Question on aircraft characteristics

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
I was wondering what the differences are in aircraft that are navalised or setup for maritime strike roles. Are there any particular differences in construction or maintenance required due to operating in areas where the aircraft is/can be exposed to salt air? Or is this not a significant concern?

Take for example, a Hawk 100-series or Hawk 200-series aircraft. In order to be roled for regular maritime strike or patrol work, is there anything required to do so? Beyond the fitting of appropriate weaponry, sensors and possible external fuel tanks I mean. Does the wing/airframe need to be made out of specific materials, or does it require a special paint job, or need to be hosed down regularly?

Basically wondering what the effects/differences are for regular operations over the ocean as opposed to operating over land.

Thanks
 

Cailet

Member
I think they tend to have toughened airframes, especially the landing gear because of the shock of impact and deceleration on a carrier deck.

Don;t know about the nitty-gritty maintainence aspects but I remember collapsing landing gear being a major issue with navalised aircraft.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
or does it require a special paint job, or need to be hosed down regularly?
The RAAF Orions do have a special paint mix that was developed in conjunction with DSTO. (LO issue at a Mk 1 eyeball level)

Aviation paint is also a completely different beast.

I was involved with a wind turbine enhancement project in the US a few years back, one of the things we looked at was painting the towers in aviation grade paint. It would have cost approx 15% more but changed the surface life by almost 300% - and certainly would outlive the 1st major maint overhaul (20-25 year mark)
 

chrisrobsoar

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I was wondering what the differences are in aircraft that are navalised or setup for maritime strike roles. Are there any particular differences in construction or maintenance required due to operating in areas where the aircraft is/can be exposed to salt air? Or is this not a significant concern?

Take for example, a Hawk 100-series or Hawk 200-series aircraft. In order to be roled for regular maritime strike or patrol work, is there anything required to do so? Beyond the fitting of appropriate weaponry, sensors and possible external fuel tanks I mean. Does the wing/airframe need to be made out of specific materials, or does it require a special paint job, or need to be hosed down regularly?

Basically wondering what the effects/differences are for regular operations over the ocean as opposed to operating over land.

Thanks
Obviously many changes would be required if the aircraft was required to operate from a carrier, but I assume that this is not part of your question.

As you mention the key to maritime operation is corrosion caused primarily by salt spray, but also by high concentrations of the salt in damp air.

There are several factors: the length of time the aircraft is exposed, the concentration level of the salt, humidity & temperature.

In turn these are dependent on the type of operations the aircraft will be engaged in and at what altitude.

If the aircraft spends most of the time flying at 1,000m over the sea it will be exposed to a low concentration of salt, where as an aircraft, such as a helicopter spending much of the time hovering less than 30m will be exposed to high concentrations of salt.

If the aircraft are based close to the sea, less than 3km then aircraft parked outside will be exposed to medium levels of salt concentration. In this situation aircraft should be stored in hangars.

Aircraft designed for continued exposure to high concentrations of salt are constructed with materials that resist corrosion. They are also designed to avoid difficult to reach areas where corrosion can build up and is difficult to detect.

From the maintenance point of view the best way to minimise corrosion due to salt is to wash the aircraft after each flight. It is important that the water does not flush the salt into areas of the aircraft where in can do more damage; so appropriate sealing has to be considered in designing the aircraft. Special greases are often used to prevent the high-pressure spray washing the lubricant out of bearings etc.

Helicopters in particular are washed in what the US call a “bird-bath”.

The same applies to the sensors and weapons that are exposed the salt rich environment, particularly those that rotate such as turret heads.

In the case of the Hawk aircraft even in the maritime strike or patrol role, it is likely to be flying for relatively short periods 1-4hrs at relatively high altitudes 1,000m.

On strike runs it may operate down on the deck, but not for very long.

Neither the 100 or 200 series aircraft were specifically designed for maritime work, so they were not constructed using corrosion resistance material. However the T-45 Goshawk was designed for the maritime environment. If a country wanted to operate the Hawk in the manner described, a quick check with BAE Systems and they would be able to advise, which areas were modified on the T-45 to mitigate against corrosion.

As a precaution the surface coatings should be upgraded to resist additional abrasion cause by salt crystals while flying at speed close to the surface of the sea and the necessary repeated washing of the aircraft.

