J-10 of PLA

[bjskyhorse]

J-10 is one of the most important projects of PLA,and it is regarded as the most advanced fighter of them. It is said it is super to the Su-27 of PLA.As a new fighter,the Chinese said it is much better than F-2 of Japan and LCA of India, may be the same level of EF2000 and Rafale。Then what is the truth?
It is said a update version of J10 will be used to flight with F-22. Is it possible? if compare with F-35,can J-10 win?

 

[webmaster]

Interesting!

Chinese said it is much better than F-2 of Japan and LCA of India,

Where did they say that? Source? Publication? When?

may be the same level of EF2000 and Rafale

How so? On what grounds are you saying that J-10 is same level as Eurofighter and Rafale? What makes you think it is same level?

If you make a claim, SOURCE it. If you make an assumption, back it up with technical data otherwise the post looks like mine is bigger than yours and it eventually gets locked.

 

[usmanz]

I want to inform my chinese friend that while J-10 is an advanced and a very capable aircraft, but it is in no way a match for F-22 and F-35. :unknown They are fifth generation aircraft while J-10 is fourth generation. But in large numbers, they will still be very effective for chinese defence.

 

[rjmaz1]

It is said a update version of J10 will be used to flight with F-22. Is it possible? if compare with F-35,can J-10 win?

If the US aircraft runs out of missile after they have shot down 50 J10's then the chinesse may score a kill against a defenceless US aircraft.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

With proper support from mainland China's air defence network, I would say it's not entirely impossible for J-10 to put up some resistance. When we talk about this vs that, we must consider that it's not the individual weapon that determines the outcome but rather one entire system pitched against another.

Of course, I'm only speculating at this point as there is little official information regarding the plane.

J-10 is one of the most important projects of PLA,and it is regarded as the most advanced fighter of them. It is said it is super to the Su-27 of PLA.As a new fighter,the Chinese said it is much better than F-2 of Japan and LCA of India, may be the same level of EF2000 and Rafale。Then what is the truth?
It is said a update version of J10 will be used to flight with F-22. Is it possible? if compare with F-35,can J-10 win?

The upgrade program is rumoured to be a temporary answer since their 5th generation fighter program ran into some difficulties. At least that's the word floating around Chinese internet these days.

 

[bjskyhorse]

It is said that J-1o will develped into a kind of heavy fighter called J-13,wich is used to fight with F-22.What do u think the technology level of J-10,the same with F2000 and Rafale?

 

[Pathfinder-X]

It is said that J-1o will develped into a kind of heavy fighter called J-13,wich is used to fight with F-22.What do u think the technology level of J-10,the same with F2000 and Rafale?

No I think the two programs are seperate. I have my doubts over those internet rumours that J-10 would be modified into a twin engine aircraft and "compete with F-22". With a modification of that scale, you might as well build a new one from scratch.

The plane is a major breakthrough compared to previous planes China designed and assembled. With that said, I think it's a little too optimistic to expect them to be on par with Europe. I, for one, don't believe in miracles.

 

[wp2000]

Guys, Yes few chinese teenagers wished J10 could compete against Eurocanards (And sorry, even the dumbest teenagers wouldn't dream about J10 against F22).

But majority of the chinese posters know where earth is.

So, bjskyhorse, you made the claim, you need to answer all the questions.

 

[falconlover81]

J-10 is one of the most important projects of PLA,and it is regarded as the most advanced fighter of them. It is said it is super to the Su-27 of PLA.As a new fighter,the Chinese said it is much better than F-2 of Japan and LCA of India, may be the same level of EF2000 and Rafale。Then what is the truth?
It is said a update version of J10 will be used to flight with F-22. Is it possible? if compare with F-35,can J-10 win?

