Question on Officers in Aus Army

[Brycec]

For the life of me I can't find this info on the website.
If I wanted to join the army as an officer, and join the RAAC once I had finished my officer course, how does one go about it?
I'm guessing I'd have to join as a General service officer. But how do i specify where I want to go after that? Or do I just get sent wherever I'm needed?

Not quite sure where I stand on this one, i could be way off.

 

[Big-E]

I have some questions about this...

Where do Aussie officers come from? Do you have an equivalent to West Point/ Naval Academy? to ROTC? to OCS? What is the major source of your officer corps? Do you feel this major source is the best source for quality officers? Could more capital be expended to increase the prepardness of officers into the ADF? If university is a path to being an officer are their any institutions in Oz that don't allow an ROTC type program?

 

[Todjaeger]

I have some questions about this...

Where do Aussie officers come from? Do you have an equivalent to West Point/ Naval Academy? to ROTC? to OCS? What is the major source of your officer corps? Do you feel this major source is the best source for quality officers? Could more capital be expended to increase the prepardness of officers into the ADF? If university is a path to being an officer are their any institutions in Oz that don't allow an ROTC type program?

There is the ADFA (Australian Defence Force Academy) which offers a university education provided in partnership with the University of NSW. As part of that, there is I believe some military training and familiarization, not unlike that found in US service academies I believe. I also believe that a number of the universities have training regiments (some of which support Australian cadet schemes) which function much like US ROTC programs do. Not sure exactly what it's called though. I believe that last stop for ADF officers (or at least for Army) is RMC (Royal Military College) Duntroon, which is modeled after Sandhurst. It teaches the military skills required to serve as an officer.

This is what I've gleaned on the subject, interested to hear what else anyone can add (or correct).

-Cheers

 

[old faithful]

I have some questions about this...

Where do Aussie officers come from? Do you have an equivalent to West Point/ Naval Academy? to ROTC? to OCS? What is the major source of your officer corps? Do you feel this major source is the best source for quality officers? Could more capital be expended to increase the prepardness of officers into the ADF? If university is a path to being an officer are their any institutions in Oz that don't allow an ROTC type program?

There are two systems that i know about. One is Tri-service...Navy Army and Airforce. this establishment is called ADFA (Australian Defence Force Academy)
and is basically a military run University, where prospective officers combine studies with military training applicable to their service. they gain a degree and on completion of their 4-5 year stint there,then march out as Liuetentants or equivilent.

the other (for army) is RMC Duntroon. (Royal Military College). This is purely Army training for 18 months. They study tactics,history work health and safty and learn how to play mess rugby and sing silly songs etc etc: . It is a demanding course. They learn everything they need to be a platoon comd in INFANTRY. They will be assesed as they go,and the students with the best results have first pick of which corps they would prefer. Thats not to say that the plebs go to infantry though. If an officer passes the course,he is fit to serve in any corps. the allocation depends on the students overall results and the staff (instructors) recomendations. Duntroon does not give you a degree,and some corps or jobs require a degree...such as pilots i think.If you already have a degree,then RMC is the go,or if you are a warry bastard and want to be a grunt boss,then RMC is the go, however,if you wanted to be a fighter pilot,and had no degree,then you would apply to ADFA.

 

[Brycec]

There are two systems that i know about. One is Tri-service...Navy Army and Airforce. this establishment is called ADFA (Australian Defence Force Academy)
and is basically a military run University, where prospective officers combine studies with military training applicable to their service. they gain a degree and on completion of their 4-5 year stint there,then march out as Liuetentants or equivilent.

the other (for army) is RMC Duntroon. (Royal Military College). This is purely Army training for 18 months. They study tactics,history work health and safty and learn how to play mess rugby and sing silly songs etc etc: . It is a demanding course. They learn everything they need to be a platoon comd in INFANTRY. They will be assesed as they go,and the students with the best results have first pick of which corps they would prefer. Thats not to say that the plebs go to infantry though. If an officer passes the course,he is fit to serve in any corps. the allocation depends on the students overall results and the staff (instructors) recomendations. Duntroon does not give you a degree,and some corps or jobs require a degree...such as pilots i think.If you already have a degree,then RMC is the go,or if you are a warry bastard and want to be a grunt boss,then RMC is the go, however,if you wanted to be a fighter pilot,and had no degree,then you would apply to ADFA.

