Pakistani Women to Fly Fighter Jets

[P.A.F]

http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2005-05/11/article02.shtml

ISLAMABAD, May 11, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Masculinity is no longer a condition to be a fighter pilot in the Muslim world as Pakistan has allowed women to enroll at its Air Force Academy.​

A newspaper advertisement seeking female cadets has stricken a responsive chord with many female pilot hopefuls, the BBC News Online reported Tuesday, May 10.
There are now 10 women in two batches in the flying wing of the academy with many more competing with men in the engineering and aerospace wing.
The head of the onetime male-dominated Pakistani Air Force Academy, Air Vice Marshal Inam Ullah Khan, told the BBC that the female cadets have done better than expected.
A Dream Come True


http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2005-05/11/images/pic02.jpg

“I always wanted to be a fighter pilot,†said Khan. (BBC)



For Saba Khan and her Air Force colleagues it was like a dream come true.
“I always wanted to be a fighter pilot, and eventually with Allah's wish and the full support of my parents, I made it this far,†Khan told the BBC.
Inspired by her uncles who had been captains themselves, Khan hopes that the unprecedented experience would provide inspiration for many other girls in the country.
Words failed Khan’s colleague to explain who she felt when she was trained in flying propeller planes.
Cadet Ambreen Gill told the BBC that she hoped soon to fly combat aircraft like F-16s.
And the female cadets do not want their male peers to show any sort of compassion, but rather want them to prove competitive.
“We don't expect compassion, we don't get compassion, and we don't want compassion,†Saman Ahmad told the British Broadcaster.
And Ahmad does match words with deeds. In a rifle exercise, shot all five bullets right in the bull's eye to the envy of the male cadets, according to the BBC.
Due to religious traditions, the academy segregates between female and male cadets in physical exercises.
Islam does allow women to play a leading role in society and has granted them with wide-ranging freedoms.
Women used to be in charge of the market place during the time of Caliph `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab. Women have recently become doctors, scholars, muftis, ministers and judges.

_________________________________________________

Good stuff!!!
​

 

[mysterious]

Here's the genuine report:

Pakistan's first women fighter pilots

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) academy has been all-male for more than 55 years - but now it is going through major change.

Women are now allowed to enrol on its aerospace engineering and fighter pilot programmes and are doing rather well. To the great surprise of many men, some of the female recruits will soon start flying jet-engine planes.

Male cadets are having to come to terms with the fact that masculinity itself is no longer a condition for reaching this prestigious institute.

There are 10 women in two batches in the flying wing of the academy. Many more are competing with men in the engineering and aerospace wing. These trailblazers may still be few in number, but many instructors and even some male cadets admit their presence is already being felt.

'Lifelong dream'

Until recently, most women in this conservative Muslim society would more likely have imagined marrying a dashing fighter pilot than being encouraged to become one.

But this was not true for Saba Khan, one of four female cadets to make it through the gruelling first stages of training.

Coming from an enlightened Pathan family in Quetta, capital of otherwise conservative Balochistan Province, Saba was initially inspired by one of her uncles who had been in the air force.

And she says the first newspaper advertisement seeking female cadets was like a dream come true.

"I always wanted to be a fighter pilot, and eventually with Allah's wish and the full support of my parents, I made it this far," she said.

And Saba believes the first batch of women could provide much-needed inspiration for many other girls, who may follow suit. Beaming with excitement, another aviation cadet, Ambreen Gill, said it was impossible for her to explain how she felt when she flew a propeller plane.

She said she hopes soon to fly the jets on her own, and perhaps at some stage even state-of-the-art combat aircraft like F-16s.

'Equals'

The air force academy is still male-dominated, and it's not clear what the real feelings of the male cadets have been to the induction of women onto the fighter pilot programme.

Officially, most have welcomed the move.

But when one male cadet said the women should be shown compassion, female cadet Saman Ahmed was swift to say they were there to compete on equal terms.

