Information on 5th Guards Tank Division and general Russian military information

[Aquastorm]

I'm sorry if this has been covered in articles are is actually found searching for the web, but I'm relatively new to this field and my research has not amounted to anything, so I thought I'd try here to see you experts in this forum could help me out. I have a few questions which I need to find the answer to, so I made a list for easier reading:

1) I need some information on Russia's 5th Guards Tank Division, I've look it up and some sources indicate of the use of the honorific "Don" (5th "Don" Guards Tank Division) Is this correct?

2) What is the approx. size in terms of manpower and equipment each regiment (108th Tank Regiment,140th Guards Tank Regiment;
160th Guards Tank Regiment, 311th Guards Motor Rifle Regiment, 861st SP Artillery Regiment, 940th Anti-aircraft Missile Regiment) - Information relating to the 861st being a priority

3) Equipment used for the said above regiment.

4) What is the usual rank for a person that is in charge of a regiment and in charge of the division?

Thanks in advance, any assistance is extremely appreciated.

 

[SuperSLime]

2) What is the approx. size in terms of manpower and equipment each regiment (108th Tank Regiment,140th Guards Tank Regiment;
160th Guards Tank Regiment, 311th Guards Motor Rifle Regiment, 861st SP Artillery Regiment, 940th Anti-aircraft Missile Regiment) - Information relating to the 861st being a priority

3) Equipment used for the said above regiment.

The 861st will be equipped with 54x 2S3 152mm SP howitzers or, if it's received new equipment, 54x 2S19 152mm SP. It will also have 1V12 series OP/CP vehicles, PRP-4 recce vehicles and an awful lot of trucks.

Wow, you're in luck :-D 861st has 2S19 and possibly BM-21 MRLs. You can find equipment types for 5th Guards Tank Div here:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9059/RussianArmedForces.html

The TRs and MRR are listed as having T-90. I'd be very surprised if they're fully equipped; my guess is that at least one, probably two, TRs and the MRR have T-72B(M) and one or two TRs and the Independent Tk Bn have T-90. There won't be any BTR-equipped MR troops in the division, although probably a lot of BTRs in support weapons platoons etc and it looks like the 2S3s have been used to replace the 2S1s in the Regimental Arty Bns.

A TR has 3x Tk Bns with 31x Tks per Bn and a MR Bn with 31x BMPs (probably BMP-2) and supporting vehicles. A MRR has 3x MR Bns with 31x BMPs and supporting vehicles and a Tk Bn with 40x tanks (Tk Platoons in TRs have 3x tks while Tk Pls in MRRs have 4x tks. Both types of Bns have 3x Companies of 3x Platoons plus one tk for the Bn Commander.) TRs and MRRs both have an arty Bn of 18x SP guns (2S3 in this case) as well as recce (BRM-1K, BMP-2, BRDM-2 and BTR-80), anti-tank (MT-12 or 2A45 AT guns and 9P148 ATGM vehicles) and air defence (2S6 and SA-13) companies.

The Independent Tk Bn has between 3 and 5 companies of 10x tks each plus 1x tk for the Bn Cmdr.

 

[Aquastorm]

Does anyone know how many tanks there are in each regiment and in the total division strength?

Doesn't have to be specific, a typical Russian division of similar..circumstance would do too.

 

[SuperSLime]

Does anyone know how many tanks there are in each regiment and in the total division strength?

Doesn't have to be specific, a typical Russian division of similar..circumstance would do too.

A Tank Regt (TR) has 94 tanks; 3x Tk Bns of 31 plus 1 for the Regt Comd. A Motor Rifle Regt (MRR) has 41 tanks. A tank division (TD) has 3x TR and 1x MRR for a total of 323 plus an Independent Tank Battalion of 31, 41 or 51 tanks (this varies between divisions) for a grand total of 354, 364 or 374 tanks.

A Motor Rifle Division (MRD) has 3x MRR each with 41 tks and a Tk Regt with 94 for a total of 94 plus an Independent Tank Battalion, for a total of 248, 258 or 268 tanks.

