Crusader2000
Banned Member
Considering the rapid growth of the PLAAF. What mix of fighters should the JASDF field to counter future threats?
JASDF Mix?
- Thread starter Crusader2000
- Start date
Medium-to-long term: The F-35, no doubt.
That leaves the short term gap that needs to be filled urgently.
Some possible options:
1. Get some Typhoons
2. Produce more F-15J
3. Produce more F-2s
Given the high price of the F-2 compared to the capability of that a/c my guess would be that they would go for either option 1 or 2. Japanese Eurofighters sounds intriguing, however (perhaps as a corollary to Murphy's law?) boring things normally happen. So my bet would be on some more F-15s as a stop-gap, and after that it's F-35 all the way.
I don't believe in Rafale for Japan. Too expensive and what would be the benefits ? Independence from the US?
Last edited:
Why have diffirent paltforms when perfect mulirole platforms are and will be available?
Cost. Not even the financially strongest nation on the planet (USA) exchanges all its aircraft in one go because it costs too much. So a mix for the JASDF would include F-15J and F-2 no matter what. I would recommend upgrading the current F-15Js with AESA radar, CFTs and other things to bring them to the same standard as the F-15Ks. Get a second production batch of F-2s, while these are 4th gen aircraft "only", they are surely good against older chinese aircraft like J-7, and will be a lethal anti-shipping option against naval targets.
Something must be done to counter the J-10, J-11 and J-XX, and it should be a high-end solution. Ideal would be a F-22J. But that seems to be a no-go. Second-best option currently is the Typhoon, whilst a F-3 (Based on the ShinShin) is a more long-term (and more expensive) solution.
Something must be done to counter the J-10, J-11 and J-XX, and it should be a high-end solution. Ideal would be a F-22J. But that seems to be a no-go. Second-best option currently is the Typhoon, whilst a F-3 (Based on the ShinShin) is a more long-term (and more expensive) solution.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
A very similar conversation was had on this topic not long ago, the thread has an identical name to this one and can be found further down the page (its locked now).
In my opinion, buying more F15's is not a solution, better to buy a newer platform such as the Typhoon that is available quickly and still has a lot of room left in the airframe and avionics for further development, unlike the F-16's and F-15's which have been constantly refined and developed further over the last 30 or so years.
In my opinion, buying more F15's is not a solution, better to buy a newer platform such as the Typhoon that is available quickly and still has a lot of room left in the airframe and avionics for further development, unlike the F-16's and F-15's which have been constantly refined and developed further over the last 30 or so years.
I disagree; Japan should go for the F-35. However this means they would need a stop-gap. To me the question then becomes; what would be the cheapest and simplest stop-gap? The Typhoon while an excellent a/c sounds more like a permanent solution than a stop-gap. Japan already operates F-15 so to me it seems more logical to buy some more of them and switch to the F-35 once it's available.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
The cheapest and simplest stop-gap for Japan. Would be just to purchase more F-2's that are still coming down the production line...........
Perhaps, perhaps not. I notice that Japan has decided to reduce the number of F-2s and I assume there is a good reason for that. It seems they are not quite happy with the a/c, some claim it's the poor performance/cost ratio... If it's roughly as expensive as the F-15 why not buy some more F-15s while waiting for the F-35?The cheapest and simplest stop-gap for Japan. Would be just to purchase more F-2's that are still coming down the production line...........
Also, did they integrate some decent a2a weapons into the F-2?
Why do you keep repeating yourself?The cheapest and simplest stop-gap for Japan. Would be just to purchase more F-2's that are still coming down the production line...........
BTW, that should be one sentence. There should be no full stop after "Japan", & the "W" in "Would" should be lower-case.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Typhoons for air-intercept to fill the more immediate gaps
F-35s for multi-role for the longer term
Simples.
F-35s for multi-role for the longer term
Simples.
battlensign
New Member
Caveat Emptor? No, Caveat Brits bearing surplus tranche 3 Typhoons!
The answer in the interim is the F-15SE, the F-35 in the medium and an indigenous 5th gen fighter in the long term.
Brett.
What about F-15 silent eagle. Japan already have the infrastructure to support F-15J, add another F-15 variant should be cheep. It would also give Japan credible air deterrence against DPRK as well. I am not sure with F-2's range, they can perform bombing sorties against DPRK.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
We wouldn't sell Japan surplus Typhoons, unless it was a small initial number to get them going, as part of the deal is enabling Japan to build them itself, giving them tech transfer and having possible upgrades over what is already part of Tranche 3.
It hasn't been produced yet and the cost is uncertain - how can you say it would be cheap? Probably more expensive than a Typhoon given there's an order book of zero so far.
Any surplus Typhoons will be Tranche 1, not Tranche 3, & not available until T3 is being taken into service.Caveat Emptor? No, Caveat Brits bearing surplus tranche 3 Typhoons!
The answer in the interim is the F-15SE, the F-35 in the medium and an indigenous 5th gen fighter in the long term.
Brett.
F-15SE is a mock-up so far. Neither low-risk nor quick, I'd say.
battlensign
New Member
1) Really? How was the Saudi deal done?
2) F-15SE variant couldn't be that difficult...........not re-inventing the wheel.
Brett.
Diversion of 24 T2 production slots, to be made up later. The "made up later" bit has since been reneged on, though not quite explicitly: those 24 aircraft have been ordered as part of T3A. But I don't reckon we can repeat that. The Tornado F3s will be long gone when the first T3 arrives. Also, the economic environment is likely to have changed. The replacement of the 24 lost T2 was reneged on this year, in the depths of the current economic crisis.
Right now, the RAF is struggling to meet training & service commitments with its Typhoon fleet, due to not having enough aircraft.
No, The F-15SE isn't re-inventing the wheel. But it is a significant modification, & so far only exists as a mock-up. The alternatives are in full-rate production, & have been in service for some time. Which is higher risk, & which will take longer to deliver?
Right now, the RAF is struggling to meet training & service commitments with its Typhoon fleet, due to not having enough aircraft.
No, The F-15SE isn't re-inventing the wheel. But it is a significant modification, & so far only exists as a mock-up. The alternatives are in full-rate production, & have been in service for some time. Which is higher risk, & which will take longer to deliver?
I think in general, procurement cost is a lot less than the operating cost for an AC. So it is very likely that introduce a F-15 variant would be cheaper than a completely new AC.
Also, I am not sure Japan would be satisfied with just buying a boat load of AC, they had always wanted to be able to assemble the AC with largely indigenous parts. They already have an assembly line in place along with the sub-contractors for F-15J, building F-15SE in Japan probably would end up cheaper. Even if it end up being more expensive, the money would still end up supporting domestic air industry.