North & South Korea Exchange Artillery Fire

EnimaAtTheGates

New Member
This morning the Koreans have exchanged fire. On the BBC site they're showing twitter messages from South Koreans and they seem to think it's an act of war. Outsiders and experts are saying it's just more sabre rattling from the North and done simply in a bid to gain some negotiation power.

I can't see how this will benefit the North Koreans if that's what they're looking for. They've killed two soldiers this morning along with some civilians. Now they are claiming that the South fired first. The South were holding a training excercise and I can only think that they have 'fired' but not at the North and the NOrth have simply jumped on the chance to start throwing shells the other way.
 

EnimaAtTheGates

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Agreed. I think from a strategic point of view it may benefit people like America for it to carry on so they can take out these nuclear facilities but obviously that's unlikely.

North Korea still saying that South Korea started it and they will continue to take military action if South Korea dare enter their waters by "0.001mm" <--not sure how they measure that but I'm sure they have their ways :confused:
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Agreed. I think from a strategic point of view it may benefit people like America for it to carry on so they can take out these nuclear facilities but obviously that's unlikely.

North Korea still saying that South Korea started it and they will continue to take military action if South Korea dare enter their waters by "0.001mm" <--not sure how they measure that but I'm sure they have their ways :confused:
Im willing to bet that there will be retaliation, military and UN sanctioned. The north are not in a position to threaten anyone. This could be the re-unification of Korea......Lets wait and see
 

Sampanviking

Banned Member
Don't get over excited, as the only war here is the currency variety while all else is smoke and mirrors.

N. Korea Attack on South Kills Two, Sets Homes Ablaze - BusinessWeek



From which the telling sentence was the most telling:

The yen and Korean won weakened against the dollar, U.S. stock futures fell and Treasury futures rose as investors sought safe-haven investments following the report.
That's the reality.

Both South Korea and Japan have been very unhappy about US currency devaluation through "Quantative Easing" as this has caused substantial appreciation of their own currencies; partly through relative change, but also through vast sums of speculative "hot money" looking to reduce its dollar exposure and find a safe home. This is highly prejudicial to the interests and export ability of these two export driven economies.

Both SK and Japan would have loved to have taken measures to devalue, but doing so would have made them vulnerable to accusations of "currency manipulation" and retaliatory measures.

This nicely fixes the problem, it is sending the currencies back down and the hot money packing. Just what the doctor ordered and in a way that makes criticism impossible. In fact those that would have been first to point the finger at currency manipulation will need to be seen as standing shoulder to shoulder with the two countries in the face of "provocation and intimidation".

Funny old world eh? and probably about to get ever funnier over the coming years.
 

alkemita

New Member
I can't see how this will benefit the North Koreans if that's what they're looking for. They've killed two soldiers this morning along with some civilians. Now they are claiming that the South fired first. The South were holding a training excercise and I can only think that they have 'fired' but not at the North and the NOrth have simply jumped on the chance to start throwing shells the other way.
Well, remember that with North Korea, things may not always be so simple. Maybe their intent is to give Kim Jon Il's son an excuse to tighten control over the military.
 

SURB

Member
Well, remember that with North Korea, things may not always be so simple. Maybe their intent is to give Kim Jon Il's son an excuse to tighten control over the military.
What type of excuse is this?
They are risking the life of innocent population of both sides.And ultimately if UN imposes sanction.The sufferers will be people of North Korea.Can't they understand this simple fact.:confused:
 

alkemita

New Member
What type of excuse is this?
They are risking the life of innocent population of both sides.And ultimately if UN imposes sanction.The sufferers will be people of North Korea.Can't they understand this simple fact.:confused:
Agreed. But, again, most of the normal rules don't apply to North Korea. As with all totalitarian regimes, the ultimate goal is for the regime to survive. If that means manufacturing a military confrontation to solidify the support of the armed forces, that's what they'll do.
 

SURB

Member
Agreed. But, again, most of the normal rules don't apply to North Korea. As with all totalitarian regimes, the ultimate goal is for the regime to survive. If that means manufacturing a military confrontation to solidify the support of the armed forces, that's what they'll do.
Then that must be including brainwashing at a large scale.To name it as patriotism in their terms.
Were the military exercises South Korean army was carrying was near the border.I mean regarding what's North Korean view about it?

Such events can only be triggered if exercise is carried out near the border or something.
 

SURB

Member
INCHEON, South Korea (Reuters) – North Korea fired scores of artillery shells at a South Korean island on Tuesday, killing two soldiers, in one of the heaviest attacks on its neighbor since the Korean War ended in 1953.

The barrage -- the South fired back and sent a fighter jet to the area -- was close to a disputed maritime border on the west of the divided peninsula and the scene of deadly clashes in the past. South Korea was conducting military drills in the area at the time but said it had not been firing at the North.