When new tanks are received (for example T-90s) the Independent Tk Bn will be equipped with them first, then Tk Bns in TRs, and finally Tk Bns in MRRs.

Hope this helps. I can answer most questions on Soviet/Russian unit structures and tactics if you need any more info.

 

[Aquastorm]

Say....which three tank or motor rifle division stationed near the Russia-Mongolia and Russia-China border be the "best" trained/equipped/funded to fight a conventional shooting war with the Chinese?

I'm thinking the 5th Guards Tank would be a possible candidate since they did receive some T-90s. But any other noticeable divisions in the area that would post a significant threat as a invasion force, I don't know.

 

[SuperSLime]

Say....which three tank or motor rifle division stationed near the Russia-Mongolia and Russia-China border be the "best" trained/equipped/funded to fight a conventional shooting war with the Chinese?

I'm thinking the 5th Guards Tank would be a possible candidate since they did receive some T-90s. But any other noticeable divisions in the area that would post a significant threat as a invasion force, I don't know.

Um. Hard to say without knowing a little about your scenario.

I'll put my Russian head on and try to help you out here. Who is attacking and where? What is the nature and objective of the attack? How much notice do I get that I will be conducting operations (offensive or defensive), i.e. do I have a chance to carry out mobilisation of Category B divisions or move some regiments/divisions around?

The scenario will affect what divisions I'd want; in defence I'd want a higher proportion of MRDs.

I'd also aim for 4 operational divisions if possible, allowing me to deploy a complete Combined Arms Army (CAA) or Tank Army (TA) complete with Army assets.

 

[Firehorse]

[

Russian Army Remains in Decline
http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=407&issue_id=3292&article_id=2369565
..Instead of confronting the manpower crisis, the Russian leadership prefers cost-cutting methods that ignore decline within the army and prioritize other branches of service. Plans for the development of the Strategic Missile Troops, for example, are being implemented and are taking into account new anti-missile defense systems emerging abroad in the future. Lieutenant-General Vitaly Linnik, the Strategic Missile Troops Deputy Commander for Armaments said, "The approach used for development ensures the appropriate reaction to the plans of rolling out various air defense systems, while it has minimal risks and costs." The Strategic Missile Troops consist of 15 missile brigades and divisions. The grouping of intercontinental ballistic missiles numbered 596 units at the end of 2004, and it is armed with stationary and mobile (ground- and rail-based) missile systems. It represents a key element in Russia's nuclear capabilities and as such poignantly illustrates Russia's vast military power was constructed for the challenges of a former era, while its military manpower is faced with the challenges of "small wars" and unable to reform. ..

The Rot Continues
..Russia's aging ICBM force, which has gotten little money in the last decade, is still wasting away. This despite some new missile construction. Over the next decade, Russia's ICBM forces will decline from nearly 700, to under 200. Similar declines are underway for ground, naval and air forces.

Why all this is happening? Russia is an "old sick lady of Eurasia"- for lack of better term. The demographics are not showing any signs of improving, now or in the foreseeble future. The population of RF is only

141,377,752 (July 2007 est.)
[and negative] Population growth rate:
-0.484% (2007 est.) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

While Japan's population is

127,433,494 (July 2007 est.) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html

, and China's is

1,321,851,888 (July 2007 est.) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

Unless Russia starts accepting more immigrants from Asia it won't survive as a nation for much longer, even while armed to the teeth!

 

[SuperSLime]

Unless Russia starts accepting more immigrants from Asia it won't survive as a nation for much longer, even while armed to the teeth!

Russia doesn't want more immigrants from Asia. That's their business, not mine. It's also not relevant to a discussion of the Russian military.

Russia is doing various things to improve armed forces manning, including employing "Kontraktniki" and converting divisions to brigades. I don't know how it will work out, but the money is available to pay the troops and there are moves to improve living conditions.