guys lets just clear up a few points here.first of all it should be acknowledged that the j-10 is the greatest achievement of the plaaf so far right now as far as it being compared to the su-27 it should be kept in mind that during aerial exercises within the plaaf it was noted that the j-10 was more maneuverable than the flanker and outclassed it everytime in wvr dogfights(source:tphuang)
but i cant verify the second point though that it is better than f-2 and lca must be this guy's assumption although shape wise it resembles the typhoon and the rafale avionics wise not sure because most of the things about j-10 are still kinda classified
the next point is about the updated version of the j-10 now as far as this is concerned it was reported sometime back in janes that a twin engine j-10 was in the works and called as super-10 capabilities just like i said before classified so basically u cant compare a fighter that is still in development with a fighter like f-22 and f-35 its plain stupidity
one last point for my dear friend usman i would like to qoute the great muhammad ali "ur hands cant hit what ur eyes cant see"
man how in the hell are u going to down a plane that u basically cant see
my 2 cents

Mod Edit: Path: Please use capitalization and proper spelling where it is needed next time.

 

[LancerMc]

bjskyhorse

If the PLAAF wants to compare the J-10 to the Eurofighter, F-22, F-35, and
F-2 they should release more information about it. While again the J-10 is a great achievement for the aviation industry in China, it still way behind a lot of the aircraft that being produced today. Unfortunately the J-10 is underpowered for an aircraft of its size. It's powered by a Chinse version of the old British Spey engine. Chinese manufacturers did not have access to high strength composites like their Western counterparts. This has made the J-10 a heavier aircraft. With it being overweight and under powered for its size, you do the math.

The J-10 was developed on the ideas of the IAF's Lavi, a aircraft similar to the F-16. The Eurofighter, F-22, and F-35 are all next generation aircraft. Though they are being made at the same time, that doesn't mean their in the same capability generation.

Could China produce a fighter like the F-22; Yes, but only in looks and agility. China doesn't have the current ability to produce the levels of stealth technology, radar, and communications that make the F-22 so great.

I am sure the PLAAF and other armed services say how great all their military technology is over their western counterparts. Don't believe all the propaganda, you have access to web to find out the real facts.

 

[Stimpy75]

bjskyhorse

If the PLAAF wants to compare the J-10 to the Eurofighter, F-22, F-35, and
F-2 they should release more information about it. While again the J-10 is a great achievement for the aviation industry in China, it still way behind a lot of the aircraft that being produced today. Unfortunately the J-10 is underpowered for an aircraft of its size. It's powered by a Chinse version of the old British Spey engine. Chinese manufacturers did not have access to high strength composites like their Western counterparts. This has made the J-10 a heavier aircraft. With it being overweight and under powered for its size, you do the math.

.

sry,but i think you mixed up here something.The JH-7 is powered by two sprey alike engines,the J-10 itself is powered by an AL-31 of the SU-27 and it´s really not underpowered in that case.The WS-10,a chinese version of the AL-31 power, which is currently under tests will be used for future J-10.

 

[LancerMc]

Stimpy thanks for the correction on the engine type. Though many aeronautical analysts still believe the J-10 is underpowered and overweight for an aircraft of its size.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Without substantial information about this plane, it is very problematic to draw conclusions out of pure speculation.

Few things we can confirm ATM:

- First flew in 1998 and entered service in 2004
- Currently powered by a modified Azadi
- Type 634 quadruple fly-by-wire
- ARW9101 RWR
- Ordered 100 units of Azadi in 2004

By the way, I noticed some of you are having some attitude problems. Keep in mind many members are new to this forum and are bound to have some questions which you might consider unworthy of your time, but keep that to yourselves. I will not hesitate to remove any offensive comments.

 

[tphuang]

Stimpy thanks for the correction on the engine type. Though many aeronautical analysts still believe the J-10 is underpowered and overweight for an aircraft of its size.

I have no idea who those analysts are, but I have always been under the impression that J-10's T/W ratio is pretty good. With AL-31FN-M1 (I believe the recent bunch of AL-31FN at least have uprated thrust if not TVC), you have 13.2 tonne of wet thrust and the empty weight of the plane is probably 8 tonne using my previous estimation compared with the empty weight of other plaaf planes and F-16/Lavi/Eurocanards.

