Mil Mi-35P Hind-F and mig 23 flooger maintenance

[wittmanace]

as namibia has allegedly acquired two of each of these, i wondered what the maintenance costs would be roughly. i ask because i doubt namibia's ability to maintain these in her armed forces within announced budget (considering the other aquisitions), unless it is part of the chinese deal to build a new military academy, the new state house and the unannounced but visible surface to air missiles, also new (in the past 3 years).

so does anybody know the cost of
a) acquisition at market price, of 2 Mil Mi-35P Hind-F's?
b) the acquisition price of 2 mig 23's at market price?
c) roughly the annual cost of maintenance of the former?
d) rough annual maintenance cost of the latter?

any replies or a pointer in the right direction would be a great help.

 

[ROCK45]

I looked around

I looked around a found this story
Which shows 1.5- I assume $1.5 million but I don't know. On this Blog I found there are more stories about African countries. I didn't know a lot of this stuff maybe somebody from this region could comment what's on this Blog looks correct? Hope it helps a little at least to get an idea.

Any idea exactly what type Mig-23s they are? Any idea from which country they were bought from? Are they night capable because that would mean costing more and mostly likely had some upgrades made to them? Do you have anymore info or clues to work with?


Regrets Only: An Africa Journal: December 2007
... mission in the southwest African country expired. I was again in the Angolan capital, Luanda, and had this assessment. The effort in Angola has cost 1.5 ...
reporterregrets.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html - 167k - Cached - Similar pages


Monday, December 31, 2007
Deciding to Let the UNITA Scoop Slip Quietly Into Oblivion

As days went by and my efforts to obtain additional information about UNITA’s purported acquisition of MiGs, Hinds and Frogs proved fruitless, I decided to drop the story. Nonetheless, others were taking the information, and the threat it posed to the peace process, quite seriously.

The Angola Peace Monitor, for example, in its newsletter (Issue no. 8, Vol. V 29th April 1999), wrote:

“There have been several reports claiming that UNITA has bought six MiG-23 fighter jets (the London-based journal Southscan suggests that the aircraft could be Sukhoi-5's), and six Hind Mi-25 assault helicopters. If true, it would represent a spectacular increase in UNITA's capacity. However, a weapons expert quoted by the South African-based Mail & Guardian, said that six MiG's were too few to fundamentally alter the balance of power, and that 18 would be needed.

“According to reports the aircraft are being operated by mercenaries from either South Africa or Ukraine. Reports vary on where the MiG's are kept, with some saying that they are in Jamba in the south of Angola, with others claiming that they are kept in Togo in West Africa.

“However, many commentators doubt the veracity of these reports, pointing to the difficulties in maintaining and fuelling the aircraft, along with problems of airstrips and hiding the aircraft. The general consensus is that whilst it is possible, it is unlikely that UNITA has assault helicopters and improbable that they have fighter aircraft. One source has told the Angola Peace Monitor that UNITA did attempt to buy MiG's over a year ago, but were unable to complete the deal due to logistical problems.

“Despite the belief among commentators that the story is likely to emanate from UNITA itself for propaganda purposes, the upsurge in fighting in December 1998 showed that UNITA is much better armed than expected.

Human Rights Watch issued a lengthy report by Alex Vines in 1999 titled “ANGOLA UNRAVELS: The Rise and Fall of the Lusaka Peace Process” in which he wrote:

“Richard Cornwall of the Pretoria-based Institute of Security Studies has made more dramatic claims. He claims that UNITA recently obtained six Russian-made MiG-23 fighter aircraft, six MI-25 combat helicopters, fifty tanks and seventy armored troop carriers. He said the weaponry came mainly via Ukrainian suppliers. Cornwall has also claimed that the rebels have recently obtained more than twenty Russian-built unguided ground-to-ground mini-scud missiles, knownas FROGs, from North Korea and three Fox 7 surface to air missiles. To date Human Rights Watch has not independently confirmed this information.”

A footnote to this section stated: “Sean Cleary, Director of Strategic Concepts Ltd in South Africa, claims that he possesses evidence of one shipment of FROG rockets to UNITA from North Korea via Benin. He also claimed that UNITA may have obtained a couple of Alouette helicopters and two Mi-8 helicopters but that he did not believe the reports that UNITA had MiG-23s. Human Rights Watch interview , London, April 13, 1999.)”

In a few days, I will post the information I obtained in November 2002 from a senior UNITA official about these alleged arms purchases. I also have fresh queries out to some of my original sources to see if, with the passage of time, they might be willing to shed additional light on the origins of this scoop-that-wasn’t.