"We don't expect compassion, we don't get compassion, and we don't want compassion," she said.

And this confidence is not without reason for Cadet Ahmed has already won praise in her engineering studies, beating both men and women.

Her excellence is not confined to the classroom, either.

During a rifle exercise, I watched as she shot all five bullets right in the bull's eye.

Segregation

Many senior air force officials point out that bringing women into armed forces combat units has been a difficult decision in many countries.

In Pakistan the challenges of doing so were even bigger.

It's not just about size or strength - cultural and religious matters were also to be taken into account.

The head of the PAF academy, Air Vice Marshal Inam Ullah Khan, admits they had to take certain cultural sensitivities into account. But he says allowing women to enrol has been a good experience, and some of the female cadets have done better than expected.

The academy maintains a degree of segregation between genders.

Although women march should-to-shoulder with their male counterparts during early-morning parade, some parts of the training, particularly physical exercises, are carried out separately.

"It's quite important that we maintain this level of segregation, mainly because we are a Muslim society," says squadron leader Shazia Ahmed.

A psychologist by training, and in charge of the female cadets, she says "in some ways it also gives these girls the much required confidence before they take up the bigger challenges".

But there is no compromise on standards - the women must achieve the same levels of performance as the men, or face being dropped from the programme.

For the moment it seems the few who have joined the ranks are doing extremely well.

And if that continues, when the current batch passes out in a year these cadets will become the first-ever women fighter pilots in Pakistan's history.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4533367.stm

Now thats the way Pakistani girls should go grab their dreams and not just sit at home waiting to get married. Great achievement! I'd say, when you got potential, dont care about social taboo, go and show the world what you're made up of!

 

[kashifshahzad]

Do any country have female pilots in their Air Force of Pakistan is the first in this aspect . Pakistan do not have female soldiers in its Army but some Doctors and nursing staff are female i think female Doctors and nurces are in every force . Yeah ladies do work in Police

 

[highsea]

Do any country have female pilots in their Air Force of Pakistan is the first in this aspect .

The US has had women pilots for many years, starting with the Army and Navy in 1974. The Air Force followed suit 2 years later. In 1993, the rules were changed to allow them to fly in combat missions. The first one to fly combat missions was in 1995 (an A-10 pilot). We have women flying helicopters, B-52's, F-14's, F-18's, F-16's, and just about everything else, including the Space Shuttle.

 

[rajupaki]

i think that this is the exprimentl batch of ladies fighter pilot becacuse i am currently a candidat for PAF as a GD pilot and there were no girls candidates with us during tests, intviews and medical tests. THE results fom this batch will definatly go in favour of ladies and i hope that now our airforce will also get some GLAMOUR!

 

[Aussie Digger]

The ADF allows women to serve in every role except that of direct ground combat, ie: infantry, armour, artillery and Special Forces including Navy Clearance Divers. Otherwise there's no limits. Australian women can fly fighter jets, attack helo's or serve on warships or submarines or any job they want to try...

 

[rafale_2k5]

Personally speaking this whole idea seems to have stemmed from this new wave of modernization, theres no shortage of young boys eager to join PAF as fighter, plus we have to see the roles a a particular society transcends upon gender issues. Our society unlike the west does not treat them as peers , scondly fighting is a mans job i firmly believe!!! women may be incorporated in desk assignments/ logistics but purely from a military pont of view i cant understand the type of BULL SHIT PAF has come up with if its true , they donot have the luxury like super power to waste thir precious limited resources on such type of undrtakings!!!!1

 

[BilalK]

rafale_2k5

If you truelly believe that the PAF is a place where the strongest survive, then during the fighter conversion, this female cadet shouldn't pass, but if she does, you do know this means she beat many of her male peers flat out!

 

[srirangan]

Good news coming out, but let's hope meritocracy prevails
Those feminists can be a P in the A

 

[adsH]

Those feminists can be a P in the A

You got it right!! dam its hard to work with a really competitive woman, (don't get me worong here : i love women. but they aren't the easiest to work with) they don't end up being team member they turn in to a Splinter Faction with a leader.

