MRH-90 Confirmed to replace Australian Blackhawk and Sea Kings

[Aussie Digger]

MRH 90 TO REPLACE SEA KING AND BLACK HAWK HELICOPTERS​

I am pleased to announce that Government has approved a $ 2 billion acquisition of thirty-four MRH 90 helicopters to replace Navy’s Sea King and Army’s Black Hawk helicopters.

The selection of the MRH 90 complements the Government’s decision in 2004 to acquire an initial twelve MRH 90 helicopters as Army’s additional troop lift helicopter. Delivery of the first twelve is scheduled from December 2007 through to December 2009.

The 34 additional MRH 90s will be assembled in Brisbane. When delivered, the MRH 90s will be based at RAAF base Townsville, Holsworthy Barracks in Sydney and HMAS Albatross in Nowra. A contingent will also be based at a joint training facility at Oakey in Queensland.

The new twin-engine troop lift helicopters will provide opportunities for joint fleet management. These benefits include greater operational flexibility and efficiency through common operational, training and logistic systems and a capability to rotate personnel, aircraft, spare parts and role-specific equipment between troop lift, special operations and maritime support commitments.

The MRH 90 is an extremely capable helicopter featuring a modern damage tolerant design, a large cabin volume with ramp and enhanced levels of marinisation.

The Sea Kings will be retired in 2010, followed by the Black Hawks which will be progressively replaced between 2011 and 2015.

As these MRH 90 aircraft will be assembled in Australia this acquisition of at least 34 aircraft will provide significant opportunities for Australian industry and the Australian Defence Force (ADF) will gain an operating capability within a relatively short time-frame.

The emphasis of the Australian industry package, worth $1.2 billion, is on the development and sustainment of critical aircraft mission system capability. The long term viability of the Australian MRH 90 assembly line will be maximized, ensuring greater development of the skill base required to support the MRH 90 into the future through a strategy aimed at promoting Australian industry as part of the Eurocopter global supply chain.

-ends-

Good to see a decision finally made on this. Interesting to see if NZ wants in now. We now have 46 MRH-90's on order, with the possibility of further Australian orders depending on the Naval Helicopter review currently underway...

 

[Whiskyjack]

Good to see a decision finally made on this. Interesting to see if NZ wants in now. We now have 46 MRH-90's on order, with the possibility of further Australian orders depending on the Naval Helicopter review currently underway...​

​

The NZ MoD has basically said NZ NH90s will come from Europe (this was about 10 days ago).

So I am thinking no.

NZ does want some logistics agreements. See NH90 thread for more info on the NZ situation.​

 

[cherry]

An excellent decision and about time! I guess now this raises other questions such as, will a squadron of blackhawks be retained and upgraded for SOF use and, will a follow on order for replacing the Seahawks and Seasprites come? I guess only paying $2B for 36 platforms means that roughly around the same amount of money if not less would need to be spent on replacing the Seahawks and Seasprites.

 

[Aussie Digger]

An excellent decision and about time! I guess now this raises other questions such as, will a squadron of blackhawks be retained and upgraded for SOF use and, will a follow on order for replacing the Seahawks and Seasprites come? I guess only paying $2B for 36 platforms means that roughly around the same amount of money if not less would need to be spent on replacing the Seahawks and Seasprites.

Well we operate 16 Seahawks and intended to operate 11 Seasprites (and may still do). If MRH-90 were to be acquired in a specific Naval variant to replace these, up to 27 would be required.

RAN however gave evidence at a Senate Estimates Committee on 31 May / 01 June 06 that the NH-90 naval variant does not currently meet Australian Naval requirements and implied that significant development would have to occur before they did.

No specifics were mentioned and it seemed to me that RAN was implying a situation would occur similar to that of the Seasprite, if we went the NH-90 path to replace Seahawk/Seasprite.

ADF is now reviewing it's requirements and options in relation to it's naval helo's and it would not surprise me if we consolidated on MH-60R Seahawks (with our current Seahawks upgraded or re-manufactured) to a similar standard).

