Midtguardian Defence Force

[Bozoo]

F 4 Phantom as platform for AIM 54 Phoenix

My point of interest in this forum is my attempts to create a viable defence force for the H0 scale (1:87) country of Midtguardia.

Even though currently deploying more than 2.500 military vehicles and more than 150 aircraft, mostly helicopters, I have a major air defence problem.

My GBAD consists of man-portable Stingers and the corresponding Avenger systems, a battery of Sidewinderbased Chapparals and a sprinckling of Rolands in addition to a large number of Gepard AAA tanks.

I have no long range/high altitude systems, mainly because these just don't exist in H0 scale and must therefore be scratch-buildt which places me in dire jepardy when faced with a tier 2 or 3 opponent.

Unfortunately, modern fighters cannot be aquired in H0 scale through ordinary means, but must be custom buildt for the price of USD 300 pr unit, something which would place an unacceptable burden on my defence budget.

I do, however, have 15 F 4 Phantom II's, of which 12 are deployed as air superiority fighters. Unfortunately, the planes are obsolete and probably of noe value at all against 4th generation jet fighters.

On the other hand, the Phantom is a big, powerful and sturdy airframe with an outstanding service record and therefore probably ideally suited as a weapons platform.

What I would like to do is to marry the F 4 airframe with the long range stand-off kill capability of the AIM 54 Phoenix 100 nm + range and the AWG-9 radar of the F-14 Tomcat. As far as I can understand the Phantom has room and lift capability to accomodate these weapons.

My quiestion is therefore whether it is a practical solution to equip the Phantom with AIIM 54 Phoenix, and, if so, how many missiles will it be able to carry. The Aim 120 Amraam seems to fit in the body recesses of the Phantom, giving it a possible payload of 6 missiles, but the Phoenix has a much greater diameter than the Amraam and will probably not fit in the recesses. Is it possible to widen the recesses? I guess that the AWG-9 radar would fit behind the nose-cone radome of the F 4, but would there be other externally visible changes to the F 4 following such a conversion plan?

I am unfamilier with the specifics of the Amraam? I seem to remember a combination of infra-red and radar targeting, is that correct? Can they compete with the Phoenix? If so, an Amraam conversion would of coarse be the simplest.

As far as I can tell, such a conversion would make the F 4 a formidable player in the air superiority role, especially combined with AEW. I have therefore a E2C Hawkeye under production with a second under order which I beleive would constitute a viable air defence force for a small nation?

Would I be way off if I calculate with a 2 machine continues CAP capability with 2 more on 5 minute stand-by and another 2 on two hours with the 12 machines I dispose?

I am grateful for any response.

Dag Sverre

 

[rjmaz1]

If i've read this correctly..

You've made a scaled down country and named it "Midtguardia"

Is this country a computer simulaion or you've built a physical country?

If its a physical like a large model railway then it would be incredibly big and I definitely want to see pics. I assume it has been built outdoors?

As its only a scale model I would not get to hung up on having a realistic scaled military as the biggest threat to your scaled down country would be damage from other people and even animals.

For such a small country you must have quite a few enemy's to require a constant air patrol.. Do the other simulated countries have stealth aircraft.. Why not head down to the nearest toy store and buy some starwars fighters? You'll have the best airforce by miles.


Answering ur question..

The idea of adding Phoenix missiles to the Phantom would not work well at all. The diameter of the radar is too big. The missiles would also foul the centre pylon. The newer radars and missiles may be smaller but they are very powerful. A current block F-16 would have better situational awareness than an old awg-9 radar. A AIM-120c7 would have a longer actual range as a package in modern combat.

I'd keep using the AMRAAMS and instead use targetting information from the AWACs. Being emission cold will give the old phantom a chance, it can turn away as soon as the missiles are fired.

 

[Bozoo]

rjmaz1, thanks for your reply. I realize that my hobby is somewhat on the side of the mainstream on this forum. Even so, there are a number of postings and pictures concerning scale models in Defence Talk, which is why I have the audacity to attempt to participate.

Midtguardia is no computer simulation. It is, of coarse, neither a downscaled, physical country, as even a lilliput state like Lichtenstein would need several square miles of countryside, in which case Midtguardia would have been a famuos tourist attraction.

What it is, is an intellectual "exercise" where I try to visualize the elements necessary to make up a functioning society, and then recreate parts of this in the H0 scale incorporating as many of these elements as possible. This entails a lot of information gathering about how a society in fact works, what services are necessary, how to supply electricity, police, postal services, schools, hospitals etc, and how the economy works, e.g. what elements are necessary to get the individual goods out to the inhabitants, which industries the country must rely on etc.

These considerations manefest themselves into the construction of the model railroad layout in such a way that my railway set up has much less railroad and much more buildings and roads than the usual model railroader prefers, as I have emphasis on what would work in real life and not on driving trains.

The main feature of the railroad is Midtguardias capital city, Gustavsberg, which occupied a room of 6 x 4 meters. Unfortunately this is packed away at the moment, due to my divorce a year ago, but I am working on finding a new location.