Modern washing systems can include additives in the water that can neutralise the affect of residual salt left on the surface of the aircraft, some materials change colour to provide an indicator of where extra washing is required. If a proper washing pan is used, most of the washing water is recovered and recycled.

When an aircraft is operated outside the environment for which it was originally designed additional maintenance is required. In this case further inspections of the aircraft looking for corrosion would be required. If the aircraft is used for additional low flying then it is likely to pull more g in the turns (the air is denser), so inspections looking for metal fatigue would also increase. (Often metal fatigue is increased by a corrosive atmosphere).


In summary

I do that think that it would be either necessary or practical to modify Hawk 100 or 200 aircraft for use in a maritime role.

It would be prudent to check what changes were made to the T45 when it was navalised.

An improved paint finish is desirable.

Regular washing and a revised inspection schedule are all that would be required on the maintenance front.

The Hawk variant used would require, a radar with lookdown capability with air-surface modes, external fuel tanks and with air to air refuelling capability. The drawback is that it has a low wing so it would be difficult to integrate large Air to Ship missiles.

As far as the basic aircraft is concerned operating the Hawk is a maritime role would be relatively straightforward.

The drawback with this aircraft in this role is the lack of range.



Chris
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks Chris for the info. Yeah, I was thinking more of land-based Hawks, not carrier capable.

Basically I was interested in what could be done (or what would be needed) to carry out maritime patrol/strike, particularly in an adhoc situation. Like if Indonesia had to carry out a strike, or Australia but the F-111, F-18 or P-3s were "occupied".

-Cheers
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks Chris for the info. Yeah, I was thinking more of land-based Hawks, not carrier capable.

Basically I was interested in what could be done (or what would be needed) to carry out maritime patrol/strike, particularly in an adhoc situation. Like if Indonesia had to carry out a strike, or Australia but the F-111, F-18 or P-3s were "occupied".

-Cheers
I notice in the RAAF website that the two Hawk lead in fighter squadrons both have an operations flight for fleet and army support.

http://www.raaf.gov.au/organisation/info_on/units/index.htm

I know this is for training purposes but it does suggest that skills are being developed which could be handy if air support for the navy or close air support for the army is required. I guess that what would be needed to go with the skills of the airmen would be suitable weapons for the Hawks to deploy.

The Airforce website lists the following armament for the Oz Hawks:

The Hawk 127 armament system provides for the carriage, aiming and release or firing of practice and Mk 82 bombs, AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles and a 30mm cannon. The stores are carried on two wingtip missile stations or pylon-mounted on four underwing and one centreline hardpoints. A 30mm Aden cannon carried in a gunpod can be installed on the centreline station in place of the pylon. Stores are controlled by the integrated stores management system (SMS).
http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hawk.htm

Can anyone advise whether any other suitable weapons, which could be used on the Hawk, are held in RAAF stocks.

From what has been said in other threads re weapon stockpiles held by the RAAF, I am pessimistic about the answer.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
I notice in the RAAF website that the two Hawk lead in fighter squadrons both have an operations flight for fleet and army support.

http://www.raaf.gov.au/organisation/info_on/units/index.htm

I know this is for training purposes but it does suggest that skills are being developed which could be handy if air support for the navy or close air support for the army is required. I guess that what would be needed to go with the skills of the airmen would be suitable weapons for the Hawks to deploy.

The Airforce website lists the following armament for the Oz Hawks:



http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hawk.htm

Can anyone advise whether any other suitable weapons, which could be used on the Hawk, are held in RAAF stocks.

From what has been said in other threads re weapon stockpiles held by the RAAF, I am pessimistic about the answer.
RAAF Hornets used to carry 2.75inch FFAR rockets, which I suppose could be used by a Hawk, if RAAF still operate same. The only other operational air to surface weapons in RAAF inventory (that I'm aware of) beside Mk 82, are the other Mk 80 series bombs and GBU series bombs, Harpoon missiles and Popeye missiles.

RAAF doesn't operate any specific CAS weapons like Maverick or Brimstone etc, no specific SEAD weapon and doesn't yet operate JDAM or JASSM. MAybe a 500lbs class JDAM could be operated by the Hawks, but there seems to be very few available weapons types in RAAF inventory that our Hawks could use in their current configuration.