This could allow us some synergy with the reported upgraded Blackhawks that are going to be retained to support SOCOMD.

The ADF helo fleet would then be:

46x MRH-90 (to replace Blackhawk/Iroquois in Army and Seaking in Navy)

22x Tiger ARH (to replace Iroquois/Kiowa)

6x Chinook (with apparent further purchases of evolved variants to be made at some point).

12x Blackhawk specwarops variant

27x MH-60R Naval helo

?x (possibly 20-30) LUH/Training helo's for Army/Navy (to replace Kiowa in Army and Squirrel in Navy).

It's not the 4/5 platforms envisaged under AIR-9000 but it's better than the 10 helo types we currently operate...

 

[Whiskyjack]

This could allow us some synergy with the reported upgraded Blackhawks that are going to be retained to support SOCOMD.

The ADF helo fleet would then be:

46x MRH-90 (to replace Blackhawk/Iroquois in Army and Seaking in Navy)

22x Tiger ARH (to replace Iroquois/Kiowa)

6x Chinook (with apparent further purchases of evolved variants to be made at some point).

12x Blackhawk specwarops variant

27x MH-60R Naval helo

?x (possibly 20-30) LUH/Training helo's for Army/Navy (to replace Kiowa in Army and Squirrel in Navy).

It's not the 4/5 platforms envisaged under AIR-9000 but it's better than the 10 helo types we currently operate...

My understanding from reading various articles was that is the purchase of the 34 MRH90s went ahead then the SpecOps blakhawk upgrade was NOT going ahead?

There was also talk of more CH-47s, which you have mentioned.

 

[Aussie Digger]

My understanding from reading various articles was that is the purchase of the 34 MRH90s went ahead then the SpecOps blakhawk upgrade was NOT going ahead?

There was also talk of more CH-47s, which you have mentioned.

Public media reports indicate the MRH-90 is going to fulfill the specwarops role, but this is contrary to the Government and Army's own announcements. I guess again, we'll have to wait for the DCP to be released to confirm this, but what people are failing to remember, IMHO, is that MRH-90 is not only replacing the Blackhawk capability, but also the Iroquois capability.

The initial 12 purchased were to replace our 25x Iroquois helo's due to the impending US withdrawal of support for the platform, not to provide an "additional" troop lift helo Sqn, despite the purchase being advertised as such.

Not replacing that capability leaves Army with a significantly lesser overall capability IMHO. The 40 MRH-90's on order have to replace 61 existing troop lift helo's.

If an entire MRH-90 Sqn is devoted to Special forces, Army is going to be significantly deficient in helo capacity compared to now...

 

[Whiskyjack]

Public media reports indicate the MRH-90 is going to fulfill the specwarops role, but this is contrary to the Government and Army's own announcements. I guess again, we'll have to wait for the DCP to be released to confirm this, but what people are failing to remember, IMHO, is that MRH-90 is not only replacing the Blackhawk capability, but also the Iroquois capability.

The initial 12 purchased were to replace our 25x Iroquois helo's due to the impending US withdrawal of support for the platform, not to provide an "additional" troop lift helo Sqn, despite the purchase being advertised as such.

Not replacing that capability leaves Army with a significantly lesser overall capability IMHO. The 40 MRH-90's on order have to replace 61 existing troop lift helo's.

If an entire MRH-90 Sqn is devoted to Special forces, Army is going to be significantly deficient in helo capacity compared to now...

Interesting. I guess we will see where this heads. Spec ops will need helos, in Iraq and Afghanistan the CH47 was the chopper of choice, from all reports. And I guess any further CH47 purchase will give the ADF greater flexibility in that regard.

Any Blackhawk upgrade would ideally need a Ch130 tanker to support it (and CH47)

In regards to maritime capability you quote 27 helos (Seasprite and Seahawk) With the introduction of the DDG there will only be 11 combat platforms for helos. My understanding is that the 16 Seahawks now provide helos to all surface combatants. The OHPs can carry two but usually deploy with 1 and a utility helo.