The attack came as the reclusive North, and its ally China, presses regional powers to return to negotiations on its nuclear weapons program and revelations at the weekend Pyongyang is fast developing another source of material to make atomic bombs.

It also follows moves by leader Kim Jong-il to make his youngest, but unproven, son his heir apparent, leading some analysts to question whether the bombardment might in part have been an attempt to burnish the ruling family's image with the military.

"Houses and mountains are on fire and people are evacuating. You can't see very well because of plumes of smoke," a witness on the island told YTN Television before the shelling, which lasted about an hour, ended.

YTN said at least 200 North Korean shells hit Yeonpyeong, which lies off the west coast of the divided peninsula near a disputed maritime border. Most landed on a military base there.

Photographs from Yeongyeong island, just 120 km (75 miles) west of Seoul, showed columns of smoke rising from buildings. Two soldiers were killed in the attack, 17 wounded. Three civilians were also hurt.

News of the attack rattled global markets, already unsettled by Ireland's debt woes and a shift to less risky assets.

Experts say North Korea's Kim has for decades played a carefully calibrated game of provocation to squeeze concessions from the international community and impress his own military. The risk is that the leadership transition has upset this balance and that events spin out of control.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, who has pursued a hard line with the North since taking office nearly three years ago, said a response had to be firm following the attack.

But he made no suggestion the South would retaliate further, suggesting Seoul was taking a measured response to prevent things getting out of hand.

The North has a huge array of artillery pointed at Seoul that could decimate an urban area home to around 25 million people and cause major damage to its trillion dollar economy.

The two Koreas are still technically at war -- the Korean War ended only with a truce -- and tension rose sharply early this year after Seoul accused the North of torpedoing one of its navy vessels, killing 46 sailors.

North Korea said its wealthy neighbor started the fight.

"Despite our repeated warnings, South Korea fired dozens of shells from 1 p.m. ... and we've taken strong military action immediately," its KCNA news agency said in a brief statement.

South Korea said it had been conducting military drills in the area beforehand but had fired west, not north.

The international community was quick to express alarm at the sudden rise in tension in a region that is home to three of the world's biggest economies -- China, Japan and South Korea.

A French diplomatic source said the U.N. Security Council would call an emergency meeting in a day or two over North Korea, against which it has imposed heavy economic sanctions for previous nuclear and missile tests.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called the escalation in tensions a "colossal danger.

China was careful to avoid taking sides, calling on both Koreas to "do more to contribute to peace.

"China hopes that the relevant parties will do more to contribute to peace and stability in the region ... it is imperative now to resume the six-party talks," a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Hong Lei, told reporters.

Those talks on North Korea's nuclear weapons program -- involving the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States -- have long been on ice.

But the North has recently been pushing to resume the talks, which previously it has used to win massive aid in return for promises to end its weapons program.

WON TUMBLES

News of the exchange of fire sent the won tumbling in offshore markets with the 1-month won down about four percent at one stage in NDF trading. U.S. 10-year Treasury futures rose and the Japanese yen fell.

The South Korean central bank, after an emergency meeting, said it planned to cooperate with the government to take measures to stabilize markets if necessary. Many traders expect South Korea's financial markets to fall further when trading opens on Wednesday.

The attack comes just as a U.S. envoy is in Beijing on a tour of the region and is expected to ask China to use its influence over North Korea.

Washington has branded the North a danger to the region and expressed concern Pyongyang would sell nuclear weapons technology to other states. It has said it was ready to return to talks but wants to see more commitment to denuclearization by the North beforehand.

The White House condemned the attack, telling the North to halt its "belligerent action" and saying it was committed to defend the South.

It has about 28,000 troops in South Korea, their combined forces facing an estimated one million North Korean soldiers who make up one of the world's biggest standing armies.

"UNBELIEVABLE"

"It's unbelievable," said Zhu Feng, professor of international relations at Peking University. "Today's news proves that North Korea, under unprovoked conditions, shot these South Korean islands. It's reckless provocation. They want to make a big bang and force the negotiations back into their favor. It's the oldest trick."

The North depends heavily on China for economic and diplomatic support and Kim Jong-il has visited China twice this year, in part to gain backing for the anointment of his son as heir.

Those ties have become a sore point with Washington after reports that North Korea appears to have made big steps toward enriching uranium, possibly using technology that passed through or even originated in China.

China has urged returning to the nuclear disarmament negotiations but has also fended off calls from Washington and its regional allies to use its vital food and energy aid to North Korea as a lever.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101123/wl_nm/us_korea_north_artillery
In my view China can use her influence.And it's a high time they have to appease both Koreans side somehow.And US must not support any act of war,either aggression or retaliation.Neither diplomatically nor physically(they just can't afford it with a dropping economy and with their legs caught in Afghanistan.)
 