 

[Firehorse]

Well, if there are too few males willing to be coscripted/contracted i.e. enlisted, then that military is hollow. Proportionaly, the Romans in the 3-5th centuries AD had less territory and large population, but still had to recruit many soldiers from conquered peoples. I doubt that Russia in its present form, even having Interior Ministry troops that were fighting in local conflicts for the last 20 years, will be able to deal effectively with serious internal problems:

Medvedev warned that without a unified leadership Russia could "disappear" as a political entity. He also stated that the leadership is unhappy with dissent, giving ominous signals that the Kremlin could be ready for an even stronger power grab to rein in political opposition, both in the regions and in the center. .. Medvedev named Siberia and the Russian Far East as two of Russia's most troubled areas in terms of the potential for fragmentation; he did not even mention Chechnya. He stated that the construction of an oil pipeline through the region could boost the local economy. But at the same time, Medvedev pointed out that Russia's weakness there is not merely economic, but also demographic. Medvedev warned that Russia needs to address the panoply of problems in those regions, otherwise, "cold and emptiness will reign there." http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=407&issue_id=3292&article_id=2369564

 

[SuperSLime]

Well, if there are too few males willing to be coscripted/contracted i.e. enlisted, then that military is hollow.

We'll see. The Russian military, in my opinion (which is well informed and not at all humble) is rapidly regaining effectiveness.

 

[Aquastorm]

Um. Hard to say without knowing a little about your scenario.

I'll put my Russian head on and try to help you out here. Who is attacking and where? What is the nature and objective of the attack? How much notice do I get that I will be conducting operations (offensive or defensive), i.e. do I have a chance to carry out mobilisation of Category B divisions or move some regiments/divisions around?

The scenario will affect what divisions I'd want; in defence I'd want a higher proportion of MRDs.

I'd also aim for 4 operational divisions if possible, allowing me to deploy a complete Combined Arms Army (CAA) or Tank Army (TA) complete with Army assets.

Scenario: In a alternate timeline - It is the early 2010's, fuelled by money from recently discovered Siberian oil and gold in the early 2000s, the Russian government has the trust of the people and enough money to finally walk with its head high again since the days of NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Russia's armed forces stand strong, well trained and equipped.

Russia intends on taking China and Mongolia in a bid to take the oil fields that span across the borders, securing that will allow them to drive southwards. The scope of the operation is along the entire border, although the main focus would be where the Russia-China-Mongolia borders meet, the nature is to attack and gain as much territory as possible in the steam roller approach.
Preparations and mobilisations (including Category B divisions) have not been noticed by the enemy, any division from any other military district has been made available to you for this operation.

You have to understand, I am writing fiction, so even if you provide certain facts and figures, I may have to forgo them in the sake of following the "rules" of the established alternate timeline.

 

[SuperSLime]

Russia intends on taking China and Mongolia in a bid to take the oil fields that span across the borders, securing that will allow them to drive southwards. The scope of the operation is along the entire border, although the main focus would be where the Russia-China-Mongolia borders meet, the nature is to attack and gain as much territory as possible in the steam roller approach.

Wow, ambitious!

OK, this is not a job for three divisions. Also, there's no way that Russia can occupy the whole territory of China and Mongolia. What it CAN do is take the oilfields and a buffer zone beyond them.

Forces required: A reinforced Front consisting of two Combined Arms Armies made up mainly of Cat B divisions; one CAA made up entirely of Cat A divisions and a Tank Army of Cat A divisions. The mission of the two Cat B CAAs is to launch an attack on a broad front along the Chinese border; this won't succeed but will require a lot of resources to counter.

72 hours later the Cat A CAA attacks at the China/Mongolia/Russia border. Its mission: To defeat the Mongolian border forces; defeat the Chinese border forces; open a gap about 50-100km wide in the Chinese forward line; secure the flanks of this gap against Chinese and Mongolian counter-attacks. The Tank Army will be inserted through this gap and advance rapidly into China. Its mission is not to take land; it will aim to engage and destroy the most capable units of the PLA.

 

[Aquastorm]

How many km do you think the Russians can take before the Chinese manage to throw a proper counter attack back at the Russians? With the theoretical bulk of PLA engaged in peace keeping missions in Africa and the Middle East, with minor elements in a joint exercise in NATO countries.