As a part of this hobby I started working on creating a viable defence force more than 20 years ago. This manefested itself physically in three ways, a small military warf serving my two coast guard cutters, and a SOC radar station on the mountains behind the capital, as well as the actual physical existance of scale models of the military hardware necessary for building up the defence force.

In reality, this means I actually have more thans 2.500 models of military vehichles and weapons in the H0 scale, mainly from Roco Minitanks, but also from Faller, Preiser and Trident.

These models are organized into units, and a lot of thought has gone into which units to create and how to aquire the necessary defence capabilities to make the defence a viable one with the equipment avaliable in the H0 scale.

Just to give you a clue, the Midtguardian defence force is organized along the lines of a division. The main elements are the armoured brigade (4 armorued squadrons each of 24 MBT's, two equipped with M1 Abrahms, one with Leopard I A 4, the last at cadre strength awaiting tank procurement, in addition to HQ Sq., artillery, Mech inf, Air Defence, Combat Engineers, transport, recce and Tech support), and the motorized Infantry brigade.

There are a number of divisional units, such as an artillery Bn, engineer Bn (with separate companies for minelaying, mineclearing, construction, bridging and combat support), signals Bn, Transport Bn, MP Bn, Air Defence Bn, as well as some independant units such as a mountain Coy, Special Ops Coy, a Mech. Inf. Coy and many small units performing special tasks, e.g. Field Service Radio (you know - the Good Morning Vietnam), field baths, field postal service, intelligence and so on and so on.

Every one of these equipped with actual, physical hardware in the H0 scale, sorted and packed in individual boxes (the total lineup filling nearly a complete floor in my house) the order of battle described, and in some instances also described tactics.

Now, as for every other country, Midtguardia must be able to defend itself from attack, even though there are no evident enemies at the moment. One must defend against other countries capabilities, not their intentions. This, of coarse, as intentions can change over night, but capabilities, especially limitations in these, are more "durable". (A fact many real life countries seem to have forgotten)

This is the background for my participation on Defence Talk, and I do apologize for this not beeing as serious as one would maybe wish, but hope you all will bear with me.

Now, the Midtguardian Defence Forces also have an Air Force. As I am adament that only correct scale is allowed, and therefore cannot use scale 1:72, the avaliability of hardware is very limited.

What I do have is this:

1 squadron of 12 F 4 Phantom II Air defence fighters (as you already know)
1 sqdr of 3 RF 4 recon fighters
1 sqdr. of 3 PJ 38 WWII vintage flying Elint missions

2 squadrons of 12 UH1D transport helicopters
1 sqdr. of 12 UH1D Gunships (Vietnam era)
1 sqdr. of 12 AH1 Cobra
1 sqdr. of 12 AH64D Longbow Apache
1 sqdr. of 2 CH 53 Super Stallion heavy transports (wish I had more)

In addition, there is a squadron operating miscallaneous mahines deployed with other units, these consists of the following machines

1 UH1D deployed as division commanders personal machine
1 UH1D SAR
3 MeBøBl SP 105 deployed with armoured brigade HQ as recce assets
3 MeBøBl SP 105 deployed with divisional HQ as recce assets
6 UH 1 D deployed Field hospital as Ambulance helicopters
1 Eurocopter 130 as VIP service (2 more on order)
1 AH1 Cobra deployed with special ops

I also have an unknown number of UH1 D's that are currently not deployed (probably 5 - 6 machines)

I have decided to aquire a squadron of three E2C Hawkeyes , but these must be aquired over some time as they must be custom made and cost USD 300 pr. piece. I find them of paramount importance though. I have one building at the moment with delivery in approx 70 days.

I'm also considering buying modern fighter jets, but these cost as much as the Hawkeyes. I have decided on the F-22 Raptor, which, as far as I can see, will be the best machine for Air Superiority missions in the foreseeable future. How many do you think would be the minimum number to have any real impact on my air defence situation? Remember, my airspace is rather limited, although Midtguardia is situated on the coast.

 

[Twister]

Why not just buy some F-14A and AIM-54 Pheonix from Iranian?

 

[rjmaz1]

Firstly the F-22 is not for sale to international nations if you want to be realisstic. So that would rule that aircraft out and possibly the F-35. Plus getting custom made models at $300 each is starting to get expensive.

secondly, If Midtguardia is considered a second or even third tier nation then the F4 phantom is a very realistic aircraft for such country. Hundreds of F4's are still operational in upgraded form. Equiped with AMRAAM and a modern radar such as an APG-79 it will be quite lethal against 4th gen and 4.5gen aircraft. A datalink with the E-2 hawkeyes you are purchasing will no doubt make the Phantoms highly lethal as they can shoot and scoot with midcourse updates to the missiles provided by the hawkeye.

Integration of units is more important than aircraft versus aircarft comparisons. I well integrated air defence system involving air and ground based weapons will be quite formidble-

You mentioned that Midtguardia is located on a coast yet it seems you have limited anti-ship capability. Ground based missile and gun placements on the coast would prevent enemy ships approaching within 50 miles. Very cost effective.