Link to the site
http://reporterregrets.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

 

[ROCK45]

If it was ZAMBIA

ZAMBIA I found this it's a little old, I know it isn't the same country. By collecting a few different arms sale for the region you may be able to get a rough price and know a little better why the weapons/aircraft are from. The more I dig the more I find Africa can be intense I see.

DATE=4/9/99 TYPE=CORRESPONDENT REPORT NUMBER=2-247832 TITLE=ANGOLA / ZAMBIA (L ONLY) BYLINE=ALEX BELIDA DATELINE=JOHANNESBURG CONTENT= VOICED AT: INTRO: THERE ARE NEW PUBLISHED ALLEGATIONS OF ZAMBIAN COMPLICITY IN THE ACQUISITION OF MIG FIGHTER-BOMBERS BY ANGOLA'S UNITA REBEL MOVEMENT. V-O-A CORRESPONDENT ALEX BELIDA REPORTS FROM OUR SOUTHERN AFRICA BUREAU. TEXT: THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" NEWSPAPER OF SOUTH AFRICA REPORTS SIX MIG-23 JETS, PILOTED BY UKRAINIANS, SPENT NEARLY TWO WEEKS EARLIER THIS YEAR AT ZAMBIA'S NDOLA AIRPORT. THE PUBLICATION SAYS AIRPORT AUTHORITIES INITIALLY CLAIMED THE AIRCRAFT BELONGED TO THE ZAMBIAN AIR FORCE AND WERE UNDERGOING REPAIRS. BUT THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" SAYS THAT EXPLANATION WAS ABANDONED AFTER IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ZAMBIAN OFFICIALS THAT THEIR COUNTRY'S AIR FORCE DID NOT HAVE ANY MIG-23'S. HOWEVER, AS FIRST REPORTED BY THE VOICE OF AMERICA, THE UNITA REBEL MOVEMENT RECENTLY TOOK DELIVERY OF SIX MIG-23'S, WHICH SECURITY SOURCES SAY WERE PURCHASED FROM SUPPLIERS IN THE UKRAINE. A SENIOR ANGOLAN OFFICIAL INTERVIEWED BY V-O-A HAS CHARGED ZAMBIA'S GOVERNMENT BROKERED THE PURCHASE OF THE JETS AS WELL AS THE ACQUISITION BY THE REBELS OF SEVERAL MI-25 HIND HELICOPTERS. THE OFFICIAL CLAIMS THAT IN RETURN FOR ARRANGING THE ARMS TRANSFER, ZAMBIA RECEIVED AN UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF AIRCRAFT FOR ITSELF, PAID FOR BY UNITA. ZAMBIA HAS DENIED THE CHARGES. THE UNITA MIGS ARE UNDERSTOOD TO BE BASED IN REBEL-HELD TERRITORY IN SOUTHEASTERN ANGOLA. SO FAR, THERE HAVE BEEN NO CONFIRMED REPORTS OF THE AIRCRAFT BEING USED IN ATTACK MISSIONS. THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" REPORT ABOUT ZAMBIA'S ALLEGED ASSISTANCE TO THE REBELS FOLLOWS A SUMMIT MEETING IN LUANDA THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER THE LEADERS OF ANGOLA, CONGO-KINSHASA, NAMIBIA, AND ZIMBABWE TO SIGN A DEFENSE PACT AND TO DISCUSS REGIONAL SECURITY ISSUES. A COMMUNIQUE ON THE TALKS INCLUDED A NEW APPEAL TO OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES TO STRICTLY OBSERVE UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS BARRING AID TO UNITA. (SIGNED) NEB/BEL/JWH 09-Apr-99 8:36 AM EDT (1236 UTC) NNNN Source: Voice of America .

link
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/1999/04/990409-angola.htm

 

[Izzy1]

ZAMBIA I found this it's a little old, I know it isn't the same country. By collecting a few different arms sale for the region you may be able to get a rough price and know a little better why the weapons/aircraft are from. The more I dig the more I find Africa can be intense I see.