And do you have any suggestions on how the Russians fight? Artillery barrage then tanks then motorized infantry? Or would the soviet doctrine be hide the artillery until enemy contact is made?

 

[SuperSLime]

The Cat B CAAs would advance 50-80km; they would then move to the defensive.

As for the main attack... where exactly are the oilfields that you're talking about? Are they in Inner Mongolia AR?

 

[SuperSLime]

And do you have any suggestions on how the Russians fight? Artillery barrage then tanks then motorized infantry? Or would the soviet doctrine be hide the artillery until enemy contact is made?

Artillery will be used constantly. There will be a lot of reconnaisance forces in front of the advance, out to 100km ahead. As they locate headquarters, reserves, artillery and long-range weapons (SSMs) they will call in long-range artillery and MRL fire on them.

OK, Russian MRDs have one MRR equipped with BMPs and two MRRs with BTRs.* The BTR-equipped regiments will conduct the initial attack, probing for weak spots in the enemy defences. MRRs break their tank Bn up among their MR Bns, so that each platoon of 3 BMPs or BTRs has one tank attached to it. They also have arty in support. Each MR Bn has a mortar battery with 120mm mortars or 82mm Vasilyek automatic mortars (or possibly 2S23 or 2S31 SP mortars in higher-category units) and each MRR has an arty Bn with SP guns. These were traditionally 122mm but are now being replaced with 152mm 2S3s (these used to be used in Division Arty Regts, but are now being replaced with 2S19s so are available to replace 122mm guns at Regt level.) Against the Chinese, I would ensure that any 2S1 122mm guns had been replaced with 2S3 152mms. The reason for this is that while most Chinese artillery is inferior to Russian types, the new PLZ-45 SP and Type 59 towed 155mm guns have a very good range; 2S1s would be outclassed.

Immediately before an attack there will be a short but very intense bombardment; the Russians believe that artillery causes most of its casualties in the first 30 seconds of fire. The BTRs will then advance, followed closely by their attached tanks. As they identify enemy positions they will report them, and artillery will be fired at them. The tanks and support weapons platoons will engage enemy anti-tank systems. At about 3-500m from the enemy the infantry will dismount from the BTRs and assault the enemy positions. The BTRs and tanks will give covering fire with their weapon systems; if the enemy anti-tank systems are damaged enough the vehicles may follow the infantry in. As soon as the position is taken, because the enemy have retreated or been destroyed, the infantry will mount up in the BTRs and pursue the remaining enemy to prevent them setting up a new defence.

Once the BTR Regts have located the weakest part of the enemy defence, the BMP-equipped Regt will attack there using the same tactics; however the BMPs will be used more aggressively. If the enemy have been sufficiently suppressed by arty, tanks and support weapons the infantry may make a mounted attack, with the BMPs driving right onto the enemy position. If the enemy retreat the MRR will pursue immediately; if the enemy resist the infantry will dismount right on their position and assault, supported at very close range by the BMPs (which have a lot of firepower.)

The BMP Regt will attempt to create a gap in the enemy defence; the Tank Regt will then be pushed through this gap to either pursue and destroy the enemy or to turn to one side and attack neighbouring enemy units from the rear (these enemy units will be nearly surrounded, because the BTR Regts will still be to their front!) This will enlarge the gap in the enemy defences.

The Army commander will now push his tank division (TD) through the enlarged gap and it will do the same as the tank regt but on a bigger scale. Finally, the Tank Army will be inserted into the enemy rear. It will attempt to destroy the retreating enemy, his reserves and support troops. By this time, the Russians believe that the enemy forces will be under severe stress and it will not be possible for them to oppose the tank army with a strong enough force to stop it; instead, it will meet with weaker forces and destroy them quickly, one by one.