Iran uses similar systems which could effectively blockade the gulf and is difficult to counter.

 

[Feanor]

The effectiveness of an artillery and GBAD envelope is directly dependent on the modernity of said arty and GBAD, as well as the C4ISTAR assets that you have, to allow that GBAD and coastal arty to act as part of an overall battle-space control system. If you're a tiny country with a low budget, then anyone with stand-off weapons, and VLO platforms or effective jammers, will be able to negate it. If you're fighting an opponent your own size, then your airforce will do just as well as a combination of GBAD and arty, in terms of delivering payload to targets.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The effectiveness of an artillery and GBAD envelope is directly dependent on the modernity of said arty and GBAD, as well as the C4ISTAR assets that you have, to allow that GBAD and coastal arty to act as part of an overall battle-space control system.

I totally agree. Immobility in the modern battle space is akin to a death warrant.

If you're a tiny country with a low budget, then anyone with stand-off weapons, and VLO platforms or effective jammers, will be able to negate it.

Agreed, however if you're going to go up against a tier one power in full blown state on state conflict even if you had A grade tech your going to get smashed.

If you're fighting an opponent your own size, then your airforce will do just as well as a combination of GBAD and arty, in terms of delivering payload to targets.

I'll have to disagree with you here. Air power, even tactical air power, can have strategic influence by providing you with the ability to engage strategic targets. Its a level of offensive capability that arty, even defended by extremely capable GBAD will never be able to provide in the same manner. In any case air power clearly outperforms arty in terms of payload on a specific target at range.

In a conflict with a comparable regional peer, even if you have a single squadron air force air superiority will be vital.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

rjmaz1, thanks for your reply. I realize that my hobby is somewhat on the side of the mainstream on this forum. Even so, there are a number of postings and pictures concerning scale models in Defence Talk, which is why I have the audacity to attempt to participate.

Midtguardia is no computer simulation. It is, of coarse, neither a downscaled, physical country, as even a lilliput state like Lichtenstein would need several square miles of countryside, in which case Midtguardia would have been a famuos tourist attraction.

What it is, is an intellectual "exercise" where I try to visualize the elements necessary to make up a functioning society, and then recreate parts of this in the H0 scale incorporating as many of these elements as possible. This entails a lot of information gathering about how a society in fact works, what services are necessary, how to supply electricity, police, postal services, schools, hospitals etc, and how the economy works, e.g. what elements are necessary to get the individual goods out to the inhabitants, which industries the country must rely on etc.

These considerations manefest themselves into the construction of the model railroad layout in such a way that my railway set up has much less railroad and much more buildings and roads than the usual model railroader prefers, as I have emphasis on what would work in real life and not on driving trains.

The main feature of the railroad is Midtguardias capital city, Gustavsberg, which occupied a room of 6 x 4 meters. Unfortunately this is packed away at the moment, due to my divorce a year ago, but I am working on finding a new location.

As a part of this hobby I started working on creating a viable defence force more than 20 years ago. This manefested itself physically in three ways, a small military warf serving my two coast guard cutters, and a SOC radar station on the mountains behind the capital, as well as the actual physical existance of scale models of the military hardware necessary for building up the defence force.

In reality, this means I actually have more thans 2.500 models of military vehichles and weapons in the H0 scale, mainly from Roco Minitanks, but also from Faller, Preiser and Trident.

These models are organized into units, and a lot of thought has gone into which units to create and how to aquire the necessary defence capabilities to make the defence a viable one with the equipment avaliable in the H0 scale.

Just to give you a clue, the Midtguardian defence force is organized along the lines of a division. The main elements are the armoured brigade (4 armorued squadrons each of 24 MBT's, two equipped with M1 Abrahms, one with Leopard I A 4, the last at cadre strength awaiting tank procurement, in addition to HQ Sq., artillery, Mech inf, Air Defence, Combat Engineers, transport, recce and Tech support), and the motorized Infantry brigade.

There are a number of divisional units, such as an artillery Bn, engineer Bn (with separate companies for minelaying, mineclearing, construction, bridging and combat support), signals Bn, Transport Bn, MP Bn, Air Defence Bn, as well as some independant units such as a mountain Coy, Special Ops Coy, a Mech. Inf. Coy and many small units performing special tasks, e.g. Field Service Radio (you know - the Good Morning Vietnam), field baths, field postal service, intelligence and so on and so on.

Every one of these equipped with actual, physical hardware in the H0 scale, sorted and packed in individual boxes (the total lineup filling nearly a complete floor in my house) the order of battle described, and in some instances also described tactics.

Now, as for every other country, Midtguardia must be able to defend itself from attack, even though there are no evident enemies at the moment. One must defend against other countries capabilities, not their intentions. This, of coarse, as intentions can change over night, but capabilities, especially limitations in these, are more "durable". (A fact many real life countries seem to have forgotten)

This is the background for my participation on Defence Talk, and I do apologize for this not beeing as serious as one would maybe wish, but hope you all will bear with me.

