Ivan Otterstrom
New Member
Which "old battleships" did Admiral Oldendorff command off Saipan 1944? Where did they come from? What happened to them later? How old where they in fact?
Marianas 1944
- Thread starter Ivan Otterstrom
- Start date
If you are referring to the Battle of Leyte Gulf and Surigao Strait, there is some information on the Allied fleet composition here:
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Surigao_Strait_.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Surigao_Strait_.htm
In the Leyte operation (notably the battle of Surigao Strait), Rear admiral Jesse B. Oldendorf's Fire Support Group consisted of 6 old battleships (mostly veterans of the Pearl Harbor attack), 4 heavy cruisers (CA), 4 light cruisers (CL) and 28 destoyers (DD). (Some sources say only 21 destroyers)
Battleships: Mississippi,California,Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia
Destroyer Division "X-Ray" (Commander Hubbard): Claxton, Cony, Thorn, Aulick, Sigourney, Welles
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Left Flank (Rear Admiral Oldendorf in Louisville)
Heavy Cruisers: Louisville, Portland, Minneapolis
Light Cruisers: Denver, Columbia
Nine destroyers organised in three sections, as follows -
Section 1 (Destroyer Division 111 - Captain Smoot) Newcomb, Richard P. Leary, Albert W. Grant
Section 2 (Destroyer Division 112 - Captain Conley) Robinson, Halford, Bryant
Section 3 (Commander Boulware) Heywood L. Edwards, Bennion, Leutze
(Destroyer Divisions 111 and 112 were the two divisions of Destroyer Squadron 56 commanded by Captain Smoot)
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Right Flank (Rear Admiral Berkey in Phoenix)
Heavy Cruiser: Shropshire (Australian Navy)
Light Cruisers: Phoenix, Boise
Thirteen destroyers organised as follows -
Destroyer Squadron 24 (Captain McManes)
Hutchins, Daly, Bache, Arunta (Australian Navy), Killen, Beale
Picket Patrol - Destroyer Squadron 54 (Captain Coward) -
Destroyer Division 107 (Captain Coward) Remey, McGowan, Melvin, Mertz
Destroyer Division 108 (Commander Phillips) Mcdermut, Monssen, McNair
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Oldendorf.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Surigao_Strait_.htm
I think the same group of 6 old BBs were later employed again under Oldendorf's command during the January 9, 1945 assault on Luzon (Philippine Islands), north of Manila inside Lingayen Gulf. Hits by kamikazes during this action include: Battleships New Mexico, California, Mississippi, heavy cruiser Louisville (2x), 3 destroyers.
@Highsea: Used "Triumph in the Pacific: the navy's struggle against japan" by E.B. Potter and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz (1963) as initial matierial then googled and ended up with same source as you ;-)
Battle Line (Rear Admiral Weyler in Mississippi)
Battleships: Mississippi,California,Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia
Destroyer Division "X-Ray" (Commander Hubbard): Claxton, Cony, Thorn, Aulick, Sigourney, Welles
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Left Flank (Rear Admiral Oldendorf in Louisville)
Heavy Cruisers: Louisville, Portland, Minneapolis
Light Cruisers: Denver, Columbia
Nine destroyers organised in three sections, as follows -
Section 1 (Destroyer Division 111 - Captain Smoot) Newcomb, Richard P. Leary, Albert W. Grant
Section 2 (Destroyer Division 112 - Captain Conley) Robinson, Halford, Bryant
Section 3 (Commander Boulware) Heywood L. Edwards, Bennion, Leutze
(Destroyer Divisions 111 and 112 were the two divisions of Destroyer Squadron 56 commanded by Captain Smoot)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right Flank (Rear Admiral Berkey in Phoenix)
Heavy Cruiser: Shropshire (Australian Navy)
Light Cruisers: Phoenix, Boise
Thirteen destroyers organised as follows -
Destroyer Squadron 24 (Captain McManes)
Hutchins, Daly, Bache, Arunta (Australian Navy), Killen, Beale
Picket Patrol - Destroyer Squadron 54 (Captain Coward) -
Destroyer Division 107 (Captain Coward) Remey, McGowan, Melvin, Mertz
Destroyer Division 108 (Commander Phillips) Mcdermut, Monssen, McNair
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Oldendorf.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/LEYTE_GULF_Surigao_Strait_.htm
I think the same group of 6 old BBs were later employed again under Oldendorf's command during the January 9, 1945 assault on Luzon (Philippine Islands), north of Manila inside Lingayen Gulf. Hits by kamikazes during this action include: Battleships New Mexico, California, Mississippi, heavy cruiser Louisville (2x), 3 destroyers.