Ah! it all makes sense!
...But how do you know what degree you will need (or even if you need one) to join a corp as an officer?

 

[old faithful]

not to sure about which degree for what...maybe GF can help with that one,or see a recruiting centre. Arts degree might help you in ordenancenfloorl:

 

[Tasman]

Have a look at the following websites. The first is the Royal Military College (RMC) of Australia website (Duntroon)

http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/rmc/

The second is the Australian Defence Force Academy (ADFA) website:

http://www.unsw.adfa.edu.au/adfa_defence/index.html

I think they you will find that they will provide the info you need. The RMC website also contains information about the University Regiments which train officer cadets for the Reserve in association with RMC.

Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

Ah! it all makes sense!
...But how do you know what degree you will need (or even if you need one) to join a corp as an officer?

If you want to be a pilot in ANY of the 3 services, you need a Science based degree. End of story. If you wish to be in Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Combat Engineers etc, I don't think it matters.

In fact, for ALL the other Corps, as far as I'm aware, you don't "need" any degree per se to be an officer, though it certainly helps. It is also possible to accept an offer to go to RMC Duntroon and train as an officer, if you are a private soldier or NCO/SNCO as well, demonstrating that you do not "need" a degree.

However as a Commissioned officer, you WILL need a Degree to get promoted to the higher ranks. To achieve rank beyond Major, I believe you need a "Masters" Degree, though don't quote me on that. It's a LONG time since I saw the actual requirements. The ability to speak a foreign language fluently was ALSO a requirement...

It is also possible to serve as a Digger, NCO, SNCO and finally Warrant Officer and subsequently be promoted to Commissioned officer rank, through an internal Army scheme. However I believe Captain is as far as you can go that way, without having been Commissioned through RMC Duntroon.

As far as ADFA goes, I understand you are fairly restricted in the types of degree's you can get through this scheme, though the University of NSW actually provides you with the degree so at least it's worth something, outside ADF.

As Tod mentioned every state in Australia has "University Regiments". These are reserve formations which you join should you wish to become a reserve officer.

Basically you do a series of "modules" at RMC Duntroon (over a 2 year period, I think it's 4x modules of 4 weeks each or 8x module of 2 weeks each, something like that anyway) at your particular UR (I am only familiar with QUR - Queensland University Regiment, having "played enemy" on a couple of exercises for them) after completing basic training the SAME as every other Dig, as an officer cadet.

At the completion of this you are commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in Army and attached to a particular unit. You are not qualified to command a platoon at that point however, you need to work for a while, completel in-service training etc and become qualified for promotion to full Lieutenant for that.

Hope this helps...

 

[Brycec]

If you want to be a pilot in ANY of the 3 services, you need a Science based degree. End of story. If you wish to be in Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Combat Engineers etc, I don't think it matters.

In fact, for ALL the other Corps, as far as I'm aware, you don't "need" any degree per se to be an officer, though it certainly helps. It is also possible to accept an offer to go to RMC Duntroon and train as an officer, if you are a private soldier or NCO/SNCO as well, demonstrating that you do not "need" a degree.

However as a Commissioned officer, you WILL need a Degree to get promoted to the higher ranks. To achieve rank beyond Major, I believe you need a "Masters" Degree, though don't quote me on that. It's a LONG time since I saw the actual requirements. The ability to speak a foreign language fluently was ALSO a requirement...