Now, the Midtguardian Defence Forces also have an Air Force. As I am adament that only correct scale is allowed, and therefore cannot use scale 1:72, the avaliability of hardware is very limited.

What I do have is this:

1 squadron of 12 F 4 Phantom II Air defence fighters (as you already know)
1 sqdr of 3 RF 4 recon fighters
1 sqdr. of 3 PJ 38 WWII vintage flying Elint missions

2 squadrons of 12 UH1D transport helicopters
1 sqdr. of 12 UH1D Gunships (Vietnam era)
1 sqdr. of 12 AH1 Cobra
1 sqdr. of 12 AH64D Longbow Apache
1 sqdr. of 2 CH 53 Super Stallion heavy transports (wish I had more)

In addition, there is a squadron operating miscallaneous mahines deployed with other units, these consists of the following machines

1 UH1D deployed as division commanders personal machine
1 UH1D SAR
3 MeBøBl SP 105 deployed with armoured brigade HQ as recce assets
3 MeBøBl SP 105 deployed with divisional HQ as recce assets
6 UH 1 D deployed Field hospital as Ambulance helicopters
1 Eurocopter 130 as VIP service (2 more on order)
1 AH1 Cobra deployed with special ops

I also have an unknown number of UH1 D's that are currently not deployed (probably 5 - 6 machines)

I have decided to aquire a squadron of three E2C Hawkeyes , but these must be aquired over some time as they must be custom made and cost USD 300 pr. piece. I find them of paramount importance though. I have one building at the moment with delivery in approx 70 days.

I'm also considering buying modern fighter jets, but these cost as much as the Hawkeyes. I have decided on the F-22 Raptor, which, as far as I can see, will be the best machine for Air Superiority missions in the foreseeable future. How many do you think would be the minimum number to have any real impact on my air defence situation? Remember, my airspace is rather limited, although Midtguardia is situated on the coast.

Hi Bozoo. Welcome to the forums.

This all sounds extremely interesting. I'd love to see some photo's if you have any. 20 years work, it must be quite a site.

As for your questions.

The AWG-9 and AIM-54 Pheonex are in fact both out of production and not in use any more, apart from a few examples in Iran. Thus this is not a realistic option. Upgrading the F-4 airframe to a modern standard has been done before. The Greek Air Force still fly F-4's with AN/APG-66 radars and AIM-120B's. This is the most likely option for upgrade as both the FCR and missile system are widely available on the international arms market and the work has been carried out before. Another possibility is the Elta EL/M-2032 multimode radar and Derby missile combination provided by the Israelis, they have installed that radar missile combination on MiG-21's successfully, thus western technology should be a less challenging option. Either of these options are much more realistic than equiping an F-4 with an out of production missile and radar.

As for the number, 24 would be ideal. That would provide a full 18 strong squadron + strategic reserves.

Also if you are going to acquire modern fighters there is really only one practical choice IMHO. F-16MLU's. There is no way on earth even 2nd tier air forces will get their hands on an F-22A. That is simply not going to happen. In any case F-22A's do have some limitations in the strike role. F-35's are WAY too expensive for a tiny, one squadron air force, and in essence that platform is overkill. You could pick up ex NATO F-16A MLU fighters with relatively low hours for ~$30m USD. IIRC Jordan picked up a few surplus Belgian examples for some spare change a few months back. The MLU package in essence provides the user with block 50 capability, meaning AIM-120, PGM's, anti radiation missiles (HARM), Litening targeting pod, and if need be HARPOON for maritime strike. Additionally the F-16 is the most widely available western fighter on the modern arms market, thus there are parts and support infrastructure EVERYWHERE, meaning the platforms will be cheap and easy to maintain. F-16 ticks all the boxes; its cheap, its capable full spectrum, is widely available and easily maintainable. Its a no brainer IMHO.

Also i just wanted to touch on the Hawkeyes. They are highly capable systems and would provide your nation it a quantum leap in capability. However, AWACS esk platforms are only available to a small number of nations because they are very very expensive. If your nation only has 24 combat capable aircraft how has it been able to afford a hugely expensive and prestige platform like an E-2C? That doesn't really seem plausible to me. There would have to be a dozen other items that could have been bought before your nations government decided to spend several hundred million dollars on a single E-2C.

I hoped this has been of some help.

 

[Feanor]

I totally agree. Immobility in the modern battle space is akin to a death warrant.

The problem isn't so much immobility, and even as much immobility as modern arty and GBAD is highly mobile, as it is whether they will get targetting data on time to engage. Do they have recon UAVs, or recon aircraft, are the units datalinked, is there a network...... or is it a bunch of SAMs and arty pointed towards the coastline?

Agreed, however if you're going to go up against a tier one power in full blown state on state conflict even if you had A grade tech your going to get smashed.

The idea is to raise the price tag of the conflict to an unacceptably high one. Since a tier one power will always be assymetric in nature, compared to our tiny little country, the idea is to make sure that you're armed well enough that there is nothing there worth while to spend the effort fighting the war.

