Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

The package is USD 390 Mio not GBP 390 Mio. It is big number for a refurbished second hand light carrier, but still below price of one PPA or even FMP which basically Type 31 derivative.

Mind you the info still not official one, but coming from a salesman that eventough he has insider information,but nonetheless not final ones. The close comparison is when Brazil bought HMS Ocean. It cost them officially GBP 85 Mio in 2017 or around USD 125-130mio at that period exchange rate.

HMS Ocean more to LPH, while Garibaldi is Light Carrier. Still if the package really in USD 390 Mio, then it is potentially include substantial structural refurbishment of the carrier and systems update.

Personally I still not really see the need for Command and Helicopter/UAV carrier at this time around for TNI-AL. Still if Fincantieri offer this as part of sweetener deal for next batch PPA or other vessels that's going to be build in their local partner yard, perhaps that's an attraction on different perspective.

Afterall China also offering their S26 Submarine as part of sweetener deal from batch of Type 52D Destroyer (at least the rumours put it). Turkey also rumours going to offer at least couple of second hand 209-1400 for their Destroyer or Frigate package. Package offering could also be what Fincantieri now doing.

 

[koxinga]

IMO, it may make more sense for Indonesia to take one of the Mistral class off Egypt's hands. They are mostly tied up in their respective home ports, and honestly, while they claim to have a need, I hardly see a necessity to have two of them.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

IMO, it may make more sense for Indonesia to take one of the Mistral class off Egypt's hands. They are mostly tied up in their respective home ports, and honestly, while they claim to have a need, I hardly see a necessity to have two of them.

There is a big chance that Egypt doesn't want to get rid of one LHD, but want to keep them both. They got them for a extremely good price.

 

[Ananda]

As usual when MinDef shown an asset in their channel, means either they already procure or the effective contract already been agreed. This time it is ATMACA SSM from Turkiye. It is already in talk that ATMACA will become main SSM in TNI-AL investory with Exocet Blk3.

Question that need to be seen more is further developments on Indonesian domestic SSM. It is been known on the reengineering program for domestic SSM base on Chinese Type 705. It's still having mix information. Whether now they are working with Roketsan on using ATMACA as base or 705 reenginerring still in traction, remain to be seen.

 

[Ananda]

x.com

x.com

Indonesia Ambasador in Turkiye X account, yesterday put photos on first steel cutting on Fast Missile Boat 70m , in TAIS shipyard. This is being call KCR-70. TAIS seems doing two project so far with Indonesia. KCR-60 (actually 65m) being build under license in Palindo shipyard in Batam,while this KCR-70 being build by their yard.

Seems this I suspect because this KCR-70 use gas turbine and Indonesian yard so far has no experience on installing Gas Turbine. This will be first gas turbine Fast Missile vessel in TNI-AL after South Korean build Tacoma FMB in the 80's.

TNI-AL so far avoiding procuring Gas Turbine and stick with Diesel.However with PPA and now this KCR-70, seems they are begin to venture on Gas Turbine again. Eventough still in smaller scale.

 

[koxinga]

This one?

 

[Ananda]

Yes, that one. That's the only 70m fast missile boat from TAIS portfolio.

FACM - 70 Fast Attack Craft Missiled

<p>Designed to meet the high speed, sea keeping and maneuverability requirements for defensive and offensive operations in littoral waters.</p>

www.taisshipyards.com

While TAIS design also being use by Palindo for their KCR-60


From TNI-AL site.


From TAIS site

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thank you for sharing.
I dont understand why they do not call this new patrolboat class KCR-65 instead of KCR-60. It is so confusing.

 

[swerve]

IMO, it may make more sense for Indonesia to take one of the Mistral class off Egypt's hands. They are mostly tied up in their respective home ports, and honestly, while they claim to have a need, I hardly see a necessity to have two of them.

To always have one available you need at least two.

 

[koxinga]

Thank you for sharing.
I dont understand why they do not call this new patrolboat class KCR-65 instead of KCR-60. It is so confusing.

A question is what does it mean for the indigenous designs (KCR-60). The current KCR-60 is considered gen IV of their Kapal Cepat Rudal program, and while the initial 2 ships had significant programs, they were progressively identified and rectified.

Will this mean a transfer of technology for a new generation of KCR?

 

[Ananda]

BRIN - Badan Riset dan Inovasi Nasional

Badan Riset dan Inovasi Nasional

brin.go.id

question is what does it mean for the indigenous designs (KCR-60).

Indegenous design still being developed further. As for tech transfer, by regulation all foreign suppliers now has to give tech transfer. However I suspect TAIS will give it to their partner yard just like potentially Fincantieri do later on if they got contract for PPA Batch 2.

This is from my understanding way of MinDef not putting their eggs on one basket. This is also seems MinDef ways to let private yards to work with foreign suppliers. Thus not letting all development being hold by SOE yards.

 

[Ananda]

There're talks and speculation in Indonesian forums that the KCR-60 being build by Palindo is not license build LPC-65 as I put above. However it could be slightly larger design call FPB-68. Some even speculate what Palindo build is actually FACM-70 sister ship.

