New Zealand's Army buys Pinzgauer

[EnigmaNZ]

"The purchase of 188 new Pinzgauer Light Operational Vehicles (LOV) is signed, sealed, and soon to be delivered to the New Zealand Defence Force.
The vehicles are the first tranche of a total fleet of 321, and will replace the Army's current fleet of ageing Landrovers. The total cost of the project is estimated at NZ$60-$110 million, and delivery is scheduled to begin in October 2004.
Minister of Defence Mark Burton said the government had taken another significant step towards achieving the goal of a modernised, well equipped, and sustainable Defence Force across all three services.
The Pinzgauer Light Operational Vehicles will be required to carry out command and control, liaison, replenishment, special force, casualty evacuation and administrative tasks. Five variants of the Pinzgauer’s are included in the first tranche: 95 general service (GS) vehicles, 57 command and control (C2) vehicles, 15 shelter vehicles, 13 special operations vehicles (SOV) and 8 ambulances. There will be a high degree of commonality between all vehicles versions. Purchasing these new vehicles reinforces once again the positive progress we are making in re-equipping all three services of the NZDF. These 188 vehicles are just the first tranche of LOVs, with a second, armoured component yet to come. Along with new field communications systems, Light Armoured Vehicles, weaponry, and technology upgrades, this government has already invested close to $1 billion in the Army alone. "
See here for images.
http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/March2004/pinzgauer.shtml

Strange looking vehicles but supposedly very capable, though as with all new purchases, there has been problems with breakdowns. Nice to see the old landrovers finally replaced, they have soldiered on since the early '80s

 

[Jason_kiwi]

i think they are perfect

better than the aussies 4x4's

 

[gf0012-aust]

i think they are perfect

better than the aussies 4x4's

err matey, we use the same fourbies as you lot, and the SASr use mainly 6x6's. As for the Pinz, have you been in one? I've been in one of the Kiwi ones when it was bought over late last year. If you ever want to discover what it's like to get seasick on land, then try driving in one long distance over corrugated roads.

on a side note, you do realise that all the pommy Pinz's have been pulled due to flaws in the drivetrain - at least that will be fixed before you get yours.

 

[EnigmaNZ]

Ah no gf, we have been having problems with our drivetrains as well.
"The army's new $93 million fleet of Pinzgauer light operational vehicles, some of which are needed by Kiwi troops in Afghanistan, is idle because of gearbox problems. [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, MS Sans Serif]The Afghanistan contingent is being forced to patrol rugged country in old leased vehicles that often break down. The Defence Force cannot send the Pinzgauers till they are fixed and drivers get the training required...." [/font]
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/manawatustandard/0,2106,3206125a6407,00.html

 

[gf0012-aust]

Ah no gf, we have been having problems with our drivetrains as well.

Actually, as a 6WD I really like the Pinz. They're certainly able to carry more than our modified Perenties. But as a vehicle to go in and do long range recce, I'd hate to be in one.

I don't know if you've ever had to travel long distance in a " cabover" - but they aren't exciting at all.

I'm still at a loss to understand why they would be picked for LR work. The whole idea is for troopers to arrive on reduced fatigue levels. Whoever scores the driving and co-driving (nav) job will be absolutely buggered on a long run.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

They are having many engine troubles with the Pinzer. It is not NZ's fault, it is the producers. Look on the bright side, the NZ engineers are going to be really experienced when its all fixed up.

 

[nz enthusiast]

Why didn't they just get the HUMVEE or the ford (350 from memory) that the US is looking at using to replace the HUMVEE? Although the Humvee has had problems in its service life they should be fixed by now and we could get TOWS to.

 

[gf0012-aust]

They are having many engine troubles with the Pinzer. It is not NZ's fault, it is the producers.

One wonders why the poms and austrians are having substantially less problems with their Pinz's then.

Climatic (cold) conditions are harsher in the alps than in NZ - and its not as if they are "billy goating" anyway.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

Yes I have thought about that. But when they fix up the Pinzers they will be having no problems(hopefully

 

[Jason_kiwi]

One wonders why the poms and austrians are having substantially less problems with their Pinz's then.

Climatic (cold) conditions are harsher in the alps than in NZ - and its not as if they are "billy goating" anyway.

The conditions are much hotter down in NZ. In the summer it gets upto 30 around the Napier area. The climate may have something to do with it.