I'll have to disagree with you here. Air power, even tactical air power, can have strategic influence by providing you with the ability to engage strategic targets. Its a level of offensive capability that arty, even defended by extremely capable GBAD will never be able to provide in the same manner. In any case air power clearly outperforms arty in terms of payload on a specific target at range.

In a conflict with a comparable regional peer, even if you have a single squadron air force air superiority will be vital.

An opponent that's of comparable size, is so small that arty would be able to fire across almost the entire country, and GBAD engagement zones would overlap heavily into the other sides territory. Keep in mind the scenario we're talking about. My opinion was contextualized.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

An opponent that's of comparable size, is so small that arty would be able to fire across almost the entire country, and GBAD engagement zones would overlap heavily into the other sides territory. Keep in mind the scenario we're talking about. My opinion was contextualized.

I do and have, my point still stands.

Artillery is not a precise weapon, unless you are using state of the art systems. Can you imagine attempting to destroy a pin point, hardened C3I target with arty? Good luck. Now try doing it in a heavily populated area. The collateral damage would be massive. Now even if you use precision guided rounds tac air can remain on station, at altitude providing invaluable ISTAR capability. Arty will never be able to achieve strategic strike capability comparable to tac air, even if all the nessesary targets are in range.

Anyway how can you be sure any neighbors will be the same size geographically, even if they are comparable in military capability? That seems to be quite a leap of logic IMHO.

 

[Feanor]

True. But for the cost, much more arty can be used. I guess we don't have enough information here. What kind of government do we have? If it's a dictatorship then we can disregard collateral damage concerns in military planning. Where is the country located, what kinds of neighbors does it have? Is it in Europe, is it a potential NATO/EU state in the future? Is it in Africa, and happens to be in the 10 poorest nations? What can it afford? What is it's current force structure? What are it's options in terms of procurement, politically? What is it's doctrine?

 

[shrubage]

For small nation with a limited budget I think you need to stay away from complex weapons systems and the huge logistical and servicibility issues that come with them.

Certain items that Bozoo mentioned a small nation should avoid like the plague.I personally consider the AH64 to be a wildly overated piece of kit but thats just my own opinion. What's not just an opinion is the chronic servicibility problems even a major force like the British army struggles to keep more than a handful of them in the air at any one time. Likewise with the 24 MBTs what role are a small amount of tanks realistically going to be. Both systems are going to suck your defence budget dry and if a conflict occurs at short notice you'll find that large amounts of your MBTs and AH64s are sitting in hangers in bits waiting for the new financial year.

Even the F4 do you really want a single squadron of aircraft thats going to require your nations puts in place huge infastructure as well as the writing of regular cheques to the Israelis or whoever is going to rebuild the plane.

 

[shrubage]

If you really want to build a defence force that gives a first tier power pause how about you consider this.

Be slow to buy any system that isn't man portable. First tier powers aren't frightened of huge squadrons of state of the art fighter jets. What does scare them is modern MANPADS SA-18, Mistral, RBS 70 or if slightly more ambitious SA-13(not a mapads but a passive system) how about something like the passive thales ADATS that will queue your MANPADS crews to incoming threats. There’s not going to be any low level bombing or attack helicopters cruising your airspace if they think they're multi million pound jet is going to be blown out of the sky by some reservist.

As for your ground forces how about you stick with the old reliable the Mortar. This is something your own defence industry can construct, worried about counter battery fire? well how about you build multi barrelled disposable mortars with remote launch. Good signals detachments with passive kit that will detect when locating radar is active. Plenty of ATGW's and don't be cheap and try to skimp on training they may cost up to 50k a pop but make sure each one of your of your crews have fired at least one in training. In fact as a proportion of your defence budget your training should suck money. Well trained signallers, working a modern comms system thats frequency agile with burst transmission will give you command and control of small scattered units riding out the air attack. Anti tank mines are cheap again something your own industry can construct; you'll need good engineers to lay them properly and infantry that can exploit them.

As for Naval Defence anti ship missiles are cheap, ships not so much if you have a coast line and face possible amphibious actions, then buy some truck mounted missiles. How about the Norwegian penguin, with good crews that spend their time looking for good vehicle hides well inland, on the coast how about some well trained OP guys even if their amphibious ships stay well off the coast the missile only needs approximate targeting data. They'll probably never fire a shot but a first tier power aren't going to risk their shiny expensive amphibious warfare ships until they're a 100% certain they've got all the launchers.

The air defence system I described will protect against low level bombing and Air mobile troops but it won't help against high level bombing. So how about a good civil defence that keeps the basic structure of the country running. And just to soak up the enemies munitions how about lots of well manufactured decoys again something your indigenous industry should so.

This system won't stop you getting pounded but it will preserve the territorial integrity of your nation. Give the F4’s a miss and look to your army.

 

[Bozoo]

Feanor and Ozzy Blizzard, thank you so much for your comments. It is a great joy for me to get such feedback from people who know what they are talking about. Due to a number of reasons, my knowledge is, unfortunately, somewhat out of date, but I'm cathcing up.

