I've read a lot of press about military aviation, and recently with the Typhoon entering service I have seen a ton of press on the RAF and Luftwaffe's squadrons being formed. I would like to know what are the current capabilities of the the Italian and Spanish Eurofighters. I know recently the small number IAF aircraft have been used CAP duties for the Olympics and visiting dignitaries. How is the progress going with both airforces and when is their full operational date going to occur?
Progress of Spainish and Italian Eurofighters?
- Thread starter LancerMc
- Start date
Hi LancerMC,
altough my data is a little dated, I know that the Eurofighter program is running at the same paces relatively speaking for all partner countries. So I expect Spain and Italy to have the same milestones or lagging behind only a little bit due to national differences in airframes and testing.
Input from other posters is highly appreciated ;-)
altough my data is a little dated, I know that the Eurofighter program is running at the same paces relatively speaking for all partner countries. So I expect Spain and Italy to have the same milestones or lagging behind only a little bit due to national differences in airframes and testing.
Input from other posters is highly appreciated ;-)
contedicavour
New Member
Well latest news from Italy is that we've got some 25 operational Typhoons, most -B version and all of the 1st Batch. That batch should be completed by the end of 2007, then deliveries of Batch 2 should arrive quickly.
Most operational planes are based in Grosseto (4th air group) in Southern Tuscany in 2 wings which are used for air defence with Amraam AIM120B (eventually replaced by Meteor) and AIM9L and the 27mm gun.
Next in line, the base in Puglia of Gioia del Colle (36th air group), which used to house Tornado ADV on lease from the UK, then F16 replacements for the 2 air groups operating them.
Priority will clearly be enhancing air defence, as Tornado IDS/ECR and AMX fighterbombers (and AV8B Plus of the Navy) will be replaced by F35A/B as of 2014.
cheers
Most operational planes are based in Grosseto (4th air group) in Southern Tuscany in 2 wings which are used for air defence with Amraam AIM120B (eventually replaced by Meteor) and AIM9L and the 27mm gun.
Next in line, the base in Puglia of Gioia del Colle (36th air group), which used to house Tornado ADV on lease from the UK, then F16 replacements for the 2 air groups operating them.
Priority will clearly be enhancing air defence, as Tornado IDS/ECR and AMX fighterbombers (and AV8B Plus of the Navy) will be replaced by F35A/B as of 2014.
cheers
contedicavour
New Member
They (especially Batch 2 & the not confirmed Batch 3) will carry Storm Shadow standoff missiles, JDAM and Paveways. However if the F35A/B is procured (as seems 95% sure) then the Typhoons will remain in air defence role. From time to time training will occur in fighterbomber role but it will remain secondary.
From an organizational point of view, our Air Force has an air defence division and a fighterbomber division. All Typhoons will be in the former.
cheers
In Spain, the first unit receiving the eurofighter is the Ala 11 of Morón AFB with two active squadrons (111 and 113)
The units predicted to receive the Eurofighter are the Ala 11 (11 Wing) with squadrons 111, 112 and 113 [UCO unit] of Morón AFB and the Ala 14 with squadrons 141 and 142 of Los Llanos AFB (Now with F-1M).
The sixteen purchase options are predicted to be executed for the replacement of the F-18A Ex-US Navy based on Gando AFB around 2010-2012.
The last official data about the number received by the Spanish Air Force is of October 2006, 15 received by the Ala 11, plus the Eurofighter owned by CASA.
The first combat ready mission of the Spanish Eurofighters will be carried out during the NATO meeting of Sevilla. The air component of the security deployment include four Typhoon, four EF-18A+, four C-101 Aviojet, three AWACS E-3 Sentry from the NAEW Force & two helicopters AS-332 Super Puma.
The units predicted to receive the Eurofighter are the Ala 11 (11 Wing) with squadrons 111, 112 and 113 [UCO unit] of Morón AFB and the Ala 14 with squadrons 141 and 142 of Los Llanos AFB (Now with F-1M).
The sixteen purchase options are predicted to be executed for the replacement of the F-18A Ex-US Navy based on Gando AFB around 2010-2012.
The last official data about the number received by the Spanish Air Force is of October 2006, 15 received by the Ala 11, plus the Eurofighter owned by CASA.
The first combat ready mission of the Spanish Eurofighters will be carried out during the NATO meeting of Sevilla. The air component of the security deployment include four Typhoon, four EF-18A+, four C-101 Aviojet, three AWACS E-3 Sentry from the NAEW Force & two helicopters AS-332 Super Puma.
More news about the progress of the Eurofighter programe.
