One hell of a mortar!
- Thread starter Libyan
- Start date
I failed to see what such a large mortar would accomplish. The role of mortar is to provide infantry unit (somewhat inaccurate) short range fire support. A mortar as large as this will only slow down the lightly equipped infantry.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
Force Multiplication
Gone are the days of infantry marching itself off to war.
Todays Infantry is Highly mechanized highly armored and highly armed.
Take a few old 160mm mortars stick them in t-55 hulls (sans) their turrets and deny any attacker the ability to get within 9,600 meters of your troops.
a ww2 or vietnam era 105mm light howitzer has greater range and greater ability than todays latest generation 120mm mortar.
The Russians are the worlds greatest advocates and practitioners of Artillery and Mortars, The Russians have designed tubes which blur the lines of distinction between Mortar and Gun.
Immagine what this mortar used in a direct fire role would do to a pillbox or against an urban target?
never mind what 160mm's worth of he would do to a tank! (or its crew inside)
Gone are the days of infantry marching itself off to war.
Todays Infantry is Highly mechanized highly armored and highly armed.
Take a few old 160mm mortars stick them in t-55 hulls (sans) their turrets and deny any attacker the ability to get within 9,600 meters of your troops.
a ww2 or vietnam era 105mm light howitzer has greater range and greater ability than todays latest generation 120mm mortar.
The Russians are the worlds greatest advocates and practitioners of Artillery and Mortars, The Russians have designed tubes which blur the lines of distinction between Mortar and Gun.
Immagine what this mortar used in a direct fire role would do to a pillbox or against an urban target?
never mind what 160mm's worth of he would do to a tank! (or its crew inside)
The SM-54 KONDENSATOR-2P TRACKED ARMOURED SELF-PROPELLED GUN mounts an old soviet 406mm (naval?) gun with an range of 28 km on a tracked chassis. It was built in the late fifties as an answer to the US 280mm atomic gun. Its twin, the Oka 420mm self-propelled breech-loading mortar, was armed with an 420 mm breech loaded mortar. Both Oka and Kondensator were built on an T-10 chassis.
More info and images at www.jedsite.info
The more recent 2S4 SM-240 M-1975 Tyulpan [Tulip Tree] 240-mm self-propelled breachloaded mortar consists of a much modified GMZ tracked minelaying vehicle carrying a 240-mm M-240 breech-loading mortar on the hull rear. The mortar is carried complete with a baseplate and is hydraulically lowered from its traveling position around a pivot on the hull rear. The baseplate is hinged to the hull rear so that when emplaced the mortar barrel faces away from the rear hull. The mortar is lowered into the firing position under remote-control and when in position can be elevated from +45 to +80° with a traverse of 8° left and right. Some rounds are probably carried inside the vehicle hull and it is likely that some form of assisted loading is provided. The rate of fire is about one round a minute, with firing being by remote-control.
The hull of the vehicle is of all-welded steel armor with the engine compartment at the front right and driver front left. The commander is seated to the rear of the driver and has a raised cupola with an externally mounted 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun. A further hatch is to the rear of the commander's cupola with a similar outward opening hatch on the opposite side of the vehicle roof. Ammunition is stowed internally and is loaded into the mortar using a hand-operated crane mounted at the rear of the vehicle on the left side. The mortar sighting system is on the right side of the mortar. It fires a standard 130 kg HE mortar round designated the F-864 with a minimum range of 800m and a maximum range of 9700m. In addition there is understood to be an extended-range round with a maximum range of 20000m. Other reported rounds include chemical, nuclear and a concrete-piercing round for use against hardened targets.
Vehicle suspension is of the torsion bar type with each side having six road wheels with the drive sprocket at the front, idler at the rear and four track-return rollers.
More info and images at www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_systems/Land/Artillery/Self_Propelled/2S4_SP_Mortar_Tulpan.htm
Even heavier mortars include the German Loki Gerät 041 ( 54cm) and Karl Gerät 040 ( 60cm) selfpropelled siege mortars from WWII. It weighed about 125 tons and with its 580 hp engine could manage an impressive top speed of 10 km/r on its own. The vehicle - of which just seven were built - had a ground pressure of "only" 1.8 kilograms per square centimeter (current MBT's do about 0.85 to 1.0 Kg/cm2). The gun weighed some 70 tons. It had a 28 ton rifled barrel with a total length of of 5.068 meters. The barrel was ckecked after each shot and wear was such that it had a life of just a meazly 60 shots. These mortars fired 2.5 meter long shells weighing around 2000 kg containing some 250 kg pure explosive, able to penetrate 2.5m of steel reinforced concete, out to a range of 10000m (54cm version) and 4000m (60cm version)
Very good info and images at http://www.one35th.com/morser/karl_photo.htm
More info and images at www.jedsite.info
The more recent 2S4 SM-240 M-1975 Tyulpan [Tulip Tree] 240-mm self-propelled breachloaded mortar consists of a much modified GMZ tracked minelaying vehicle carrying a 240-mm M-240 breech-loading mortar on the hull rear. The mortar is carried complete with a baseplate and is hydraulically lowered from its traveling position around a pivot on the hull rear. The baseplate is hinged to the hull rear so that when emplaced the mortar barrel faces away from the rear hull. The mortar is lowered into the firing position under remote-control and when in position can be elevated from +45 to +80° with a traverse of 8° left and right. Some rounds are probably carried inside the vehicle hull and it is likely that some form of assisted loading is provided. The rate of fire is about one round a minute, with firing being by remote-control.