You too rjmaz1. Your advise is taken ad notam and the plan to equip the Phantoms with Phoenix is hereby scrapped and work will shortly commence on upgrading the entire squadron with thye AIM 120Bs and AN/APG 66 radars. Do you have any idea whether such an upgrade would be visible externally apart from cahnging the missiles? The ones I have got seem to be equipped with the AIM 7 Sparrow, which looks very much like the Amraams as far as I can see.

I have to identify the type of datalink used to communicate with the Hawkeyes, as it is a prerequisite for me to be able to describe the function and name any system utilized in the MDF that are not of such size that it is physically represented in the set up. Do you have any suggestions. Would it be visible on the Hawkeye, if so I need to ajust the production line before delivery is taken of the first machine.

MIDTGUARDIAN history and Geography.

As Feanor has pointed out, the choises taken in creating the Midtguardian Defence Forces are, of coarse, steered by the strategic situation, a situation you know nothing about. I will try to enlighten you.

Midtguardia is situated between the Norwegian and Swedish borders, with a 25 km long coastline protected by a bewildering archepelagos of more than one hundred small islands, all uninhabitet. The country is approximately 30 x 50 km all in all and encompasses, in addition to the capital city of Gustavsberg with 60.000 inhabitants, two small towns, a fishing villiage and a mountain villiage, both with ca. 5.000 inhabitants, bringing the countrys population to a total of 96.000 souls, ore somewhat less then one third of Icelands population.

The country is situated on a flat plain behind wild mountains on three sides, which provides a formidable defnce barrier and is the cause of the countrys existance in the first place. There was historically only one single mountain pass passable during winter with a long, winding mountain road, but it is now connected with a modern tunnel and a railroad passing through these mountains, the original road now beeing the scenic route through the mountain villiage on the summit. This constitutes the only two road arteries between Midtguardia and the two neighbours, Sweden and Norway, the tunnels exiting exactly in the middle of the borders of these two countries.

The terrain along the coast both to the south to Sweden and to the north to Norway is passable for tracked vehicles, but there are, due to the political and historical situation, no roads. The Midtguardian waters are sheltered and quite easily traversed by small boats, but afford only one approach to the singel deep water harbour in the estuary of the river Auli, an approach guarded by the 19th century fort, Einarsfors.

Midtguardia was founded in 1786 by a brigadeer general, Reinholdt Aamodt, and the remnants of the 23. Dragoon regiment after fighting their way from Trondheim towards Denmark following an attempt by the Danish-Norwegian king to have Aamodt and his family executed and the regiment left to flounder due to treacherous machinations by his enemies. Without delving furter into the history, which in it self is an exiting tale, Aamodt and his loyal followers refused the Royal command and escaped into the natural fortress that today is known as Midtguardia. There they carved out their own country and repelled all attacks from both Norway and Sweden, who both took exeption to someone establishing their own state on their territory.

Reinholdt Aamodt, beeing of good ancestry with close ties to England, and of considerable wealth, managed to manouver politically in the then volatile situation, to such an extent that he managed to keep his and his familys wealth and thereby to buy the supplies and weapons that, together with a lojal and military capable population, negated Norways and Swedens attempts to regain their territory.

Midtguardia managed to stay out of WWI and was never challenged during the WWII, even though providing a safe heaven for Jews and others trying to escape Nazi rule. The country, even then, beeing more or less a military organizaton bristlig with wepons and with nearly every man and woman under arms, was by Hitler considered not worth the losses an attack would incur and he left Midtguardia alone, even though it was fiercly anti nazi and time and again flounted Hitlers many attempts to bring political preassure to bear.

Midtguardia has not been accepted as a nation by any other nation in the world and neither Norway nor Sweden has made official peace, but, since 1945, both conutries have tacitly tolerated the country and there are today railroad routes between the countries.

The country is quite rich, partly due to it beeing a tax heaven and an international finance hub, mostly due to the influx of jews around the WW II, but also on account of its large interantional shipping fleet ranging as the worlds 6 th largest. The country also have a part of an oil field, giving good revenue.

The country is a Principate, that is as a monarchy, but with the head of state having the title of Prince, not king. The prince is an hereditary title going to the oldest son, directly lineanated from the original leader, Reinholdt Aamodt.

There is a national assembly the Tingvald, which, with some exeptions, can overturn rulings made by the Prince. The Tingvald is the lawmaking assembly, but the Prince and his family have a number of privileges, mainly of financial and personal character. There is a government, as in any modern society, but there is no prime minister, as the Prince is head of state, the prime ministers role carried out by the secretary of the interior. The country is, as you see, no traditional democracy, but neither is it a dictatorship.

The ruling family has a long tradition of beeing well liked and benevolent rulers, much loved by generations of devout followers, which is probably why this archiac rule still exists. The ruling family are very rich with substantial international assets and contributes in a major way to the upkeep of the Midtguardian defence system.

The strategic defence policy is to be able to ensure such high cost and casualty rate to an attacker to make any nation think twice about attackig and thereby rendering the ruling family enough political manouverroom to ensure the continuing existence of the country in face of any realistic threat.