It is also possible to serve as a Digger, NCO, SNCO and finally Warrant Officer and subsequently be promoted to Commissioned officer rank, through an internal Army scheme. However I believe Captain is as far as you can go that way, without having been Commissioned through RMC Duntroon.

As far as ADFA goes, I understand you are fairly restricted in the types of degree's you can get through this scheme, though the University of NSW actually provides you with the degree so at least it's worth something, outside ADF.

As Tod mentioned every state in Australia has "University Regiments". These are reserve formations which you join should you wish to become a reserve officer.

Basically you do a series of "modules" at RMC Duntroon (over a 2 year period, I think it's 4x modules of 4 weeks each or 8x module of 2 weeks each, something like that anyway) at your particular UR (I am only familiar with QUR - Queensland University Regiment, having "played enemy" on a couple of exercises for them) after completing basic training the SAME as every other Dig, as an officer cadet.

At the completion of this you are commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in Army and attached to a particular unit. You are not qualified to command a platoon at that point however, you need to work for a while, completel in-service training etc and become qualified for promotion to full Lieutenant for that.

Hope this helps...

So, as far as I know by now... I would have to go to Royal Military College Duntroon to become lieutenant for the RAAC, and do an 18 month course, without any need for a degree.
Correct?

 

[Aussie Digger]

So, as far as I know by now... I would have to go to Royal Military College Duntroon to become lieutenant for the RAAC, and do an 18 month course, without any need for a degree.
Correct?

Essentially, yes.

A degree would certainly improve your chances of being selected in the first place, but I do not believe it is essential that you have one to be accepted for RMC Duntroon.

Down the track in your career as an officer however, it WILL become essential...

Once you complete RMC Duntroon, you will then go to Puckapunyal where you will learn how to operate and maintain a particular type of armoured vehicle, then how to operate the main weapon systems and finally how to command a vehicle and then a troop.

Then you'll be posted to your Regiment. I imagine you'll do another 12-18 weeks training on TOP of Duntroon prior to hitting your Regiment.

 

[Brycec]

Essentially, yes.

A degree would certainly improve your chances of being selected in the first place, but I do not believe it is essential that you have one to be accepted for RMC Duntroon.

Down the track in your career as an officer however, it WILL become essential...

Once you complete RMC Duntroon, you will then go to Puckapunyal where you will learn how to operate and maintain a particular type of armoured vehicle, then how to operate the main weapon systems and finally how to command a vehicle and then a troop.

Then you'll be posted to your Regiment. I imagine you'll do another 12-18 weeks training on TOP of Duntroon prior to hitting your Regiment.

Thanks for your help mate. As usual, good advice, and thanks for putting everything in perspective.

 

[old faithful]

As AD pointed out, to progress past Major,you will need a degree. If you seriously want to go down this path,then i suggest do youre degree prior to RMC. Army ADFA cadets still spend some time at RMC after they attain their degree. Not sure of the length of time, but they do the dreaded EX Timor as well!

 

[Brycec]

As AD pointed out, to progress past Major,you will need a degree. If you seriously want to go down this path,then i suggest do youre degree prior to RMC. Army ADFA cadets still spend some time at RMC after they attain their degree. Not sure of the length of time, but they do the dreaded EX Timor as well!

As far as i can see, im gonna need a degree. Thx again

 

[rickshaw]

It is also possible to serve as a Digger, NCO, SNCO and finally Warrant Officer and subsequently be promoted to Commissioned officer rank, through an internal Army scheme. However I believe Captain is as far as you can go that way, without having been Commissioned through RMC Duntroon.

PSO - Prescribed Service Officer - is a SNCO, usually WO^2 or higher who has either been selected or applied to become an officer. PSO'd officers can reach the rank of Major but are limited in what roles they can fulfill. When first introduced, they could not have a command position (and it was limited to Captain or below IIRC). I am unsure if that has now been waived. Most PSO'd officers tend to be senior WOs with considerable experience in their corps.