Locarnus

New Member
It now looks like the South/West now have a legittimate reason to take out NUKE facicities
and what would that reason be?

Im willing to bet that there will be retaliation, military and UN sanctioned. The north are not in a position to threaten anyone. This could be the re-unification of Korea......Lets wait and see
i wonder how the citizens of seoul feel about this...
and reunification? of what? a cinder?

SURB said:
Such events can only be triggered if exercise is carried out near the border or something.
Funny how such exercises from the oppononent are always said to be provocations and own exercises are always only legitimate preparations for self-defence...

I m waiting for evidence that the north started the attack, before artificially narrowing the case in this respect. And have a closer look about the whole situation. Just too often in history skirmishes/wars were started by perceptions, overreactions and self-fulfilling prophecies...
 

sgtgunn

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
While I understand why no-one, least of all the ROK wants to see any serious escalation of this attack, I also wonder how tenable the current situation long term really is.

The DPRK has apparently come to the conclusion (and so far, correctly) that any violent outrage it commits against the ROK for its own internal or external political reasons will go effectively unpunished because the ROK and the other regional powers so fear the outcome of a full scale war on the Korean Peninsula they are terrified to respond in any serious way that could lead to escalation. This puts the DPRK in a position to attack the ROK, kill its citizens, and make the ROK look weak and foolish with impunity. I cannot see how a rising star of nation like the ROK, with a strong sense of nationalism can put up with such egregious, open and naked acts of aggression and war and do nothing indefinitely.

Sooner or later the ROK is going to have to do something.

Adrian
 

Spetsznaz

New Member
While I understand why no-one, least of all the ROK wants to see any serious escalation of this attack, I also wonder how tenable the current situation long term really is.

The DPRK has apparently come to the conclusion (and so far, correctly) that any violent outrage it commits against the ROK for its own internal or external political reasons will go effectively unpunished because the ROK and the other regional powers so fear the outcome of a full scale war on the Korean Peninsula they are terrified to respond in any serious way that could lead to escalation. This puts the DPRK in a position to attack the ROK, kill its citizens, and make the ROK look weak and foolish with impunity. I cannot see how a rising star of nation like the ROK, with a strong sense of nationalism can put up with such egregious, open and naked acts of aggression and war and do nothing indefinitely.

Sooner or later the ROK is going to have to do something.

Adrian
Absolutely right. The ROK will have alot of difficultly fighting DPRK on its own. As far as I can see it the DPRK will just bully the ROK, up to the point when the will have to respond. Not only that but the DPRK has no hesitation to go to war,:gun as for the ROK war opens up an extremely large amount of problems.

Something VERY IMPORTANT needs to be pointed out and is not being addressed is that a day BEFORE the shelling South Korea was considering to ask, the US to stage Tactical Nuclear weapons in South Korea for the very first time in 19 years...
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
I have no doubts that ROK air force can take out most of DPRK air regiments within days and dominate the peninsula air spaces. However taking out enough DPRK missiles fast enough is another matter. Talking with some South Koreans that have served in their Armed Forces show that they have doubt the ROK air force can take out most of DPRK missiles sites before most of them can fall down to ROK cities.

DPRK for the Chinese economically is a parasite, while ROK is a real profitable trading and investment partners. If somehow ROK can convinced the Chinese that a unified Korea under ROK can still keep the Chinese interest well, then big possibility the Chinese will cut the cord to DPRK parasites.

As long as ROK uses their own army to unified Korea and nevet let US personel across 38th pararel the Chinese can be satisfied. This's no 50's. ROK have technology and endurances to sustain combat operation, while DPRK even their starving most of their people (which they do that anyway) will have difficulties to maintain enough strategic reserves for long attritions combat operation. The question always be the missiles. Will ROK have enough capabilities to pacified them in short enough period.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
and what would that reason be?



i wonder how the citizens of seoul feel about this...
and reunification? of what? a cinder?


Funny how such exercises from the oppononent are always said to be provocations and own exercises are always only legitimate preparations for self-defence...

