Is Pakistan's nuclear programme dying?

Winter

New Member
Is Pakistan's nuclear programme dying?

By Paul Anderson, BBC correspondent in Islamabad

In all the heat generated by Pakistan's leading nuclear scientist, AQ Khan, confessing to nuclear proliferation, relatively little attention has been paid to the future of the country's nuclear weapons programme.

In the 1970s Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto famously declared that Pakistanis would go to any sacrifice to match India's nuclear weapons programme, even if it meant the people being reduced to eating grass.

Now they have a nuclear programme, they are discovering that weapons technology is a dynamic business which requires constant maintenance and upgrading.

That maintenance has been promised by President Pervez Musharraf.

But nuclear specialist and journalist Shahid ur Rehman believes the president will run into difficulties, the seeds of which were sown many years ago.

"Pakistan's programme was based on smuggled, imported technology," he says. "AQ Khan and his friends went shopping all over the world with the connivance of the Pakistani army.

"By contrast, India's programme was not as sophisticated, but it was indigenous. If there are curbs on India they will not suffer."

Shahid ur Rehman argues that it will be impossible for Pakistan to upgrade its nuclear programme legally.

"If Pakistan needs a nuclear component, they will have to approach the international market. They will not sell it, so Pakistan will have to buy it on the black market."

That means, he argues, that: "Pakistan's nuclear programme is now almost half dead. They won't be able to modernise facilities which are becoming obsolete. It is a de facto roll back."

And that is precisely what President Musharraf has promised to avoid.

"We will continue to develop our capability in line with our deterrent needs. I am the last man who will roll back," General Musharraf promised recently.

Inspections debate

So far, there is no obvious pressure on Pakistan to embark on nuclear reduction or a roll back.

But that could come, if or when new revelations about its proliferation history come to light.

The country could also come under pressure to open its facilities for inspection.

"The outside world would be quite justified in asking the Pakistani government for proper assurances," says AH Nayyar, a physicist and nuclear expert from Qaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad.

"They could demand to inspect the log books of all sensitive organisations in Pakistan to make sure every single kilo of highly enriched uranium is taken account of. That could be very intrusive," he says.

But as long as President Musharraf is in power, that is extremely unlikely.

"No to an internal independent inquiry and no to United Nations inspections teams," he said after AQ Khan's dramatic confession last month.

He might have added 'no' to joining the Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT) which has been muted as a possible consequence of the proliferation scandal.

But it has been ruled out by one government official after another.

Pakistan would have to be legally recognised as a nuclear weapons state first, which is unlikely, and India would have to join the NPT at the same time, which is also unlikely.

Double standards?

NPT touches another nerve. There's a widespread belief in Pakistan that it is being singled out for scrutiny while India's weapons programme is overlooked.

Take the recent hi-tech agreement between India and the United States, on cooperation in nuclear power and space technologies.

Samina Ahmed, from the International Crisis Group, believes it is a green light for proliferation.

"Transfers of dual-use technology, nuclear technology and space technology is violating a basic principle of the Non Proliferation Treaty," she says.

"It is dangerous and counterproductive.

"Dangerous because with some of the gaps in India's nuclear weapons programme being filled in with American support, that will encourage India to go ahead with its ambitious nuclear programme.

"And counter-productive because it will lead to other states playing catch-up."

While these argument rage, Pakistan is quietly hoping the whole issue will go away.

Or if it does not, that the focus of attention is turned on what President Musharraf says is the real menace - the European companies which he says form the backbone of the nuclear black market.

So far though, there is little sign of that happening.

Source: BBCNews

:frosty
 

The Watcher

New Member
It seems as if its true but it isn't. pakistan's nukes cannot die out. if they were to die out why were they allowed to be made in the first place? whatever pakistan needs it will get somehow like it did 30 years ago, 20 years ago and 10 years ago with or without black markets help.

this "report" sees things in black and white while ignoring the grey. it does not consider the china factor and what some of the EU countries have done for money and will continue to do "illegal" stuff for money. ;)
 

general

New Member
Pak has always been getting what they wanted illegally so what if they make it illegal were still gonna get it
 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
Pakistan's nuclear program is based on foreign designs and was based upon technology which was acquired on the black market. However now Pakistan is quite self sufficient in nuclear technology and even manufactures such technologically advanced items as centrifuges on it's own. The Pakistani design is known as Pak-2 which is a second generation design.
Some equipment might as well still be imported through black market because of economical concerns but otherwise I think a country which can manufacture it's own centrifuges is quite capable of manufacturing other components on its own as well.

So IMHO Pakistan's nuclear program is here to stay and cannot be rolled back or become obsolete, the sooner the world stops burrying its head in the sand the better.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It's irrelevant as to how Pakistan or India got their technology. The bottom line is that both have it and are unlikely to walk away from it.

It's fundamental to both countries defence ORBAT.
 

general

New Member
shamayel said:
Pakistan's nuclear program is based on foreign designs and was based upon technology which was acquired on the black market. However now Pakistan is quite self sufficient in nuclear technology and even manufactures such technologically advanced items as centrifuges on it's own. The Pakistani design is known as Pak-2 which is a second generation design.
Some equipment might as well still be imported through black market because of economical concerns but otherwise I think a country which can manufacture it's own centrifuges is quite capable of manufacturing other components on its own as well.