Another method of entry to the Officer corps has not been mentioned - direct entry. If a highly skilled professional such as a doctor or a lawyer enlists, they are given a direct commission. This includes a short-course but not necessarily in the military arts. Instead they're taught how to salute and square-bash to the point where they won't be quite as embarassing as they could be. :lol:

 

[icelord]

I have some questions about this...

Where do Aussie officers come from? Do you have an equivalent to West Point/ Naval Academy? to ROTC? to OCS? What is the major source of your officer corps? Do you feel this major source is the best source for quality officers? Could more capital be expended to increase the prepardness of officers into the ADF? If university is a path to being an officer are their any institutions in Oz that don't allow an ROTC type program?

Our Army officers attend Royal Military College Duntroon, this tends to go for 18 months and although you can preference your application, you could wind up anywhere depending on the ADF Requirments. ADFA Graduates attend Duntroon after their studies are completed. At ADFA they gice RAAF and RAR students a quick pre-ADFA training about Marching, saluting and all the little things to ensure it maintains itself as a military Academy, although these days its more to do with University they Academy, with emphasis on study over military. So much for Soldier first.

The Navy attend HMAS Creswell at Jervis bay. This goes for 6 months. Afterwards officers will most likely end up staying on at Creswell or going to Garden Island in Sydney for Employment training. The Navy gets AFDA applicants to do 6 months officer training before attending the academy.

The Air-Force are trained at RAAF Base Williams in Victoria. this goes for 9 months i think. Most Air force officers could end up at williamtown, amberly or Edinburgh for further training. Pilots go to tamworth.

The all ADF pilots attend Tamworth for pre-flight testing and selection into a service before officer training. With the ADF you can preference a service but you may not end up there. Army applicants may end up in the navy, and since so many apply for the air force they push some to army or navy instead.
Following piloting Navy pilots go to Nowra for training on squirrels but this will be done on the A109s in the near future.

The ADF established the Australians Defence College, a seperate instituition to ADFA to allow for serving officers to gain more training and qualifications, i believe they used to attend ADFA but now go to ADC for their courses, but you may find some courses still have snr officers at ADFA.

 

[Brycec]

The all ADF pilots attend Tamworth for pre-flight testing and selection into a service before officer training. With the ADF you can preference a service but you may not end up there. Army applicants may end up in the navy, and since so many apply for the air force they push some to army or navy instead.
Following piloting Navy pilots go to Nowra for training on squirrels but this will be done on the A109s in the near future.

dude thats horse shit. So I could apply to go to RAAC and end up in the fucking navy? Why don't they tell you this on the damn website. Im really starting to get pissed off with all this hidden bullshit that they don't tell you about.
And if I qualify from the ADFA I would have to spend another imps of 9 years in the service that i get put in right?
I guess this shows me how important these kind of sites are, without this I'd probably be on my way to getting locked into a boat for a good part of my life without even knowing it.

 

[Todjaeger]

dude thats horse shit. So I could apply to go to RAAC and end up in the fucking navy? Why don't they tell you this on the damn website. Im really starting to get pissed off with all this hidden bullshit that they don't tell you about.
And if I qualify from the ADFA I would have to spend another imps of 9 years in the service that i get put in right?
I guess this shows me how important these kind of sites are, without this I'd probably be on my way to getting locked into a boat for a good part of my life without even knowing it.

I could be mistaken, but I believe specificaly that applying for Army but getting posted to the RAN situation is if one enters for pilot training. If one isn't going into the student-pilot program, I don't think that would happen. After all, there's a big difference between wanting to go Armour to rumble around, or getting the sinking feeling that submariners get...

-Cheers

 

[Brycec]

I could be mistaken, but I believe specificaly that applying for Army but getting posted to the RAN situation is if one enters for pilot training. If one isn't going into the student-pilot program, I don't think that would happen. After all, there's a big difference between wanting to go Armour to rumble around, or getting the sinking feeling that submariners get...