The hull of the vehicle is of all-welded steel armor with the engine compartment at the front right and driver front left. The commander is seated to the rear of the driver and has a raised cupola with an externally mounted 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun. A further hatch is to the rear of the commander's cupola with a similar outward opening hatch on the opposite side of the vehicle roof. Ammunition is stowed internally and is loaded into the mortar using a hand-operated crane mounted at the rear of the vehicle on the left side. The mortar sighting system is on the right side of the mortar. It fires a standard 130 kg HE mortar round designated the F-864 with a minimum range of 800m and a maximum range of 9700m. In addition there is understood to be an extended-range round with a maximum range of 20000m. Other reported rounds include chemical, nuclear and a concrete-piercing round for use against hardened targets.
Vehicle suspension is of the torsion bar type with each side having six road wheels with the drive sprocket at the front, idler at the rear and four track-return rollers.
More info and images at www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_systems/Land/Artillery/Self_Propelled/2S4_SP_Mortar_Tulpan.htm
Even heavier mortars include the German Loki Gerät 041 ( 54cm) and Karl Gerät 040 ( 60cm) selfpropelled siege mortars from WWII. It weighed about 125 tons and with its 580 hp engine could manage an impressive top speed of 10 km/r on its own. The vehicle - of which just seven were built - had a ground pressure of "only" 1.8 kilograms per square centimeter (current MBT's do about 0.85 to 1.0 Kg/cm2). The gun weighed some 70 tons. It had a 28 ton rifled barrel with a total length of of 5.068 meters. The barrel was ckecked after each shot and wear was such that it had a life of just a meazly 60 shots. These mortars fired 2.5 meter long shells weighing around 2000 kg containing some 250 kg pure explosive, able to penetrate 2.5m of steel reinforced concete, out to a range of 10000m (54cm version) and 4000m (60cm version)
Very good info and images at http://www.one35th.com/morser/karl_photo.htm
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Mortars (of all calibre's) are extremely useful in Mountainous terrain. The high angles they are able to fire at are often more useful than conventional artillery in these types of terrain. Plus new generation 120mm Mortar rounds, are rated almost highly as 155mm Artillery rounds in the effects they achieve. In addition, Mortars normally have a higher rate of fire than artillery pieces...
Mortars are not designed to fire at anywhere near the same range as 155mm arty and can therefore have relatively large, un-aerodynamic shapes... Just out of interest, the Australian Army is still investigating whether or not to acquire a new gen self propelled 120mm Mortar capability, in addition to it's plans for new 155mm SPG's and upgraded 105mm Light guns and 81mm Mortars.
Mortars are not designed to fire at anywhere near the same range as 155mm arty and can therefore have relatively large, un-aerodynamic shapes... Just out of interest, the Australian Army is still investigating whether or not to acquire a new gen self propelled 120mm Mortar capability, in addition to it's plans for new 155mm SPG's and upgraded 105mm Light guns and 81mm Mortars.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
120mm Mortars? Logistically they'll be fine. We manufacture almost all our ammunition requirements here in Australia, with the sole exception of the soon to be introduced 120mm M1A1 Abrams tank gun (at our newly built Mulwala plant).
There is no real obstacle to producing that either, other than funding being required to establish a manufacturing line for those rounds. 120mm Mortar ammo, similarly would be no problem to maufacture for us. Australia unlike most Countries uses a very narrow range of munitions precisely to avoid any "logistical" problems that may arise.
Our current indirect fire assets for Army are only: 81mm Mortars, 105mm and 155mm Artillery. That's it. I would argue that self propelled 120mm Mortars would actually round out our indirect fire assets nicely and fill the gap between 81mm mortars and 105mm Artillery (in terms of range at least) very well. They would also provide a good "shoot and scoot" capability, something that we currently lack (until 155mm SPG's arrive anyway)...
There is no real obstacle to producing that either, other than funding being required to establish a manufacturing line for those rounds. 120mm Mortar ammo, similarly would be no problem to maufacture for us. Australia unlike most Countries uses a very narrow range of munitions precisely to avoid any "logistical" problems that may arise.
Our current indirect fire assets for Army are only: 81mm Mortars, 105mm and 155mm Artillery. That's it. I would argue that self propelled 120mm Mortars would actually round out our indirect fire assets nicely and fill the gap between 81mm mortars and 105mm Artillery (in terms of range at least) very well. They would also provide a good "shoot and scoot" capability, something that we currently lack (until 155mm SPG's arrive anyway)...