 

[adsH]

scondly fighting is a mans job i firmly believe!!! women may be incorporated in desk assignments/ logistics but purely from a military pont of view

Wommen perform better under stress and there physiology makes them more suited to being a fighter pilot i don't understand why you can't see it. they can concentrate allot better. women for some odd reason have a higher G lock tolerance (vascular system has differences), so i think they are well suited to being a pilot and your right fighting isn't a woman's job thats why they are never deployed as Front line infantry (Anywhere in the world). but they can be anything else they want to be, except Submarine Duties in the navy.

 

[srirangan]

I really won't make any broad generalizations. Just let the best person serve.

 

[roadrunner]

Originally posted by adsh
Wommen perform better under stress and there physiology makes them more suited to being a fighter pilot i don't understand why you can't see it. they can concentrate allot better. women for some odd reason have a higher G lock tolerance (vascular system has differences), so i think they are well suited to being a pilot and your right fighting isn't a woman's job thats why they are never deployed as Front line infantry (Anywhere in the world). but they can be anything else they want to be, except Submarine Duties in the navy.

:coffee

Well, i dont care if women serve in the armed forces or not. If they can do a better individual job than a man can, then good luck to em.

Not sure what you mean by women perform better under stress and they have a physiology more suited to being a fighter pilot.

When you say G lock tolerance, i take it you mean they can stand more G-force than a man. Do you have a link for this? It might be true..

 

[adsH]

:coffee

Well, i dont care if women serve in the armed forces or not. If they can do a better individual job than a man can, then good luck to em.

Not sure what you mean by women perform better under stress and they have a physiology more suited to being a fighter pilot.

When you say G lock tolerance, i take it you mean they can stand more G-force than a man. Do you have a link for this? It might be true..

Its was in a study conducted by the USAF. And i don't have a link but i'm sure you can find it some where on the web. Women Vascular strucutre allows better Blood flow

The main effect of G-forces is grey outs and black outs from blood being forced away from the brain. Body shape has no affect. but there blood vessels can supply blood under higher g-forces. now that doesn't mean instantly that they can concentrate better then us (but they tend to black out less). every individual is different largely depends on individuals physiology but most Air-forces like German Air-force have a minimum Criteria regarding G- Tolerance (at time of entry).


i kind of like this article read it. Damn it must of been hard for women 10 years ago. Apparently women weren't allowed to own properties here in the 60's. Dmn!!
http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/news03/uns03295.htm


And do read this as-well. this one is about the first Saudi Woman pilot LOL!! the comments from her family LOL http://www.artarabia.com/artman/publish/article_107.shtml

 

[roadrunner]

Originally posted by adsh
Its was in a study conducted by the USAF. And i don't have a link but i'm sure you can find it some where on the web. Women Vascular strucutre allows better Blood flow

Sorry, I had a quick look but couldnt find the report. I am not sure that the answer is as simple as the vasuclar structures being different.

What i read on the internet was that women are more prone to something known as orthostatic hypotension. Orthostatic hypotension causes dizzyness when the body goes from laying to standing due to insufficient blood flow to the brain when the effects of gravity reduce blood flow to the brain. The body has to readjust the blood pressure quickly to counter the reduced blood flow to the brain else you get a temporary blackout. Orthostatic hypotensions is not a disease, but it's more common in women than men. It occurs due to the baroreceptors (blood pressure detectors of the body) being less sensitive in women than men. This is mentioned in the following article:

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/?id=GENDER.PH2

These data support the hypothesis that baroreflex sensitivity for control of sympathetic outflow is diminished in women. The details regarding the effect of gender on baroreflex sympathetic control remain unclear.