* - In Tank Armies, all MR troops are BMP-equipped. I would also try to equip all MR troops in the Cat A CAA with BMPs; this CAA is going to have to do a lot of fighting against superior numbers, and I would want the BMP's greater firepower and armour to even the odds. If I had to, I would take BMPs from the Cat B CAAs to do this; the BMPs are not as important for a diversionary attack. However I would prefer not to do this, as it would not help my deception plan. I would be trying VERY hard to convince China that the Cat B CAAs were my main attack, probably by giving them at least some of the latest equipment.

I hope I'm making this clear enough. It's a big subject.

 

[SuperSLime]

4) What is the usual rank for a person that is in charge of a regiment and in charge of the division?

Sorry, I forgot this!

A Regt is commanded by a Lt-Col or Col. A Division is commanded by a Maj-Gen.

 

[Aquastorm]

Thank you very much! You've been a great help.

http: //s31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/Dark_Tank/?action=view&current=R-C-Mborder.jpg

shows the..areas of interest to the parties located near the border.

But you have to understand, they also need arable land, industries, ports, all of them which are located Southwards. This is just one move of many that will follow.

 

[SuperSLime]

Thank you very much! You've been a great help.

http: //s31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/Dark_Tank/?action=view&current=R-C-Mborder.jpg

shows the..areas of interest to the parties located near the border.

But you have to understand, they also need arable land, industries, ports, all of them which are located Southwards. This is just one move of many that will follow.

OK...

For the initial attack, then, I'd use one Cat B CAA in the West, attacking into the Xinjiang Uyghur AR (Lanzhou military district), and the other in the East, towards Harbin (Shenyang military district). The aim would be to fix the PLA armies in both military districts and prevent them responding to the main attack when it was launched; this would force the PLA to use the Beijing military district to counter-attack. Then the Cat A CAA would attack into Mongolia and the Inner Mongolia AR. When the gap is created, the Tank Army would break through and head for Beijing. The best PLA Army is the 38th GA, in the Beijing military district; the PLA would have no choice but to use that to try to stop my Tank Army. I would aim to destroy 38th GA in a meeting battle somewhere around 300km North of Beijing, then turn the Tank Army NE to destroy the PLA armies in Shenyang military district, which would still be fixed in place by the Cat B CAA attacking there.

The Tank Army has enough air defence assets to control the air above itself. As it engaged each PLA army it met I would use my air force to try to gain air superiority over the PLA army as well, allowing me to use my attack helicopters and attack aircraft. Each battle with a PLA army would begin with massive air, rocket and MRL strikes to destroy long-range weapons, headquarters, supply units and concentrations of tanks; I would be aiming to pin each PLA division in place and prevent them supporting each other. Each division (or brigade) would then be attacked and destroyed, one at a time, by the three Tank Divisions in the Tank Army, while the MR division began attacking the next PLA division. The MR division's attack would force each division in turn to defend against it; the Tank Divisions would then manoeuvre to attack from the flanks and rear.

Next I would regroup the Cat A CAA to occupy everything East of a line through Beijung and Ulan Bator; at this point I would have enough force on the ground that without 38th GA, the PLA would not be able to effectively attack me. While I took control of this area I would be mobilising Cat C MRDs to act as occupation troops; I would then replace losses in the Cat A and B armies to prepare for further operations.

If the Tank Army could be fixed in place before it had destroyed the bulk of the PLA forces in the Beijing and Shenyang military districts, it would have a real problem; the PLA could then mass armies to counter-attack and defeat it. However, it is powerful enough that it could defeat any one PLA army at a time. Therefore I would try to keep it moving, and use reconnaisance, attack aircraft, rockets and MRLs to locate and attack any PLA armies or divisions moving against it. You were asking how far I'd get before the PLA could launch a proper counter-attack; the PLA is so big that if it launched a proper counter-attack I would almost certainly lose, which is why my plan is to use speed and aggression to destroy its best armies before they can counter-attack me. The way for China to win is to stop my Tank Army moving before it destroys 38th GA. Once it has defeated 38th GA, China has lost.

Does Russia need arable land and industry though? They have plenty of both. I'll certainly agree that they would like to have some warm-water ports on their East coast.

So, how would you organise the Chinese defence? And what is it you're writing exactly? (Just curious!)