This because the banner in Palindo provide image with slightly larger superstructure then LPC-65. All this still bit wild speculation, however I still believe it is diesel propulsion (CODAD) vessel. Simply because no Indonesian Private Yards has experienced on installing Gas Turbine, while both FPB-68 and FACM-70 are CODAG not CODAD.

So will have to wait when Palindo KCR-60 version being launch, to see which designs they actually license to.

 

[koxinga]

There're talks and speculation in Indonesian forums that the KCR-60 being build by Palindo is not license build LPC-65 as I put above. However it could be slightly larger design call FPB-68. Some even speculate what Palindo build is actually FACM-70 sister ship.

This because the banner in Palindo provide image with slightly larger superstructure then LPC-65. All this still bit wild speculation, however I still believe it is diesel propulsion (CODAD) vessel. Simply because no Indonesian Private Yards has experienced on installing Gas Turbine, while both FPB-68 and FACM-70 are CODAG not CODAD.

So will have to wait when Palindo KCR-60 version being launch, to see which designs they actually license to.

It should be a Palindo design. TAIS has some inputs with the LBC-65 based design, but it has since evolved into a 68 metre variant (length increased, aft 40mm gun removed for RHIB). The engines are MAN 20V175D-ML diesel, rated at 4400kW.

Here are the latest photos that was released yesterday, by the supplier of the waterjet system, Doen ( DOEN DJ450B-DT ). Construction seems to have moved fast and hull is close to completion and will be launched in early 2025. It almost seems like a parallel project to the FACM70, since this is supposed to also feature Havelsan systems and other Turkish systems.

 

[Ananda]

Delate as double.

 

[Ananda]

Russian, Indonesian Navies to Hold First Ever Joint Exercises 'Orruda 2024'

The navies of Russia and Indonesia will hold the first ever joint exercises codenamed "Orruda 2024," they will be held in the port of the Indonesian city of Surabaya and the Java Sea.

sputnikglobe.com

Indonesian Navy will conducting exercises Orruda with Russian navy.

Photo from Russia Embassy attach in Indonesian MinDef site

TNI AL dan Angkatan Laut China bahas latihan bersama "Heping Garuda"

TNI Angkatan Laut dan Angkatan Laut China (PLA) membahas berbagai kerja sama bidang operasi, pendidikan dan latihan bersama, termasuk di antaranya Latihan ...

m.antaranews.com

Also in talk to conduct exercises Heping Garuda with PLAN. It is rumours that Type 52D Destroyer will be involved as type of Destroyer that China offering to Indonesia

meantime combine exercise Keris Woomera 2024 will conducting soon in Bathrust Island Australia and Situbondo East Java Indonesia. Involving all three branches of the armed forces.

Add official update on the exercise:

Australia, Indonesia conduct Exercise ‘Keris Woomera'

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) and Indonesian National Armed Forces (Tentara Nasional Indonesia: TNI) have teamed up for Exercise ‘Keris Woomera', the Australian...

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

Additional foto from Getty Images on two of three Project 20381 Corvette that Russia send to participate in this year Ouruda Naval Exercise with Indonesian Navy. Difference from 20380 is the changes of CIWS gun to VLS (at least from what I can see).

Asside Frigate, Indonesia also have need for additional Corvette/Light Frigate. Could it be this Russian try to offer for export market ? Next exercise with PLAN also potentially bring Type 52D as part offer for Indonesia Destroyer program (altough this one still not official yet if Indonesia really want Destroyer asside Corvette/Light Frigate and Full size Frigate program).

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia secures facility to fund acquisition of Italian PPAs

Indonesia has secured a loan facility to fund the acquisition of two multirole offshore patrol ships (Pattugliatore Polivalente d'Altura: PPA) from Italian shipbuilder...

www.janes.com

Two PPA for Indonesia already got financial back up from consortium of FI lead by Paribas. If not mistaken Paribas also lead FI consortium that provide credit/finance line for Rafale. The two ships will be name KRI Brawijaya and KRI Prabu Siliwangi. Interesting name choices, as those name used on Skory class Destroyer, the last Destroyer class that TNI-AL has.

This is first large Frigate that TNI-AL has, as FMP still progressing in manufacturing at PAL yard. Perhaps the choice of name Indicates that TNI-AL treat their large Frigate as same when they treat Skory class before. As their main escorts for Capital ship. In 60's Skory use as main escort of cruiser KRI Irian as navy only capital ship.

 

[Ananda]

PAL slides that they have put when their CEO become presenter in some campus. Basically it's show case PAL Naval design before he is CEO and after he become one. Shown the turn around under his initiative call IM4. The slides been circulating in Indonesian forums and X enthusiasts account, however take this one from Keris FB.

Well most CEO off course try to show case his achievement, but of 6 design only 4 that already got traction; The Hospital Ships, Frigate (FMP), LPD 163m (UAE order), and Scorpone. Well the submarine either 209 or scorpone should not be call PAL design anyway.

The UUV/KSOT is from my understanding is his crown jewel, while LHD it is increasingly potentially will be move back from priority (if info from finance guys circle hold). Especially if MinDef choose to take Fincantieri offer.