You could compare this to a flight situation. In a vertical lift, a person would be in the laying down position (gravity not affecting blood flow to the brain), and then when a sudden movement to level, horizontal flight occurs, the person would assume the standing position (gravity reduces blood flow). In this situation men's reflexes would adjust them quicker to the change in position and they would be less likely to suffer from dizzy spell. This situation probably would occur in a dogfight.

The main effect of G-forces is grey outs and black outs from blood being forced away from the brain. Body shape has no affect. but there blood vessels can supply blood under higher g-forces. now that doesn't mean instantly that they can concentrate better then us (but they tend to black out less). every individual is different largely depends on individuals physiology but most Air-forces like German Air-force have a minimum Criteria regarding G- Tolerance (at time of entry).

Not sure about this. Again can't see the reason, and it seems to contradict this site:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/PhillipAndriyevsky.shtml

It has also been shown that men have a higher tolerance to g's than women. Women fighter pilots have a lower g tolerance during menstruation so the time of the month will affect a women tolerance for high g endurance.

Well, the menstruation thing is new. Never crossed my mind

 

[Attila]

All this talk of women in the airforce and all these questions about physiology....maybe someone should recruit a military doctor for the forum so that we can get some factual stats and info? Not saying that the stuff provided isn't factual, just would be nice to get it from a medical point of view.

In the olden days, men were depended upon to look after their countries because it was the noble thing to do. Kids needed heroes, and heroes had to be male.

It was also highly believed that women would stay home and mind the house, eagerly awaiting their love to come back home so that they could embrace each other and ensure that they could keep the population up. Never knew if the man was going to be back so he had to have a couple of sons in order to keep the numbers the same and for there to be a future generation of fighters for the country.

Since the global population has seen an increase in the number of women and with the position of women no longer being in the home is almost universal, the military deems it ok to have women in frontline positions. No risk to the population because there'll always be a 3:1 ratio on the homefront since more baby girls were born than boys.

Apparantly another reason females weren't allowed in the military is because they show too much compassion in the battlefield. Their conscience would bother them if they were to kill someone, whereas in the male psychie we know that we have to survive over those things which threaten us.

Sorry for the ramble...lol

 

[adsH]

Apparantly another reason females weren't allowed in the military is because they show too much compassion in the battlefield. Their conscience would bother them if they were to kill someone, whereas in the male psychie we know that we have to survive over those things which threaten us.

l

in the battle feild women are still not allowed as front line GI's (at the least i think so) mainly because they aren't stronger then men (you can have exception, statistically speaking) but in most cases they will be physically less capable then men. when it comes to flying high tech assets where you need physiological strength and metal abilities i think women can do just as-well as men, and given the fact that women tend to be touchy on topics of equality. you may have some adrenaline infused inflation stats when they compete LOL!!


The fact is. to become a fighter pilot you need a mind set you need to be brutal at times without loosing objectivity. you need to be disciplined extremely prone to the attitude of self sacrifice. Its a hard job and no one is cutting any slack to any of these women who choose to join up for the service and certainly no compromises are made when it comes to women Fighter pilots. They have to go out there knowing they may not return and they have to do what they are told to do. People who do this aren't ordinary in the least bit, i do respect anyone who ends up fighting for his country, it's a nobel cause to say the least.

 

[Awang se]

In many studies, it is shown that women have a poor crisis management capability compare to man. in Malaysia, women pilots are usually put as a backup pilot or a backseater or a transport jock.

 

[P.A.F]

i'm sure the PAF wouldn't send this woman to go on a bombing run or interseption . the womans just furfilling a dream. its the mens job to fight.

 

[rafale_2k5]

Well i checked up from my cousin whose an instructor at Risalpur , he narrated that they werent trainin them 4 fighter flyin n theyve got a long way to go to even consider such like undertakings, theyre basically meant to shoulder the transport fleet n choppers in PAF inventory, so thats a gr8 sigh of relief !!!!we cant trust a woman to fly a 50m dollar jet just like that!!!!! considerin pafs already measely resources!!!!!! n after considerin the tough attriton rate at Risalpur there wont be too many left!!!!!!!