 

[nz enthusiast]

It can go past 50 degress in some parts of Australia jason. Also some parts in central Australia would be so dry.....
I think NZers are alot more fussy about the state of some of their defence equipment especcially our media, anyone beg to differ.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

I agree. They do say alot. Although we hear nothing of the NZSAS, because it is to secoret.(apparently)

 

[Cyclop]

Greetings from Austria! In the homeland of the Pinz we have a sentence: "before a Pinzgauer quits, his driver quits!"
We have no problems at all with 4x4 or 6x6 vehicles - some of them are really old platforms. We have used them in african and arabian deserts (in fact we have crossed arabian deserts many times in the 1970s - about 40 Pinzgauer), in rainforrests - no problem at all.
The Pinzgauer is a very popular vehicle in the arabian world.

 

[artistoli]

The Pinzgauer has become a much loved vehicle in British service and is performing admirable in Iraq right now. I've got an exclusive, signed art print of a 4x4 Pinz' [ Admin Edit: NO COMMERICIAL LINKS: Read the rules http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php ] and I've sold several to British troops who regularly use them and have heard only good things about them. I'm sure the Kiwis will grow to wonder how they ever lived without them.

 

[profpinz]

One wonders why the poms and austrians are having substantially less problems with their Pinz's then.

The original 716/718 TD Pinzgauers (built in Austria and later in the UK) were fitted with 2.4 litre 6 cylinder VW diesels which had been used in one guise or the other since the TD's inception in 1985.
The NZ military Pinzgauers are fitted with the latest Euro III spec VW 5 cylinder diesels which are a new fitment to the Pinzgauer, hence there are bound to be a few initial "teething problems" ..... the change in engine came about because of changes in the VW engine range to meet current worldwide pollution regulations.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

A whoopsie?

The only real issue I can see on the horizon with the Pinzgauer's is the compatability issue with the NH-90. Despite being able to lift 2500kg on a sling load, it can't carry a Pinzgauer. In practice this will mean that the MRV can't unload light vehicles using its own helicopters. It may eventually mean that a light weight, spec-ops type vehicle is purchased for anything that requires airlift. Not the ideal situation.

 

[Whiskyjack]

The only real issue I can see on the horizon with the Pinzgauer's is the compatability issue with the NH-90. Despite being able to lift 2500kg on a sling load, it can't carry a Pinzgauer. In practice this will mean that the MRV can't unload light vehicles using its own helicopters. It may eventually mean that a light weight, spec-ops type vehicle is purchased for anything that requires airlift. Not the ideal situation.

Actually the slung load for the NH90 is above 4000kg, will supply the info as soon as I find it.

 

[Sea Toby]

The best I can find at their Kaman and NH-90 websites under specifications is that the SeaSprite can lift 2296 kg and the NH-90 can lift 2000 kg (during a 30 minute flight). Since the LAV III's maximum weight is 14 tons, or 12700 kg, neither could lift a LAV III.

As for a Pingauzer, its Gross Vehicle Weight is 4950 kg and its Payload is 2400 kg. Again, neither helicopter cound lift a Pingauzer. You'll need a heavier lift helicopter to do so.

That's why the much larger C-130 Hercules or some form of amphibious/logistic ship are needed to airlift or sealift a LAVIII and/or Pingauzers. While a C-130 maybe able to lift one or two LAV IIIs and/or Pingauzers, a ship can transport dozens more. Depending on the size of the ship reflects the number that can be carried. This is why many smaller nations are interested in acquiring an amphibious/logistic ship or ships presently to transport their army's forces and their equipment.

For example, the new New Zealand multi-role vessel, MPV, can transport with its 403 lane meters a typical company groups 16 LAV III s, 14 LOVs(Pingauzers), 7 Unimogs, 2 ambulances, 2 flat bed trucks, 7 LOV trailers, 2 rough terrain fork lifts, and 4 four wheel drive vehicles, 250 troops, plus all the supplies to sustain a company group for a month.

 

[Whiskyjack]

Here it is 4000kgs
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2004/Aug/310804.cfm

the 2000kg refers to internal I think.

Also Sea Toby your info on the C-130 lift capabilities is incorrect, the C-130 can lift one LAVIII around 500-600km. So the LAVII cannot be deployed from NZ with a C-130. The MRV and chartered ships are the only option.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

Sling load

Whoops, the 2500 refers to the maximum single-point lift I think. The issue remains though, why were all the vehicles purchased in the 6x6 configuration? I suspect we might see some 4x4 vehicles purchased in a second tranch.

Hopefully the concept of operations for the MRV will include it having some vehicles assigned as permanent cargo, as well as 'pack ups' for helicopter and vehicle maintanance, food supoplies, a reverse omosis unit, etc. It's a much easier proposition to marry-up personnell with a ship that includes onboard contingency stocks than it is to have a ship return to port to embark equipment before heading to sea again.