-Cheers

yeah, ok thats a little better. thx man.

 

[icelord]

It only applies to pilots! Pilots are few and far and everyone wants to fly a hornet, yet only a few have the stamina to do it. Thats why they do about 3 weeks? at Tamworth, so as to work out who goes where. Army and navy pilot applicants may end up on the other side due quotas or availabilities, although with new Helos coming in next year the army will get first pick at its crew. The Idea is the Service picks you when it comes to pilots.

although i have heard some cases at kapooka where guys goes into DFR, asks bout trade as Mechanic in RAAF, and yet he was at ARTC doing RAEME as he was sweet talked by recruiter as there was not enough openings in RAAF(he dropped out anyway and the army was better off) Just make sure your determind to do it, and just have patience, i've had my case where nothing gets done for so long and then all at once your on the bus to training. For some reason DFR are incompetant fools who like to drag their feet round until its time for you to go, its best to be physically and mentally ready before interviews as it shows alot more and you can take first entry date available at Kapooka... Which is a barrel of fun of course.

 

[lilkev8504]

Just wanna clear up some minor misconceptions about Officers or some things that may have changed within the last 6 months (having recently gone through some of the officer application process, specifically pilot).

Army Officers do 18 months at Duntroon, the majority of these applicants are Direct Entry Officers - point being you dont need a degree to fill these positions, however, selection is very competitive obviously. There is also a SSO Program for people with qualifications.

Piloting roles DONT require any degrees. I walked into the recruiting office with Year 12 Physics/Chemistry/Maths B/Maths C(Extension)/Graphics under my belt and an OP9. I failed my Maths C, and got C's/B's for my other subjects. I got kicked out of a UQ Bachelor of Music program in 2004 due to my dwindling GPA. I consider myself a very intelligent person, however, I made some bad choices at the end of school which made all my grades suffer.

Knowing all this, I applied to be a pilot in the army (1st pref) at the end of 2006 after working on a cattle station for 2 years. I blitzed all the aptitudes apparently, including the extra technical testing. This was noted by my recruiting officers and the officer panel, and despite my 'misgivings' for a few bad years of my life - they just put it down to an unfortunate misdirection. The panel informed me that "90% of kids going through school are probably a bit slack" (their actual words) and they took that into consideration.

Point I'm trying to make is that they'll accept just about anybody into the Direct Entry Officer program, as long as they demonstrate maturity, intelligence, and an excellent speaking ability. If your under 20yo, chances are they'll turn you away looking for people with more life experience. At the time of applying I was 22.

The pilot selection process is as follows:
Job Options Evaluation (aptitudes and job options interview)
Reflex Testing (dont know what its called, basically clicking moving boxes on a computer screen)
Flight Screening (2 weeks @ Tamworth)
Officer Panel Interview

Unlike other DE-Officers, Army Pilots only spend 6 Months at Duntroon (Class III) and then head to wherever it is they train the pilots in Queensland somewhere, forgot where exactly. Also, whilst I'm unsure about exactly what ADFA cadets go through with regards to their studys/officer training, I understand that ADFA Officer Cadets join the Class II Staff Cadets at RMC-D every January and complete the final 12 months of Officer training full-time at RMC-D upto Graduation.

At the end of the Duntroon FT GSO Program, ALL cadets list preference of Corps (IE. Infantry, Armor, Signals etc.) and the Army tries to place them into their preference. This is COMPLETELY regardless of what GSO Occupation you may have chosen on your JOEs. You won't ever have your service changed however, IE. you'll never complete an Army GSO course and be sent to be a Airforce/Navy Officer.

Only Pilots are distributed amongst the different services. Successful completion of pilot selection will see ALL pilots put into a pool where the Services assess their needs and pick out pilots accordingly. Potential pilots have the choice to then accept a services offer, or wait it out for another service to offer a position pending availabilty.

I'm not a pilot, but have experienced most of the selection process involved.