I m waiting for evidence that the north started the attack, before artificially narrowing the case in this respect. And have a closer look about the whole situation. Just too often in history skirmishes/wars were started by perceptions, overreactions and self-fulfilling prophecies...
Reason, a thriving economic power gets bullied by its poor neighbor....sinking ships, shelling cities- those are just 2 published attacks, Im sure there would be unpublished acts of espionage, direct or indirect by both sides probably. But the north is constantly sabre rattling, not only to South Korea, but the West in general, missile launches aimed to intimidate Japan, and mothing off about the US being in range etc. Sooner or later, North Korea will have its nuke toys taken away. I think eventually, we will see a peaceful unification, much like East Germany.
 

riksavage

Banned Member
Reason, a thriving economic power gets bullied by its poor neighbor....sinking ships, shelling cities- those are just 2 published attacks, Im sure there would be unpublished acts of espionage, direct or indirect by both sides probably. But the north is constantly sabre rattling, not only to South Korea, but the West in general, missile launches aimed to intimidate Japan, and mothing off about the US being in range etc. Sooner or later, North Korea will have its nuke toys taken away. I think eventually, we will see a peaceful unification, much like East Germany.
NK would cause terrible loss / infrastructure damage in the first few days then reap a pretty grim whirlwind. The NK airforce would be decimated then the turkey shoot would begin. The NK's armoured formations would be ripped to shreds by a mix of US/ROK CAS and armour.

The PRC's primary worry is having a major US ally right on its border should the end game result in a united Korea. That situation coupled with the fact that India/Russia/Vietnam all have sizable military units based on the Middle Kingdoms frontiers make for potentially uncomfortable times.

The PRC has to walk a very fine line, if it turns nasty they will be on the receiving end of millions of NK refugees with little ability to live, work and assimilate into a modern economy. It's in their interest to keep NK tamed and refuse to support them if they press for military intervention south of the 38th. I seriously doubt NK would invade without Beijing's approval unless they decide to do a Hitler and opt for an all or nothing campaign - total victory or destruction of the Korean race in a backs against the wall nuclear strike.

I'm not sure the South wants reunification, they witnessed first hand how expensive it was for Germany and by comparison the gap between North and South Korea is vast, you are looking at a pre-industrial revolution subsistance society vs one of the most developed economies on the planet. They will have to carry the North for generations until a total grass-roots re-education programme is completed.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Well, it's also not entirely true that the ROK does nothing to answer such agressions.

The shelling by NK forces was answered by ROK artillery with 80+ shells and according to reports with higher accuracy.

In the end that probably as much as they can do without letting the situation deteriorate any further.
 

SURB

Member
An update on the current issue.USA intervening.:cool:

U.S. aircraft carrier heads for Korean waters

(Reuters) - A U.S. aircraft carrier group set off for Korean waters on Wednesday, a day after North Korea rained artillery shells on a South Korean island, in a move likely to enrage Pyongyang and unsettle its ally, China.
South Korea said the bodies of two civilians were found on
the island after Tuesday's attack, which is likely to stir up
more resentment in the country against its prickly neighbor.
The nuclear-powered USS George Washington, which carries 75 warplanes and has a crew of over 6,000, left a naval base south of Tokyo and would join exercises with South Korea from Sunday to the following Wednesday, U.S. officials in Seoul said.
"This exercise is defensive in nature," U.S. Forces Korea said in a statement. "While planned well before yesterday's unprovoked artillery attack, it demonstrates the strength of the ROK (South Korea)-U.S. alliance and our commitment to regional stability through deterrence."
North Korea said the South was driving the peninsula to the "brink of war" with "reckless military provocation" and by postponing humanitarian aid, the North's official KCNA news agency said. The dispatch did not refer to the planned military drills.
The government in Seoul came under pressure for the military's slow response to the provocation, echoing similar complaints made when a warship was sunk in March in the same area, killing 46 sailors.
Defense Minister Kim Tae-young was grilled by lawmakers who said the government should have taken quicker and stronger retaliatory measures against the North's provocation.
"I am sorry that the government has not carried out ruthless bombing through jet fighters during the North's second round of shelling," said Kim Jang-soo, a lawmaker of ruling Grand National Party and a former defense minister.
Tuesday's attack was the heaviest in the region since the Korean War ended in 1953, and marked the first civilian deaths in an assault since the bombing of a South Korean airliner in 1987.
The United States and Japan urged China to do more to rein in North Korea after the reclusive nation fired scores of artillery shells on Tuesday at a South Korean island near the maritime boundary between the two sides.
Beijing will not be pleased by the deployment of the aircraft carrier and will not respond to such pressure, said Xu Guangyu, a retired major-general in the People's Liberation Army who now works for a government-run arms control organization.
"China will not welcome the U.S. aircraft carrier joining the exercises, because that kind of move can escalate tensions and not relieve them," he said.
"Our biggest objective is stability on the Korean peninsula. That interest is not served by abandoning North Korea, and so there's no need to rethink the basics of the relationship."


U.S. aircraft carrier heads for Korean waters | Reuters
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1pkfh-dQ5o"]YouTube - Korean peninsula on the verge of war. Reuters.flv[/nomedia]
 
Top