Out on a limb here

[uncleiroh13]

Ya, im throwing around this little idea but could we like make a thing that lets us control infantry and vehicles like in company of heroes? I know it sorta sounds crazy but we have headsets, satellites, the works. So could we like make a satellite in space beam data of a battlefield (like a map) to a computer held by a squad leader so that he can give orders to his troops? I know that it wont work for close quarters because satellites cant see through roofs (or thats what we think...) and containers,etc. but this a good idea right? If it is try to get a important guy to read this if one does read this, Hi important guy. Or i think something like this is already in place is it?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Ya, im throwing around this little idea but could we like make a thing that lets us control infantry and vehicles like in company of heroes? I know it sorta sounds crazy but we have headsets, satellites, the works. So could we like make a satellite in space beam data of a battlefield (like a map) to a computer held by a squad leader so that he can give orders to his troops? I know that it wont work for close quarters because satellites cant see through roofs (or thats what we think...) and containers,etc. but this a good idea right? If it is try to get a important guy to read this if one does read this, Hi important guy. Or i think something like this is already in place is it?

Its already been done. The concept was tested operationally in Iraq by the Manchu Division approx 3 years ago

 

[Feanor]

Not all of us are familiar with the video game in question or the experiment in Iraq that you're referring to. Could one of you two elaborate on what exactly this system entails?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Not all of us are familiar with the video game in question or the experiment in Iraq that you're referring to. Could one of you two elaborate on what exactly this system entails?

Can't give details on an open forum. was responding to "So could we like make a satellite in space beam data of a battlefield (like a map) to a computer held by a squad leader so that he can give orders to his troops? "

The US Manchu Division trialled such a concept a few years back.

 

[kato]

Germany has the FAUST system operational, e.g. with JgBtl 292 in the D/F Brigade. It's also in active use e.g. to control German units, such as patrols, in ISAF, KFOR and SFOR. In KFOR it has been used since October 2004, in Afghanistan since 2003. FAUST is short for Führungsausstattung Taktisch, Tactical Command Equipment.
EADS claimed in 2005 that FAUST was the only operational battlefield command and awareness system in Afghanistan, Kosovo and Bosnia.

The commander of a FAUST-equipped unit (platoon, company, battalion usually) has a large projector showing data about all own units as well as discovered enemy units on a electronic 3D battlefield map. The system additionally draws data on the units' personnel and equipment from a constantly updated database.
Information is updated and inserted into the system in realtime e.g. also through reconnaissance units or drone video data. The commander can use FAUST to assess the situation and transmit orders to the units, both using point-and-click standardized order sets as well as being able to transmit freetext orders, or handing them e.g. situational maps or recon results in graphical form.
The basic system is restricted to vehicles, if the infantry is equipped with IdZ (like on deployments or in selected units like JgBtl 292), the whole thing can go down to the single soldier in theory.

At least that's what's been declassified about it. There's a higher-level system based around FAUST being implemented (FüInfoSysH, Army Command and Information System).

Also, satellites are way overrated by a lot of people. At least as far as realtime recon goes, which isn't really possible for satellites at all.

 

[uncleiroh13]

Thanks

Its already been done. The concept was tested operationally in Iraq by the Manchu Division approx 3 years ago

Thanks thats the only comment that helped me on the two forums i put this on

 

[uncleiroh13]

oh and thanks kato for pointing out its overrated

 

[gf0012-aust]

Thanks thats the only comment that helped me on the two forums i put this on

I'll check my notes from the time and see if any of it can be released into the public domain. It covered a whole pile of discrete technologies which from what I saw were very very impressive.

its now being adopted by some other special forces elements

 

[gf0012-aust]

oh and thanks kato for pointing out its overrated

Kato is referring to a german system which doesn't have any relationship to the tech used by the Manchus.

The actual recording of a real time event that I saw was very very impressive. I saw a kill/capture mission which involved over 50 people, uav's, ground forces and vehicles and was conducted entirely without voice command from any of the participating elements.

successful mission, objectives achieved. no blue on blue, clear blue force tracking, clear tracking of the enemy and done in real time

This system is far from over rated - its being adopted or asked for release by a number of US allies.

It is probably the best recent usable real time mission action solution I've seen to date. very very impressive

to give a further indication, some US forces didn't want to use it as they regarded it as too hi tech and wanted to stay with traditional force monitoring and engagement solutions - when the trial was over for some of these units they didn't want to give them back and even tried to get their one stars to force the issue.

btw the US system uses multiple feeds - not just satellites. eg UAV's, AWACs, nearby units data transfer etc....

its highly relevant when you look at the other techs involved and due to be integrated out to 2020.