Perhaps if the Hawk were equipped with a laser targeting pod (say the Hornets ex "Nitehawks") they could carry LGB's and JDAM's and thereby increase their utility?

Magoo might be able to more specifically answer this though?
 

Magoo

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I notice in the RAAF website that the two Hawk lead in fighter squadrons both have an operations flight for fleet and army support.

http://www.raaf.gov.au/organisation/info_on/units/index.htm

I know this is for training purposes but it does suggest that skills are being developed which could be handy if air support for the navy or close air support for the army is required. I guess that what would be needed to go with the skills of the airmen would be suitable weapons for the Hawks to deploy.
The 'ADF support' role of the Hawks is not training fo the Hawks, but is, in the case of the Navy, training fo radar operators and weapons operators on board ship. Somethimes the Hawk will fly in close formation with an F-111 or Hornet, and be 'released' by the attacking aircraft and fly a sea-skimming missile profile straight at the ship, pulling up at just the last moment. The jets are now fitted with emulators which mock the radar seeker head of a sea-skimming anti-ship missile too.

For Army work, the jets work closely with JFAC, special forces and other troops in the close air support role, but again, this is for the training benefit of the Army folks, not the pilots.

The Hawk's subsonic performance is sufficient that it can be used in such scenarios just as effectively as a Hornet or Pig, yet at a quarter or less of the cost.

Both 76 and 79 SQNs have permenant members (as opposed to transient pilots on their way to fast jets) who are trained in BFM and can, as a last line of defence, fly the jets in a point defence role if required.

Re weapons, the Hawk is restricted basically to 'point and shoot' weapons, as it does not have the avionics displays nor the electronic backbone required to support more sophisticated guided weapons.

I suppose at a pinch it could carry and release a couple of 500lb or a single 1000lb LGB (ground clearance issues?) which could then be 'buddy-lased' by another aircraft with a pod or by a ground based JFAC, but again, this is a highly unlikely tactical scenario and one which would not be trained for.

I believe the ADF's stocks of unguided CRV-7 rockets were retired with the UH-1H Bushrangers. So, it's basically restricted to the centreline gun, AIM-9M Sidewinder, and Suu-20/BDUs in practice.

Cheers

Magoo
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Both 76 and 79 SQNs have permenant members (as opposed to transient pilots on their way to fast jets) who are trained in BFM and can, as a last line of defence, fly the jets in a point defence role if required.

Re weapons, the Hawk is restricted basically to 'point and shoot' weapons, as it does not have the avionics displays nor the electronic backbone required to support more sophisticated guided weapons.

I suppose at a pinch it could carry and release a couple of 500lb or a single 1000lb LGB (ground clearance issues?) which could then be 'buddy-lased' by another aircraft with a pod or by a ground based JFAC, but again, this is a highly unlikely tactical scenario and one which would not be trained for.

I believe the ADF's stocks of unguided CRV-7 rockets were retired with the UH-1H Bushrangers. So, it's basically restricted to the centreline gun, AIM-9M Sidewinder, and Suu-20/BDUs in practice.

Cheers

Magoo
Would the Hawk be able to use RAN Penguin AShM stocks in a pinch? IIRC they are mostly autonomous (sp?) relatively short-legged AShM. Not sure if the initial guidance is from the launch vehicle or the missle itself.

With Hawk 200-series, do the usual on board avionics support LGB?

Granted, not the sort of op desired, but it would be nice to have an emergency capability, just in case.

-Cheers
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Would the Hawk be able to use RAN Penguin AShM stocks in a pinch? IIRC they are mostly autonomous (sp?) relatively short-legged AShM. Not sure if the initial guidance is from the launch vehicle or the missle itself.

With Hawk 200-series, do the usual on board avionics support LGB?

Granted, not the sort of op desired, but it would be nice to have an emergency capability, just in case.

-Cheers
Without an EO/IR targetting pod and the MFD's to display the data, I very much doubt the Penguin could be operated from the Hawk. I don't doubt the Hawk's could be reasonably easily upgraded to provide greater combat capability, but the money could probably be better spent elsewhere. A few mods, such as replacing Sidewinder with ASRAAM, perhaps a basic EWSP system etc could enhance the utility of the platform, but might not be worth it...
 
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