* * *
Type Acceptance for Block 5 Standard Eurofighter Typhoon
15 February 2007
Hallbergmoos – The Eurofighter Typhoon weapon system has received Type Acceptance from the NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency NETMA for the final Tranche 1 standard, known as Block 5. These aircraft represent the last build standard in Tranche 1 and, with the R2 Retrofit programme ongoing across the four Partner Air Forces, will be the standard to which all earlier Eurofighter Typhoons are brought up to. This will also be the capability standard of the 18 aircraft on order to the Austrian Air Force.
The first Block 5 aircraft (Spanish Single-seater SS011) took off for its first flight already on 21 December 2006 from Getafe near Madrid.
Eurofighter GmbH CEO, Aloysius Rauen, comments:
“This Type Acceptance is the last step, before we close the first chapter of Eurofighter Typhoon development with achieving the final results of the Main Development Contract by the end of the year. As the aircraft will be facing continuous upgrades throughout its service life, developing Eurofighter Typhoon capabilities will be a major task for industry. The next steps are already in the planning stages, with the integration of a Laser Designator Pod into Tranche 1 aircraft of paramount importance to the Royal Air Force in 2008. In addition, discussions on the future capabilities, to be defined by the customer for the near and the long term, are drawing to a close.”
The Block 5 capabilities can be described as full air-to-air and initial air-to-ground capability with full carefree handling. The aircraft is cleared for the 9g envelope as intended, with additional features such as sensor fusion, the full Direct Voice Input, enhanced GPS, the DASS (Defensive Aids Sub-System) countermeasures including automatic Chaff and Flare dispensers, radar air-to-surface modes including ground mapping, and initial FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red).
In terms of weapons, the Block 5 Eurofighter Typhoon will be equipped with AMRAAM, ASRAAM, IRIS-T and the proven AIM-9L air-to-air missiles, plus the laser-guided bombs Paveway II and GBU-16. External fuel tanks are certified for supersonic flight, while air-to-air refueling is cleared for all customer specified tanker types.
Combined with the Type Acceptance of the Block 5 aircraft, the enhanced ground equipment for use with the Block 5 standard is now cleared for use, including a more capable version the Ground Support System.
The R2 Retrofit programme, to bring all the earlier Eurofighter Typhoons up to the Block 5 standard, is proceeding well with six aircraft now in retrofit (three in Germany, two in the United Kingdom and one in Spain) and a seventh (UK) soon to join the project. The first aircraft is expected to be finished and returned to the customer in the near future.
* * *
Bellow some pic of the first flight of the Block 5 (Dec 21, 2006) from Eurofighter.com
* * *
Type Acceptance for Block 5 Standard Eurofighter Typhoon
15 February 2007
Hallbergmoos – The Eurofighter Typhoon weapon system has received Type Acceptance from the NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency NETMA for the final Tranche 1 standard, known as Block 5. These aircraft represent the last build standard in Tranche 1 and, with the R2 Retrofit programme ongoing across the four Partner Air Forces, will be the standard to which all earlier Eurofighter Typhoons are brought up to. This will also be the capability standard of the 18 aircraft on order to the Austrian Air Force.
The first Block 5 aircraft (Spanish Single-seater SS011) took off for its first flight already on 21 December 2006 from Getafe near Madrid.
Eurofighter GmbH CEO, Aloysius Rauen, comments:
“This Type Acceptance is the last step, before we close the first chapter of Eurofighter Typhoon development with achieving the final results of the Main Development Contract by the end of the year. As the aircraft will be facing continuous upgrades throughout its service life, developing Eurofighter Typhoon capabilities will be a major task for industry. The next steps are already in the planning stages, with the integration of a Laser Designator Pod into Tranche 1 aircraft of paramount importance to the Royal Air Force in 2008. In addition, discussions on the future capabilities, to be defined by the customer for the near and the long term, are drawing to a close.”
The Block 5 capabilities can be described as full air-to-air and initial air-to-ground capability with full carefree handling. The aircraft is cleared for the 9g envelope as intended, with additional features such as sensor fusion, the full Direct Voice Input, enhanced GPS, the DASS (Defensive Aids Sub-System) countermeasures including automatic Chaff and Flare dispensers, radar air-to-surface modes including ground mapping, and initial FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red).
In terms of weapons, the Block 5 Eurofighter Typhoon will be equipped with AMRAAM, ASRAAM, IRIS-T and the proven AIM-9L air-to-air missiles, plus the laser-guided bombs Paveway II and GBU-16. External fuel tanks are certified for supersonic flight, while air-to-air refueling is cleared for all customer specified tanker types.
Combined with the Type Acceptance of the Block 5 aircraft, the enhanced ground equipment for use with the Block 5 standard is now cleared for use, including a more capable version the Ground Support System.
The R2 Retrofit programme, to bring all the earlier Eurofighter Typhoons up to the Block 5 standard, is proceeding well with six aircraft now in retrofit (three in Germany, two in the United Kingdom and one in Spain) and a seventh (UK) soon to join the project. The first aircraft is expected to be finished and returned to the customer in the near future.