This has proven successful for three hundred years and is firmly adhered to by both the military and the population, the memory of the Norwegian kings treachery still very much alive in the minds of the people.

Thus the "reason d'ettrai" for Midtguardia is in itself of military origin, and the country and its military forces has a long and proud military tradition.

The Midtguardian strategic position has allways been never to start a war, never to give in to threats and allways retaliate to any financial or military attack, but never to escalate hostilities. Even so, when attacked by Norway or Sweden, Midtguardias cavalery would allways pour out on the plains on the other side of the mauntain chain, establishing a "bridgehead" on foreign soil and fight the war from there, giving Midtguardia room to manouver and the ability to take the initiative instead of waiting for the enemys attack behind the high walls of its mountain "keep", a strategem which has proven extremely successful over the years and at times threatened both the Norwegian and the Swedish governments following their attacks on Midtguardia, this probably beeing the real reson behind these countries tacit acceptance of Midtguardian existence.

This is also the background for the existence of a heavy armoured regiment in the closed environments of the Midtguardian geography. In event of an attack these armoured units will spill out of the tunnels and, in theory, rip up enemy defences and threaten their capitols (200 and 600 km away) to such a point that the enemy will seek peace.

I hope this gives you some more background information.

Dag Sverre

 

[Bozoo]

Feanor, current order of battle:

Midtguradian Army:

1st. Armoured brigade

1. sqdr. HQ
2. sqdr, 24 M1 A1 Abrahms, 6 M2 Bradleys, 2 Geapards + support
3. sqdr. same as 2.
4. sqdr. 24 Leopard I A 4, 6 Marders, 2 Gepards
5. sqdr. cadre strength, M1 on shopping list
6. sqdr. Mech inf. 9 M1, 16 M2
7. sqdr. Artillery, 8 M 109AG3, 6 FISTV, + support
8. sqdr. Air def., 12 Gepards
9. sqdr. Combat engineer, 2 Biber bridges, 3 Dachs, 1 Kieler + support
10. Transport, 12 trucks, 12 fuel bowsers
11. Support, ambulances, admin, MP
12. Recce, M551 Sheridan, MeBøBl Choppers

1 st Motorized Brigade.

3 motorized battalions, each with approx 1000 troops on wheels
1 HQ battalion with 105 mm artillery element, Armoured Hummers with TOW

1 divisional HQ
1 artillery BN with 12 M 109 155mm, 12 M 110 203 mm, 6 M 40, 10 LARS
1 air defence BN with 24 Gepards, 12 Chaparral, 6 Roland, mobile radar
1 Engineer Bn, bridging, mine clearing, Dachs, Kielers, M9 ++
(two major civilian engineer firms incorporated in war time)
1. Transport Bn
1. RDF Rapid deployment force 12 M 60 + Marders
1. MP Bn
1 Signals Bn, Eloka, SIGINT, ELINT, Ptarmigan ++

1 Independant Mech infantry Coy M113, M41
1 Independant Recce Coy
1 Field hospital
1 Long Range Action Group

These are the units I remember, but there are a lot more smaller units and units under construction.

AIR Force

See earlier postings.

In addition, one mobile, foreward Helicopter base
and one airbase
+ radar SOC

NAVY

One warf
One caostal fort
2 ex US coastguard cutters
1 LST (navys largest ship)
3 LCUs

Coastal subs main shopping priority

 

[Bozoo]

Shrubage, thanks for the input.

Of coarse, the easiest would be just small, man portable systems. Unfortunately, that takes some of the fun out of it, as these don't really show up in an H0 environment.

Anyway, the Apaches, Phantoms and tanks are there.

Be advised, there are a lot more than 24 tanks. At the moment, my inventory shows a total of 116 MBTs, out of which 63 are M1 Abrahs, and, when my budget allows, another 48 will be aquired, thus deploying the 5th squadron in the armoured brigade, and relegating the Leopard I's of the 4. sqdr. to a newformed divisional armoured reserve.

If you see my posting on Midtguardia Geography and History you will find the reason for the armoured element.

 

[Bozoo]

Ozzie Blizzard

Thanks for your encouraging remarks.

I agree. The F-22 is a phantasy, even though I could aquire these in the H0 scale, although to great cost.

I will consider the F16. The Hawkeyes are of paramount importance as I must ensure a degree of air superiority to ensure that my ground troops do not deteriorate to nothing more then a target rich environment for the enemy. As far as I can see, my best shot woult be the proposed upgrade of my F 4's combined with the E2C Hawkeye. As you can see from the posting on history and geograhpy, Midguardia is not a poor country, quite the opposite. Even so, the USD 300 we must pay for the E2C is as much as for 20 MBTs, so it is not with an easy mind I have ordered the Hawkeyes. I do beleive though, that the Hawkeyes might be a way in to international co-operations to attempt to gain acceptance as a country, which gives the Hawkeye buy a greater political weight.