DATE=4/9/99 TYPE=CORRESPONDENT REPORT NUMBER=2-247832 TITLE=ANGOLA / ZAMBIA (L ONLY) BYLINE=ALEX BELIDA DATELINE=JOHANNESBURG CONTENT= VOICED AT: INTRO: THERE ARE NEW PUBLISHED ALLEGATIONS OF ZAMBIAN COMPLICITY IN THE ACQUISITION OF MIG FIGHTER-BOMBERS BY ANGOLA'S UNITA REBEL MOVEMENT. V-O-A CORRESPONDENT ALEX BELIDA REPORTS FROM OUR SOUTHERN AFRICA BUREAU. TEXT: THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" NEWSPAPER OF SOUTH AFRICA REPORTS SIX MIG-23 JETS, PILOTED BY UKRAINIANS, SPENT NEARLY TWO WEEKS EARLIER THIS YEAR AT ZAMBIA'S NDOLA AIRPORT. THE PUBLICATION SAYS AIRPORT AUTHORITIES INITIALLY CLAIMED THE AIRCRAFT BELONGED TO THE ZAMBIAN AIR FORCE AND WERE UNDERGOING REPAIRS. BUT THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" SAYS THAT EXPLANATION WAS ABANDONED AFTER IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ZAMBIAN OFFICIALS THAT THEIR COUNTRY'S AIR FORCE DID NOT HAVE ANY MIG-23'S. HOWEVER, AS FIRST REPORTED BY THE VOICE OF AMERICA, THE UNITA REBEL MOVEMENT RECENTLY TOOK DELIVERY OF SIX MIG-23'S, WHICH SECURITY SOURCES SAY WERE PURCHASED FROM SUPPLIERS IN THE UKRAINE. A SENIOR ANGOLAN OFFICIAL INTERVIEWED BY V-O-A HAS CHARGED ZAMBIA'S GOVERNMENT BROKERED THE PURCHASE OF THE JETS AS WELL AS THE ACQUISITION BY THE REBELS OF SEVERAL MI-25 HIND HELICOPTERS. THE OFFICIAL CLAIMS THAT IN RETURN FOR ARRANGING THE ARMS TRANSFER, ZAMBIA RECEIVED AN UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF AIRCRAFT FOR ITSELF, PAID FOR BY UNITA. ZAMBIA HAS DENIED THE CHARGES. THE UNITA MIGS ARE UNDERSTOOD TO BE BASED IN REBEL-HELD TERRITORY IN SOUTHEASTERN ANGOLA. SO FAR, THERE HAVE BEEN NO CONFIRMED REPORTS OF THE AIRCRAFT BEING USED IN ATTACK MISSIONS. THE "MAIL AND GUARDIAN" REPORT ABOUT ZAMBIA'S ALLEGED ASSISTANCE TO THE REBELS FOLLOWS A SUMMIT MEETING IN LUANDA THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER THE LEADERS OF ANGOLA, CONGO-KINSHASA, NAMIBIA, AND ZIMBABWE TO SIGN A DEFENSE PACT AND TO DISCUSS REGIONAL SECURITY ISSUES. A COMMUNIQUE ON THE TALKS INCLUDED A NEW APPEAL TO OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES TO STRICTLY OBSERVE UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS BARRING AID TO UNITA. (SIGNED) NEB/BEL/JWH 09-Apr-99 8:36 AM EDT (1236 UTC) NNNN Source: Voice of America .

link
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/1999/04/990409-angola.htm

ROCK45 Not being funny - can you honestly read all that shit above?

You seem to know the English Language, then why not bless us all by spliting up your text and give all a chance to read it?

 

[wittmanace]

these reports show the importance of date here... Namibia stopped taking part against unita in 1990 offficially and actually had left angola by a year later, to collection point observed by the un and had some clashes in 1990 in namibia itself with the then sadf. the war in angola rbded in 2002 officially and unita was integrated into the new angolan army, the FAA. last year i had the opportunity to speak to the actual historian section of the FAA and they told me all of unita was integrated into the faa after the death of savimbi. at some sites i was shown the soldiers, side by side were ex unita as well as ex mpla and ex fnla. thus this story about unita doesnt help, as these arms went to the faa, if they were procured, or they would have been kept by the host countries if they were kept there.

as namibia's j-7's are day only, not all weather, i suspect the reason for having the mig 23's is for all weather, though i dont know the versions and dont know this for sure. i was in Namibiaon independence day a few years ago and a fly-by was cancelled due to weather conditions, during the military parade, causing a blush of sorts. at that point namibia was said to only have j-7's.

 

[ROCK45]

Blessed

Rushing and did a copy and paste so the guy who's looking for information could see what it look like. My fault for not checking what it look like I assumed it was find but did put a link to support what I found. The text was a little funny on the web site and carried over badly.