So would you need 27? If the LHDs carry some ASW helos I guess there will be a need for more. But there are also naval UAVs to consider. I am not sure why nasalised NH90s, which are already flying represent more risk than MH60s, unless they are a very different config…?

In a seated lift capacity the MRH90s carry 50% more troops than a Blackhawk and over twice that of the UH1 (NZ carries 7 troops and 4 crew), so 26 will be equivalent to 38 Blackhawks and 10 will cover UH1s. So less platforms but greater lift. Still more CH47s to factor in as well.

Ideally a LUH like the AW139 or EC635 would round out the ADF helo fleet. May even replace the Blackhawk for SpecOps at the lower end with the CH47 at the higher end?

These comments a really for discussion only, at least the ADF is heading for increased capability!

 

[Aussie Digger]

Interesting. I guess we will see where this heads. Spec ops will need helos, in Iraq and Afghanistan the CH47 was the chopper of choice, from all reports. And I guess any further CH47 purchase will give the ADF greater flexibility in that regard.

Any Blackhawk upgrade would ideally need a Ch130 tanker to support it (and CH47)

In regards to maritime capability you quote 27 helos (Seasprite and Seahawk) With the introduction of the DDG there will only be 11 combat platforms for helos. My understanding is that the 16 Seahawks now provide helos to all surface combatants. The OHPs can carry two but usually deploy with 1 and a utility helo.

So would you need 27? If the LHDs carry some ASW helos I guess there will be a need for more. But there are also naval UAVs to consider. I am not sure why nasalised NH90s, which are already flying represent more risk than MH60s, unless they are a very different config…?

In a seated lift capacity the MRH90s carry 50% more troops than a Blackhawk and over twice that of the UH1 (NZ carries 7 troops and 4 crew), so 26 will be equivalent to 38 Blackhawks and 10 will cover UH1s. So less platforms but greater lift. Still more CH47s to factor in as well.

Ideally a LUH like the AW139 or EC635 would round out the ADF helo fleet. May even replace the Blackhawk for SpecOps at the lower end with the CH47 at the higher end?

These comments a really for discussion only, at least the ADF is heading for increased capability!

Disregard all my previous comments. GF has announced on another forum, that more MRH-90's are going to be ordered at some point, he has indicated another 12-14 are to be ordered.

This will obviously solve the SOCOMD helo issue as well.

Just on the AWD issue, the 3 AWD's are not going to replace the FFG's straight away. There will be a period where we will be operating 14 surface combatants, hence the seemingly large helo numbers.

The FFG-UP program is not likely to have been completed for long before the first AWD is completed (around 2013), with the SM-2 missile only being "introduced" from 2009. Operational capability isn't likely until 2010-2011. The RAN and Government will want to get more than a few years out of this multi-billion dolalr upgrade program...

There are also persistent rumours and additional 3 AWD's will be ordered to replace the FFG's.

Anyhoo, you are correct in when you say ADF capability is increasing. The number of acquisition projects is literally staggering if you look at the list...

 

[Sea Toby]

Two billion Australian dollars for 34 NH90s. The math comes to Australian$ 58.8 million each. I assume this is the total program costs, spares and other equipment, plus support over 20 years.

I can understand Australia's order of the previous 12 NH90s to replace Hueys, but are the Blackhawks worn out to be replaced soon too?

 

[rossfrb_1]

Two billion Australian dollars for 34 NH90s. The math comes to Australian$ 58.8 million each. I assume this is the total program costs, spares and other equipment, plus support over 20 years.

I can understand Australia's order of the previous 12 NH90s to replace Hueys, but are the Blackhawks worn out to be replaced soon too?

ADF Blackhawks were acquired in the late 80s, early 90s
http://www.adf-serials.com/3a25.shtml

It appears that there are fatigue issues associated with the fleet
http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/publications/3820/
So it's getting to the time where some significant $$ have to thrown at them or get something else.

rb