I dont have any pictures yet, but I can of coarse try to take some from the individual units. I am going to exibit the Midtguardian Defence System at a modelling exibition in october and will have some professional photos taken and will try to get someone to help me post these here, as I am no great computor expert. Unfortunately, Gustavsberg, the capitol, is packed in boxes due to a recent divorce, but I hope to start reconstructing.

Do you agree with Shrubages assesment of the Apache? Should I consentrate on modernizing the Cobra? I would rather not, though, as I use the Cobra to a number of missions, especially as escorts for transport convois and units on the move.

 

[shrubage]

Feanor, current order of battle:

Midtguradian Army:

1st. Armoured brigade

1. sqdr. HQ
2. sqdr, 24 M1 A1 Abrahms, 6 M2 Bradleys, 2 Geapards + support
3. sqdr. same as 2.
4. sqdr. 24 Leopard I A 4, 6 Marders, 2 Gepards
5. sqdr. cadre strength, M1 on shopping list
6. sqdr. Mech inf. 9 M1, 16 M2
7. sqdr. Artillery, 8 M 109AG3, 6 FISTV, + support
8. sqdr. Air def., 12 Gepards
9. sqdr. Combat engineer, 2 Biber bridges, 3 Dachs, 1 Kieler + support
10. Transport, 12 trucks, 12 fuel bowsers
11. Support, ambulances, admin, MP
12. Recce, M551 Sheridan, MeBøBl Choppers

1 st Motorized Brigade.

3 motorized battalions, each with approx 1000 troops on wheels
1 HQ battalion with 105 mm artillery element, Armoured Hummers with TOW

1 divisional HQ
1 artillery BN with 12 M 109 155mm, 12 M 110 203 mm, 6 M 40, 10 LARS
1 air defence BN with 24 Gepards, 12 Chaparral, 6 Roland, mobile radar
1 Engineer Bn, bridging, mine clearing, Dachs, Kielers, M9 ++
(two major civilian engineer firms incorporated in war time)
1. Transport Bn
1. RDF Rapid deployment force 12 M 60 + Marders
1. MP Bn
1 Signals Bn, Eloka, SIGINT, ELINT, Ptarmigan ++

1 Independant Mech infantry Coy M113, M41
1 Independant Recce Coy
1 Field hospital
1 Long Range Action Group

These are the units I remember, but there are a lot more smaller units and units under construction.

AIR Force

See earlier postings.

In addition, one mobile, foreward Helicopter base
and one airbase
+ radar SOC

NAVY

One warf
One caostal fort
2 ex US coastguard cutters
1 LST (navys largest ship)
3 LCUs

Coastal subs main shopping priority

I'm sorry but there's no way a country of the size and population(96 000?) you're describing could support such an armed force.

Also the USA and most other nations, aren't going to sell a country that doesn't have diplomatic recognition the weaponry you're listing.

 

[Bozoo]

rmjmaz1

You mentioned that Midtguardia is located on a coast yet it seems you have limited anti-ship capability. Ground based missile and gun placements on the coast would prevent enemy ships approaching within 50 miles. Very difficult to counter.

That is correct, I have very little antiship capability. The only offencive capability I have is to load the LST with four MBTs, steam out and use the MBT's as shipboard artillery. I'd probably be blown out of the water befor coming within striking distance of anything more trhreatening than a cruise ship.

The two ex US Coast Guard cutters are of no avail here.

As you can se, the coastline is dotted with small islands and there is only one singel shiplane approach, which I would mine in case of hostilities. I am also testing the MLRS which does have som antiship ability. Other than that I have an obsolete coastal fortress featuring WWII era 155mm guns, lethal enough if the hit anything, but the fortress is immobile and not sufficiantly protected. It has no real value today.

I do, however, plan to build a couple of German Type 209 coastal attack subs, which could hide in the currents surrounding the archipelagos protecting the coastline, enveloped in the layered waters provided by the Auli river estuary, boats that probably would provide for a useful deterrent against landings. The subs must be handbuilt by me.

If I follow Ozzies advice and buy F 16s, I could also mount Harpoon anti ship missiles. Ideally, a combination of heavy, long range artillery, MTBs, Harpoon equipped fighters, subs and man potable missile teams deployed on the small islands would be what I would need, but we are a long way from that as other needs take precedence

 

[Bozoo]

I'm sorry but there's no way a country of the size and population(96 000?) you're describing could support such an armed force.

I beg to differ. In 1988 Norway could field a defence organization of 402.000 out of a population of 4 million, that is 10%. (The encyclopedia of world military weapons, Cresent books 1988) The Midtguardian Defence System needs aprox. 16.000 out of a population of 100.000, 16%. I venture that Midtguardias origins, militaristic inclination and obviuos need of a strong military presence makes the increase up to 16% feasable.

We are not talking a professional army, but an organization based on 4.500 professionals and the rest reservists serving eight weekends a year, a service not exceeding that of the Israelis.

Extremely well funded as Midtguardia is due to its extensive international shipping operations, industrial ownership and oil, it will not have the usual problems of a tight defence budget.

As far as I can see, maintaining a defence system as mentioned in my earlier posting is by no means impossible, even if it is a bit drastic in this time and day.