* * *
Bellow some pic of the first flight of the Block 5 (Dec 21, 2006) from Eurofighter.com
contedicavour
New Member
I'll add a bit of news from Italy too.
There is a discussion underway whether the F35A/Bs will replace entirely or partially the Tornado IDS/ECR squadrons. Primarily F35s will replace AMX and AV8Bs and then a good part of the Tornado.
However, if no more than 100 F35s are procured, then the Typhoon Batch 3 becomes indispensable to replace a couple of Tornado squadrons, especially the 50° based in Piacenza (ECR focus). Batch 3 would thus be mainly a fighterbomber.
Anyway, we're still a few years away from final decision, so let's see.
cheers
There is a discussion underway whether the F35A/Bs will replace entirely or partially the Tornado IDS/ECR squadrons. Primarily F35s will replace AMX and AV8Bs and then a good part of the Tornado.
However, if no more than 100 F35s are procured, then the Typhoon Batch 3 becomes indispensable to replace a couple of Tornado squadrons, especially the 50° based in Piacenza (ECR focus). Batch 3 would thus be mainly a fighterbomber.
Anyway, we're still a few years away from final decision, so let's see.
cheers
I would also be sceptical if the F-35 or EF are able to match the capabilities of the ECR Tornados when it comes to SEAD missions.
At least in Germany the planning is that the ECRs are the last Tornados to be retired somewhere in the not so near future.
At least in Germany the planning is that the ECRs are the last Tornados to be retired somewhere in the not so near future.
Dear Waylander, please don't get me wrong, but I am already sceptical about the ECR combat effectiveness, because of what serbian friends of mine told me. It has nothing to do with pilot skills. I have always thought that Luftwaffe is the best air force in NATO. I lived for half a year in Regensburg and had the opportunity to see both JBG-32 and JG-74 in the air, they're awesome! Bitte, sei nicht boese auf mich! Es ist ueberhaupt nicht persoenlich
No offense taken.
It was just a pure question about capabilities.
And what I have read about the performance of the ECRs during the Kosovo Campaign was good.
They outperformed the F-16 Wild Weasels and were able to open the corridors for the bomb trucks.
Just on one occassion on of our Tornados had to get rid of its external fuel and flee because of a MiG-29 appearing and no friendly CAP close enough.
But the MiG-29 was not able to follow the Tornado deep and fast so the ECR remained unharmed.
The Wild Weasel missions done by Tornados and F-16s were successfull.
The attack on the serbian army was the one which was not that successull.
It was just a pure question about capabilities.
And what I have read about the performance of the ECRs during the Kosovo Campaign was good.
They outperformed the F-16 Wild Weasels and were able to open the corridors for the bomb trucks.
Just on one occassion on of our Tornados had to get rid of its external fuel and flee because of a MiG-29 appearing and no friendly CAP close enough.
But the MiG-29 was not able to follow the Tornado deep and fast so the ECR remained unharmed.
The Wild Weasel missions done by Tornados and F-16s were successfull.
The attack on the serbian army was the one which was not that successull.
Scorpion82
New Member
Dear Waylander, please don't get me wrong, but I am already sceptical about the ECR combat effectiveness, because of what serbian friends of mine told me. It has nothing to do with pilot skills. I have always thought that Luftwaffe is the best air force in NATO. I lived for half a year in Regensburg and had the opportunity to see both JBG-32 and JG-74 in the air, they're awesome! Bitte, sei nicht boese auf mich! Es ist ueberhaupt nicht persoenlich
So what did your Serbian friends told you?
Scorpion82
New Member
The Recces might be as long in service as the ECRs. The end of service has not yet been determined. The ECR Tornados are the newest examples, with less hours on their airframes.
I see no problem in matching the ECRs capabilities. Meanwhile more advanced systems has become available than the ELS. To remain competitive the ECR would need a more capable system like the FELS, but this hasn't been ordered to my knowledge.
Scorpion82
New Member
The Eurofighter's defeault ESM system is already very capable and I could imagine that it is even more effective than the ELS of the Tornado. The Typhoon's ESM is able to identify and precisly locate radar emitters at long distances in excess of 100 km. I think the question to ask is, will there be ARMs? HARM integration is offered by the manufacturer, ARMIGER is only a demonstrator with an uncertain future and AFAIK the Luftwaffe is more looking for UCAVs for the SEAD role to replace the ECR. If the AMI really intends to replace its ECRs with Eurofighter I see no real problem.For sure there are better systems available.
I just have no idea if there are plans to implement any of them into the german and italian EFs or italian F-35s.
Because of this I asked.
contedicavour
New Member
The Italian Tornado ECR will be the last to be decommissionned so for the moment I don't see Harm integration on the Typhoons or even on the first F35s.
cheers
cheers