So IMHO Pakistan's nuclear program is here to stay and cannot be rolled back or become obsolete, the sooner the world stops burrying its head in the sand the better.
the fundamental tech is there and we can develope our own weapons now maybe the Uranium is still imported.
 

mysterious

New Member
This article is pure B.S by a highly pessimistic person as far as Pakistan is concerned. As said by Shamayel, Pakistan is quite sufficient in everything. From centrifuges to its own ballistic missiles!! Although the article is right about American agreements with India on transfers of Dual technology. I cant see any other reason over here to explain this than; this is a highly complicated conspiracy to try n get rid of Pak's nukes which are the only [Mod edit: Please don't bring religion into everything]
Any way, I can say one thing: "Jissay Allah rakhay ussay kaun chakhhayy!!" :smokingc:
 

Indus

New Member
mysterious said:
Any way, I can say one thing: "Jissay Allah rakhay ussay kaun chakhhayy!!" :smokingc:
Its all a matter of perspective my friend..
"Jisseh Bhagwan rakhay, usseh jeet hogi" ;)


Its true on a personal basis, but sometimes people within a government can screw things up for the rest of a country.. its not the people's fault but the goverment's..
but in the end, no doubt, a person's own actions and deeds are what determine their own ultimate fate.. not what someone else did..
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
:cop :cop :cop :cop :cop

Myst you really need to learn to control yourself. I am losing patience with your inability to temper your comments about the "West". In case you hadn't noticed you are suffering from the ignorance of generalisation which is just as intolerable as those in the "west" who say that all muslims are intent on burning and destroying those not of the faith.

If you cannot control yourself then DON'T type anything
 

Indus

New Member
Theres no doubt that the recent scandal will adversely affect Pakistan's nuclear program.. For one thing, countries that have helped supply Pak w/ constant necessary materials/knowhow, upgrades of facilities will be under more scrutiny from U.S. and IAEA and it will be harder to do so.. The nuclear black market also will be under much closer surveillance and this avenue will become even more difficult to opt for..
Pak's nuclear program will probably at best, stagnate at its current capability level..
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Indus said:
Theres no doubt that the recent scandal will adversely affect Pakistan's nuclear program.. For one thing, countries that have helped supply Pak w/ constant necessary materials/knowhow, upgrades of facilities will be under more scrutiny from U.S. and IAEA and it will be harder to do so.. The nuclear black market also will be under much closer surveillance and this avenue will become even more difficult to opt for..
Pak's nuclear program will probably at best, stagnate at its current capability level..
I don't think Pakistan will be limited in future development at all. Once you demonstrate a degree of capability with nukes, then there is an obvious progression path.

The issue is whether Pakistan will follow this "standard" progression path - thus demonstrating that it does have an internal development cycle in progress.
 

Majin-Vegeta

Banned Member
no way would Pakistan give up its Nuclear program, its whats keeping it from going to war with india..i think..so i dont think they want to lose such power, on top of that..Musharraf has said again and again that it will not shut down its Nuclear weapons program no matter what! :p
 

cheenum

New Member
I agree with Indus's view when he says "Pak's nuclear program will probably at best, stagnate at its current capability level..."
There are multiple reasosn for this
1) Nuclear Weapons are very costly and they need costly upkeep, Delivery, C4i etc...
2) Sources of materials have virtually dried in the open market, Scientific establishment is disenchanted, feels betrayed.
3) Black market will also prove extremely difficult as other nations will outbid Pak when any significant thing comes up for sale and Pak will not be able to keep up the bidding war for components for long.
4) US / EU nations will not be as lenient as they were before, now every Western country fears that Al-Queda could lay its hands on Pk's nuclear weapons.

Correct me if my surmise is wrong.
I know Pak will go to great length to lay its hands on any nuclear component / technology to bolster its nuclear arsenal but it will become progressively difficult Costly and fraught with the danger of getting caught ala Libya.
 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
Pakistan is already a nuclear power and it doesn't rely that much on the blackmarket as it used to do in the days before it overtly went nuclear.
Most, if not all, components are now manufactured within Pakistan.

I agree with Indus's view when he says "Pak's nuclear program will probably at best, stagnate at its current capability level..."
So how does a nuclear program "stagnate"???
Once a country has nuclear capability then it just needs upkeep and maintenance while work goes on on the delivery systems. The program could have "stagnated" if the country did not already have a nuclear capability.
 

The Watcher

New Member
those 50,000 workers in pak atomic agency and some 6000 scientists working all these years for nothing? u think they haven't developed plans to be self sufficient in nuclear technology for pakistan, if not im sure they are working on it right now. besides nuke is a nuke no matter how old the technology.... all u need is a devilery system which pakistan has.
 

mysterious

New Member
No Faisal, the article above is just pure speculation. Pakistan's nuclear program is here to stay. Ghauri III is already about to be tested and further enhancements of nukes as well as their delivery systems would follow. End of story! :smokingc:
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Well there were reports of Pakistani Nuclear installations getting US approved security systems; which is as good as sharing control with the Americans.
 

adsH

New Member
that mean JAck *** india Buys security stuff of US for its Nuclear sites including secure Communication equipment i don't see India sharing its control!! this is all a made up story why would a nation share its control over its strategic defense equipment
 

P.A.F

New Member
anyway even if pakistans nukes were in danger, then china would step forward and protect them coz china doesn't want pk's nuke program to fade away. and about america controling pk's nukes. thats just a lie.
the latest nuke teats that pk has done is to show the world that it's all under pk's control. ;)
 
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