@Highsea: Used "Triumph in the Pacific: the navy's struggle against japan" by E.B. Potter and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz (1963) as initial matierial then googled and ended up with same source as you ;-)
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IIRC. Alabama, Iowa, Massachusetts, Indiana, Sth Dakota and Washington.highsea said:
can't remember the 7th. if you manage to find an ORBAT of TF-58 you'll get a more accurate list though.
Fifth Fleet/Marianas 1944
June 6: Task Fore 58 under Admiral Spruance (on Indianapolis) and Vice Admiral Mitscher (on Lexington) leaves Majuro in the Marshall Islands and heads northwest
June 11: Mitscher hurles his carrier air group agains the southern Marianas
June 13: Mitscher detaches 7 BBs under Vice Admiral Lee to bombard Saipan/Tinian. Task Group 58.7 comprises: Indiana, Washington, North Carolina, Iowa, New Jersey, South Dakota, Alabama.
June 14: Mitscher detaches 2 carrier task groups north under Rear Admiral Joseph J. Clark to attack Iwo and Chichi Jima airfields. The other 2 carrier groups steam around to the west of the island chain to support the invasion of Saipan. The old battleships and other firesupport vessel of the amphibious force relieve Lee's battleships of Saipan.
(from the books I mentioned earlier)
also see: http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/aa.htm
Northern Attack Force (also known as Task Force 52 and under the command of Turner): Vice Adm. R. K. Turner allotted TF 52.3 to soften up the island of Saipan before the assault (8 battleships, definitely including
Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Maryland, California, New Mexico, Colorado)
(see individual BBs: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/)
June 6: Task Fore 58 under Admiral Spruance (on Indianapolis) and Vice Admiral Mitscher (on Lexington) leaves Majuro in the Marshall Islands and heads northwest
June 11: Mitscher hurles his carrier air group agains the southern Marianas
June 13: Mitscher detaches 7 BBs under Vice Admiral Lee to bombard Saipan/Tinian. Task Group 58.7 comprises: Indiana, Washington, North Carolina, Iowa, New Jersey, South Dakota, Alabama.
June 14: Mitscher detaches 2 carrier task groups north under Rear Admiral Joseph J. Clark to attack Iwo and Chichi Jima airfields. The other 2 carrier groups steam around to the west of the island chain to support the invasion of Saipan. The old battleships and other firesupport vessel of the amphibious force relieve Lee's battleships of Saipan.
(from the books I mentioned earlier)
also see: http://www.angelfire.com/fm/odyssey/aa.htm
Northern Attack Force (also known as Task Force 52 and under the command of Turner): Vice Adm. R. K. Turner allotted TF 52.3 to soften up the island of Saipan before the assault (8 battleships, definitely including
Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Maryland, California, New Mexico, Colorado)
(see individual BBs: http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/)
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Ivan Otterstrom
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #7
THANKS. This is surely a speedy way of getting specific information.
Thanks for an excellent response. Were these the same one's in the Gun & Fire Support group for the Guam and Saipan invasion force? Were they retained right up to Okinawa?
Amazing information of the 'net. Again Thanks to all. Sitting in South Africa, I may not have access to all books, but the links are excellent.
Again thanks.
Ivan Otterstrom
Thanks for an excellent response. Were these the same one's in the Gun & Fire Support group for the Guam and Saipan invasion force? Were they retained right up to Okinawa?
Amazing information of the 'net. Again Thanks to all. Sitting in South Africa, I may not have access to all books, but the links are excellent.
Again thanks.
Ivan Otterstrom
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes and no.Ivan Otterstrom said:
Yes, they tend to be the same group of old battleships that are used to support various landings (Oldendorf's Bombardment and Fire Support group).
No, because ships revolve in and out of that group e.g. for repairs (some received kamikaze hits, others were involved in collisions) or R&R, or to serve as training ships. So the composition of the group at these various landings differs slightly.
Really, you should visit www.hazegray.org and look up individual ship histories in DANFS.
Ivan Otterstrom
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #9
Dear all,
I used the link to "angelfire.com". Excellent stuff.
However, I could imagine that there must be more historic articles located on this page. Where do I get this type of concise information pertaining to 1) Iwo Jima 2) Tarawa?
Yours,
I used the link to "angelfire.com". Excellent stuff.
However, I could imagine that there must be more historic articles located on this page. Where do I get this type of concise information pertaining to 1) Iwo Jima 2) Tarawa?
Yours,