 

[y_raj]

the twin engined variant cant be compared to f-22 because it will lack structural stealth [ or you need to change the design completely. what will the RE then].
maybe it matches EF_typhoon [ certainly modifications will help it acheive that].

but at the present it is an equal to the LCA tejas.

 

[tphuang]

the twin engined variant cant be compared to f-22 because it will lack structural stealth [ or you need to change the design completely. what will the RE then].
maybe it matches EF_typhoon [ certainly modifications will help it acheive that].

but at the present it is an equal to the LCA tejas.

you are comparing a fighter that's already equipped with many regiments to a fighter that's only on its 5th prototype.

 

[crobato]

Stimpy thanks for the correction on the engine type. Though many aeronautical analysts still believe the J-10 is underpowered and overweight for an aircraft of its size.

What analyst? The idea that the J-10 was underpowered came because some website posted that its 'empty' weight is 9750kg, a figure which I might add cannot be verified. But then everyone seems to have passed it along as it is 'fact'. The problem of the Chinese industry is that they tend to quote figures based on a context that is not the same as the way such figures is quoted on the West.

For example, the claim that the J-8II has a maximum G limit of 6.9G. In fact, the figure is taken out of context, it should be 6.9G on a 1km turn circle. No way that represents the plane's maximum G; the J-8II is structurally loaded up to 8G. Turn smaller and you would get a higher G.

Another is the claim that the JH-7A only handles 6.5 tons of payload. That's another figure taken out of context, since the real context is 6.5 tons on a combat radius of 1825km. If the JH-7A is working from a combat radius much lower than that, the payload would be considerably higher.

9750kg is probably the plane with internal fuel and pilot but no payload. Keep in mind that the J-8II, a plane of a previous generation, has a larger wingspan and considerably longer length, weighs between 9200 to 10,000kg empty. The FC-1, a fighter from the same factory, reflecting the same construction methods and technology, and is actually about the same length, is about 6400kg empty. Tne weight difference between the RD-93 and the AL-31FN is roughly 500kg.

From Chinese language articles and reports, it has been said that the J-10 in combat condition-internal fuel, some AAMs, gun ammo---has a TWR of 1.1.

 

[LancerMc]

I remember the article printed a few months ago in Combat Aircraft describing the J-10 under powered for an aircraft of its size and type from the information the we know about the aircraft.

I am sure it would make it easier if the PLAAF released some better information about the J-10 to answered all the questions we have about it. It's exact dimension are still a mystery.

 

[crobato]

That's mainly because the article is basing on the wrong weight assumption the 9750kg empty weight which I already explained is most doubtful.

Also the size of the plane is often misleading. You get the impression it is large when actually the canopy is smaller than the F-16's. Please note when you compare size against people and trucks in the background, Asians are not as tall as Western people, and in China, they use a lot of small micro and mini trucks and vans like you see in Japan.

We know from one of the recent pictures, we have an AVIC/CAC marked J-10 on the same runaway with the FC-1. Interposing the pictures, the J-10 is about the same length as the FC-1, and we know from official data, the FC-1 is 14.5 meters. The plane isn't bigger than the FC-1.

One has to consider the J-10's role models, the Israeli Lavi and the F-16A. The countries with F-16s politically close to China, not just Pakistan but even countries like Indonesia, Thailand and Venenzuela, all use F-16As. Both the Lavi and the F-16A have empty weights around 7,000kg.

It would be neat if the PLAAF decides to release information about the J-10. You had a chance of that in the last Zhuhai, but even that was aborted at the last moment, with much chagrin from the factory, who has prepared a J-10 for the occassion (new paint, labels and such) as they are very much interested for potential export orders. The PLAAF also pulled the plug from releasing public information on the WS-10A Taihang engine which was expected to be shown in the airshow complete with specs. It is quite clear that the PLAAF and AVIC, the military industrial complex in charge of most aviation projects, do not see eye to eye.

 

[East]

I think F22 excels J-10 in every aspects, because F22 has been in services while J-10 hasn't been produced largely.