 

[kato]

To clarify, i was only saying that satellites are overrated in the context of real-time imagery. In such a system, you'd use satellites for terrain imagery, and to get an idea about the position of static targets. Real-time overwatch would be provided by UAVs, deployed ground sensor networks, other recon assets and such, with the Blue troops inserting their own position into the system to prevent Blue-on-Blue accidents.

Command systems per se are of course not overrated.

The D/F Brigade is already using FüInfoSysH since late 2008 at full brigade level - was equipped early when it took over EU BG duties. Interesting that the US Army seems to be a bit anxious to adopt something equivalent.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The D/F Brigade is already using FüInfoSysH since late 2008 at full brigade level - was equipped early when it took over EU BG duties. Interesting that the US Army seems to be a bit anxious to adopt something equivalent.

The US system I've seen is fundamentally different. Its a RT system in the sense that they have portable electronic maps which grid reference the area of action. each soldier has an electronic marker which is benign. so the system can monitor every single troop member while they prosecute their mission. friendly soldiers have different markers - the targets are marked with different shaped icons. as each building is secured then it appears as such on the system, doors are marked, alleys are marked, roads etc...

in this instance, when the tango was secured everyone knew by their screens, when they called in the recovery vehicle they realised that the initial pick up point was closed off. they were able to electronically mark the primary pick up point as locked and reroute the snatch vehicle via another road.

the whole mission was done without voice. multiple buildings were secured without firing a shot. - it would have lasted 40+ minutes - which in real terms considering the taskings and local conditions (night in pro-enemy territory) was very very impressive.

this is separate to the usual systems where RT video is the primary means of maintaining a real time picture.

I'd add that this was shown to us some 3 years ago, it had been operational in nominated US assets some 2 years prior.

 

[kato]

Ah, a bit of a different angle then.

FAUST also integrates this somewhat with ongoing developments such as IDZ (troop-/soldier-level electronic information systems and sensor and position uplink) and ZEFF (basically a infantry IFF transmitter warning that you're about to hit a friendly). In FAUST, the same is also extended to vehicles etc. Transmission can also go without audio there, if the single soldier is sufficiently equipped (e.g. with IDZ).

FAUST, in essence, is more of a dispatching system. A dispatcher, through FAUST, knows the exact locations of all soldiers, the suspected or known location of hostiles, the location of certain dangers - IEDs, mines etc - and can allocate and reroute troops appropriately. To help him in this task, e.g. the single soldier in the field can transmit video and photos of situations, which the dispatcher can also hand down to the person he dispatches for the task.
An example given is for example that a patrol comes across a IED, the dispatcher reroutes the closest EOD team and the EOD team can already during transit do some preliminary examinations through photos and videos shot by the patrol; in the meantime the dispatcher can e.g. reroute a convoy passing through soon, allocate additional troops to secure the area, and send a message to a recon team on a nearby hill to provide some overwatch of that area. All from a single map-based program on his computer.

 

[uncleiroh13]

ok thanks for all of the clarification of what your talking about i forgot about UAV's well thanks for telling me this im done with this thread you can continue talking if you like

 

[exported_kiwi]

Yeah, I'd heard of something similar GF. How is the info disseminated to the grunt on the ground though (without asking you to get into specifics too much)? The individuals have some sort of palm screen or is it helmet mounted, kinda like and HUD on a fighter aircraft? It's going to be interesting to see such systems proliferate in the near future and I'd like to have a looksee at one, when it becomes unclassified.
I saw a movie on DVD over here, can't remember what it was called now, but there was a similar system integrated into the IW, maybe once the "shock/recoil" issues are dealt with as well as weight and power source, this would be more feasible.......just putting it out there as a topic for discussion.

 

[kato]

Land Warrior (which was essentially used, somewhat modified) uses a HUD monocle over one eye. Read up on it a bit, apparently the Manchu Btl restricted the use to team leaders and above in the deployment, so not everyone would be wearing that.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Land Warrior (which was essentially used, somewhat modified) uses a HUD monocle over one eye. Read up on it a bit, apparently the Manchu Btl restricted the use to team leaders and above in the deployment, so not everyone would be wearing that.

The capability that the Manchu tested was not just wearable. it was manport as well.

certainly the footage I've been shown shows everyone in that action wearing carrying some relevant gear to the capability.

this is a real time system, so everyone in action is part of the system.