Israel to buy another two German submarines

[turin]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3171565,00.html

German government approves discounted sale of two Dolphin class submarines to Israel at cost of USD 1.17 billion; Berlin to fund a third of the cost; According to German daily Der Spiegel, Berlin was hesitant to about selling submarines over fears that Israel could arms Dolphins with nuclear heads and threaten stability in Middle East.
Outgoing Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder approved the discounted sale of two German-made submarines to Israel, moments before sealing his term in office, the German daily Der Spiegel reported Saturday. Reuters

The newspaper reported that the two submarines of the Dolphin class will be built in Kiel at a cost of USD 1.17 billion.
The German federal government, which is being replaced on Thursday by a new coalition headed by Angela Merkel, will cover a third of the cost.

Germany granted Israel two Dolphin submarines in the nineties soon after the Gulf War in a sign of goodwill and in order to strengthen the friendly ties between the two countries. Israel bought a third submarine of the same brand soon after the donation.
Schroeder’s Social Democrat-Greens government had long been hesitant about selling more submarines, according to German media reports,
over fears Israel could arm the Dolphins with nuclear weapons and threaten Middle East stability.

But according to Israeli security sources, the dispute was over whether Germany should charge the full price. Der Spiegel and Focus magazine said on Saturday that Germany had indeed long resisted Israel’s request to help finance the cost of the submarines.

The deal is the second of its kind struck by Schroeder’s government over the last two months. Tow weeks ago a multi-million dollar arms sale deal was agreed upon with Turkey.

German media is making quite a big fuss about this. However most serious observers note that the deal is as good for our own defence industry, esp. HDW, as it is for the Israelis. Currently there still exists no final decision about the further procurement of another two german 212A submarines, so I guess, HDW could need the orders. Of course its sad to see 330 million Euros going somewhere else instead of being added to the german defence budget.
It is not known as of yet, wether these new Dolphin subs will receive AIP similar to 212A, although that certainly may be desired by Israel.

 

[aaaditya]

will these dolphin submarines be modified to carry the turbo popeye missiles by israel?
these seem to be pretty good design ,though i cant understand the difference between the 212a and the 214.

 

[turin]

Dont know about the Popeye.

Concerning the difference between 212A and 214:

The 212 is basically a whole new design, though of course prior experiences of HDW in sub building greatly influenced the development.
The 214 is an evolution of the classic type 209, see for example the hull and rudders. However this type received most of the technology, that was incorporated into the 212A, plus a newer version of the fuel cell propulsion with bigger cells. The 214 is a bit larger and offers about the same performance, though the boat has greater diving depth due to lack of an amagnetic hull and is not so good at shallow water operations as the 212A (its still very good in this regard though).
The Dolphins are closer related to the 212A than to the 214.

 

[Hussain]

Must be good submarines as they aren't US and also the Israeli's are willing to depart some money for them. I believe that Pakistan is shopping around for some submarines and the Pakistani's have shown interest in German subs. Is there any chance that the Pakistani's are showing interest in the ones the Israeli's are buying?

 

[turin]

Actually Israel didnt buy american subs for the simple reason, that conventional submarines are no longer in production in the US. Thats why Taiwan has so many troubles getting new subs. The US simply cant deliver them at the moment and other countries including Germany hesitated about a decision.

Should the Pakistanis be interested in german subs, then the choice would be either the Type 212A or, more likely, the Type 214. Dolphin class has been developed prior to these two subs and was built specifically to Israeli requirements. It is unlikely that any other country would receive units of this class. Also the Dolphin is in no respect better than the two other types, except maybe in the detail of offering ten tubes, four of these being 650 mm.

 

[Dr Phobus]

I am surprized that the israel is not pursuing an AIP option for the dolphin class. The benefits are obvious and it will enhance the land attack and nuclear strike role I am sure the israeli navy has in mind for it. Both the 212 and 209 both have an ability to be equiped with an AIP system. I think the 209PN which will have an AIP system which is to be built for Portuagal. Thus, I think that the dolphin be equiped with such a system. Any thoughts anyone. :xmas

 

[Patzek]

hermm
yes it was already published in here about 2 weeks ago in the news.

i don't know much about the 3 dolphins we have now
but i can say that i know that we " edited " those three a lottt since they first ported here.
trust us to do it alone with our secrecy :\

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys,does any one know what sonar and combat management systems will these submarines have?
will they be the existing sonar systems and the isus combat management system installed on the hdw type214 or any indigenous system?