JAS 39 Gripen

Libyan

New Member
Umm hate to break it to pakistan , but the UNITED STATES controls the engine, and the aim-120 you will not be getting the gripen



You cant afford it, and to the americans such technology is not for you since you sent the f-16s to china.


the saab engine is made up off a ge 404 engine liscence built

Pakistan is on the american short list of nations which while friendly are NOT to be given the latest generation weaponry such as the aim-120

Egypt was given the Aim-120 however its in a ground support role.


and Egypt is an arab state whos f-16s work quite well without massive american support, after all egypt has a deal with pakistan to do all the repairs and refurbishment for YOUR f-16s.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
the saab engine is made up off a ge 404 engine liscence built
my understanding is that the engine is not subjected to the embargo as it's a commercially modified engine, not the full milspec engine.

OTOH, it may also be why the Pakistani AF is looking at re-engines with French jets.

I'd be tempted to wait for some official announcements in case what is being ordered are Grips with French engines. (which is something that was discussed a few months ago)
 

Revival_786

New Member
srirangan - "Libyan has a point/ And its not possible for Pakistan to afford both the Griens and the 150 JF-17's"

Ok... I cannot even begin to describe the ignorance in that line... but I'll withold. :mad
Pakistan can buy both of these AC's because they have been preallocated in the budget.
 

ullu

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
this thread was meant for PICTURES. :roll discussions in military aviation?
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Pakistan can buy both of these AC's because they have been preallocated in the budget.
Oh is that so? The european birds are waay too expensive and frankly I will be surprised if this deal goes ahead. But if it does then the number of JF17's will surely not be 150, but much less.
 

Revival_786

New Member
150 JF-17's and 40 (speculative) Gripens if the deal goes ahead. We are buying only 40 Gripens anyway... we can afford that. 150 JF-17's is not a lot since they are very cheap.
 

adsH

New Member
PAF was given 2.5 billion dollar last year for foreign aquasition 28 of these Gripesn caosted 1.5 billion dollar last i read about they sold these jets i can't rember which country there are very few, well you do the math how much thet jets would cost this price tag was with Lgistical cost included, the ge F-404-400 engine is licenced built by Volvo in swede about 60 percent, and it is commercially available to any one they wan't to sell, Swedes have a more rigid policy of selling something that gives the Americans confidence on there well thought through decision. but an authorization is still required 60 percent of the engines is made in the US But i think PAF is considering
the french SNECMA M53-P20 which is teh Mirage 2005 engine. its is doable the Sweds have built a beautifulll and a very flexibal Platform.

the Avionics have been modified too BAE is now providing input as a partner instead of american firms

Any of you That are haveing a stroke on PAF purchases Read this extract taken from a crediable Source

Power plant Details

Built by Volvo Aero, under license from General Electric, and designated RM12, is an improved version of the F404-400 turbofan, used on the F-18, and has a dry thrust of 12,150 lbst and 17,800 with afterburner. With this power, the Grippen can achieve supersonic speed at any altitude, in spite of having fixed geometry air intakes. This engine can be acelerated from idle to full reheat in only three seconds. Sixty percent of the powerplant is made on the USA and the remainder on Sweden. Since the export of this engine is subjected to american authorization, Saab has studied versions of the Grippen powered by alternative engines: the Snecma M88-3 used on the Rafale and the Eurojet Ej200 used on the Eurofighter 2000. Volvo says that the fitting of these powerplants would only need small changes on the geometry of the air intakes, but certainly it would need time to make a proper development.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
In relation to the AIM-120 Amraam missile. No, PAF will probably not be allowed to purchase this missile, unless relations btw Pakistan and USA improve dramatically or relations between India and USA decrease dramatically. PAF have other options though. South Africa has acquired Gripens and will be equipping them with their own indigenous BVR missile, the Darter. PAF "may" be able to acquire that, which if it's a capable missile (and given South Africa's track record I can't see any reason it wouldn't be) would fit onto PAF Gripens VERY easily, and provide PAF with a quick and capable BVR capability. Alternatively the European "Meteor" or French MICA BVR missiles could be available to PAF. The Meteor will actually be far more capable than current generation AMRAAM's and look likely to be the most capable BVR missile in the World unless later AMRAAM missiles are upgraded significantly. As I stated in another forum, a Gripen armed with Meteor BVR missiles and IRIS-T WVR missiles would be a very formidable air combat capability indeed.
 

adsH

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
In relation to the AIM-120 Amraam missile. No, PAF will probably not be allowed to purchase this missile, unless relations btw Pakistan and USA improve dramatically or relations between India and USA decrease dramatically. PAF have other options though. South Africa has acquired Gripens and will be equipping them with their own indigenous BVR missile, the Darter. PAF "may" be able to acquire that, which if it's a capable missile (and given South Africa's track record I can't see any reason it wouldn't be) would fit onto PAF Gripens VERY easily, and provide PAF with a quick and capable BVR capability. Alternatively the European "Meteor" or French MICA BVR missiles could be available to PAF. The Meteor will actually be far more capable than current generation AMRAAM's and look likely to be the most capable BVR missile in the World unless later AMRAAM missiles are upgraded significantly. As I stated in another forum, a Gripen armed with Meteor BVR missiles and IRIS-T WVR missiles would be a very formidable air combat capability indeed.
i think PAF has SD-10 in the works it needs to be tested and tweaked but it has i think gone through the initial Design stages. so in the Short term they need a good BVR missile but in the long run PAF will have it own.
 

adsH

New Member
aussieD the problem is that French would only sell Meteor and Mica if PAF buys platforms form them!! seams unlikely. there is another alternative if PAF orders refulers and Awac platforms for there AF the french may be compelled to provide a Local assembly ie TOT for the Mica or/and the Meteor. but this would cost abit. the french don't love Pakistnais they only want loyal customers that can feed money into there defense industry. in the AFM PAF ACM specified Mica and Meteor as the armaments for the JF-17, but there was no mention of the SD-10. they wouldn't list those missiles on the AFM unless they have integrated the missiles on the JF-17, and since the JF-17 has almost similar Avionics that the French Mirage 3 and V (ROSE 3 standard with large powerful radar and the IRTS) have, its no suprize.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
yasin_khan said:
we have not given f-16s to china.they came here and checked it.
It might pay to read some of the many threads in here that have this issue as part of the discussion. Even the most patriotic of posters in here acknowledge that an F-16 was gifted to the Chinese for tech assessment. A number of intel and military sources including Janes, Bakers, Air International, Air Combat etc have reinforced this - some of the chinese sites openly brag about gaining access to a Pakistani F-16 as part of the F-16/Lavi tech vacuuming process.
 

adsH

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
yasin_khan said:
we have not given f-16s to china.they came here and checked it.
It might pay to read some of the many threads in here that have this issue as part of the discussion. Even the most patriotic of posters in here acknowledge that an F-16 was gifted to the Chinese for tech assessment. A number of intel and military sources including Janes, Bakers, Air International, Air Combat etc have reinforced this - some of the chinese sites openly brag about gaining access to a Pakistani F-16 as part of the F-16/Lavi tech vacuuming process.
i doubt they took one away, i think they may have worked along side Pak karma engineers to carry out repairs and in exchange Chinese may have received Intel about the structure and systems of the AC. and PAF may have gained technology to successfully over haul the AC and produce replica spare parts.
 
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