sized class of submarine with fewer missiles will also keep the deterrent up. By no means eliminate the Trident force unless its in a cooperative agreement to ban all nuclear weapons.
Agree that for the moment extending service lifes of the Vanguards is the best option. Long term, I would equip all Astutes with nuclear warheads on their Tomahawks. Range is obviously shorter than Tridents, but honestly it's enough of a deterrent...
Some targets far away from the sea may be beyond range, but most cities are well within range of a submerged SSN.
It's a matter of choosing : if keeping a nuclear deterrent means abandoning carrier programmes or reducing SSN numbers further, then is it really worth it ? Besides the fact that the US would obviously retaliate if a rogue country attacked the UK.
 

mark22w

New Member
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
Well we operate [SIZE=-1]continuous at-sea deterrence, our policy is that out of the 4 submarines, 1 boat will always be patrolling with its 16 missiles onboard.

Our House of commons (senate) defence committee looked at replacing SLBMs with land based silos or a/c with cruise missiles but thought it would be more expensive. (even more then $45bn [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]:confused:)[/SIZE]

I understood the Vanguard SSBNs in taking on a sub-strategic role now carried 10-12 Trident missiles (no longer 16) with a third of the missiles configured with a single warhead for 'sub-strategic' tasking. The remaining missiles with multiple warheads however under a maximum cap per submarine of 48 warheads.

At the end of the day the UK doesn't want to get out of sync with the USN. I recall reading somewhere that should the RN or USN have to launch a Trident missiles, its going to be real tough reading the small print on the side telling you who launched!
 

contedicavour

New Member
mark22w said:
I understood the Vanguard SSBNs in taking on a sub-strategic role now carried 10-12 Trident missiles (no longer 16) with a third of the missiles configured with a single warhead for 'sub-strategic' tasking. The remaining missiles with multiple warheads however under a maximum cap per submarine of 48 warheads.

At the end of the day the UK doesn't want to get out of sync with the USN.
Very interesting. I take it as an additional proof that Astutes with nuclear-warhead Tomahawks could do the job ;) if there weren't enough resources to build CVs and replace Vanguards :(

cheers
 

mark22w

New Member
Yes, interesting to speculate on the number of vertical tubes required in any future ‘stretched’ Astute SSN/SSGN if the Vanguards are sailing with let’s say 8 Tridents fitted for ‘strategic’ purposes. One might see a larger number of Astutes with four tubes, some of which could be fitted with the Tomahawks (seven missiles per tube) and Trident, others with one or the other…

That would keep the opposition guessing and ensure the bombers have a more useful role in future without putting all ones eggs in a single basket ;)
 
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