Indian pilots to test skills against US F-16s

[P.A.F]

http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/09/top9.htm

CALCUTTA, April 8: Indian air force (IAF) pilots will face off against US airmen in F-16 fighters in mock dogfights in November, officials said on Friday , two weeks after Washington agreed to sell the jets to nuclear neighbours India and Pakistan.

Washington last month lifted a ban on sales of F-16 combat jets to Pakistan - imposed in 1990 as a sanction over its nuclear weapons programme - to demonstrate its support for a nation that had become a major ally in the war on terrorism after Sept 11.

India opposed the US move, saying it could harm its peace talks with Pakistan, but Washington also tried to mollify New Delhi by offering to sell it the combat aircraft as well, besides the more advanced F-18 Hornet.

"The joint air exercise planned with the United States in November would provide an opportunity for us to assess the capabilities of the F-16 and its suitability to our requirements," said an Indian defence spokesman in Calcutta.

Four to six F-16 jets will take part in the joint exercises spread over two weeks at the key Kalaikunda airbase, about 120km south of Calcutta. While the US Air Force will join the exercises - code named "Cope India" - with F-16s, India will field its Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30MKIs.

The Indian air force - the world's fourth largest - is looking to buy 126 sophisticated combat jets and has short listed the Russian MiG-29, the Swedish Gripen, the French Mirage-2000.

New Delhi has not ruled out considering the F-16s but local media reports say air force officers were not keen on the American plane as India's fleet was already highly diversified.

New Delhi has bought artillery finding radars from the United States that are being deployed on the Line of Control and is eyeing the Patriot missile systems as a deterrent to Pakistan. -Reuters

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it will be interesting to see the outcome of this exercise. MKI vs F-16:coffee

 

[rajupaki]

Whatever the outcome will be, the point of concern will be that indian's will get somemuch useto to F16's and which is not good forPAK.

 

[rajupaki]

BTW tell me that if one country want to do air exersice with another country then do that country need permission with the country whose aircrafts are taking part in it?

If no, we can also do exersice with those countries using Migs? Isnt it!

 

[adsH]

Chances are, that these F-16 are not going to be the Upto date Versions, a better part of the f-16 are being upgraded. And chances are those Pilots would be young and not very experienced(Again without the whole USAF Package ie EW and AWACS and other Intelligent C4i assets). India would gain very litle in-terms of insight to how PAF would operate the F-16, Doctrines Weapons EW systems Circumstances or Dog fights Locations, tactics, Orientation level of the pilot would be very different. its a mere Show of support. this seems to be Dissimilar training which IAF seems to be doing alot these days but it has very litle to do with India achieving a Tactical edge over F-16 operators.

 

[P.A.F]

sorry rajupaki. i seriously failed to understand your post. please can u write it in a more understandable format again please.
Thanx

 

[vrus]

Su-30MKI vs F-16 will be very interesting, despite it being simulated. I think the Su will do better because it was made a lot of time after the F-16, meaning it probably has more technology in it. But I wouldn't be completely sure !

 

[adsH]

Su-30MKI vs F-16 will be very interesting, despite it being simulated. I think the Su will do better because it was made a lot of time after the F-16, meaning it probably has more technology in it. But I wouldn't be completely sure !

its a dog fight and chances are EW system wouldn't be available, the MKi is not of the same class, you just can't compare Mangos with oranges. i think the F-16 would be pitted against the Mirages or the Mig29 or teh mig 21. the SU-30 Mki is allot more Heavier (Its used for Strategic Bombing) so i don't know how exactly it would perform with a lighter Versatile Fighter like F-16. I don't think Dancing would do any good here. the SU can be deadly at longer ranges.

 

[srirangan]

Su 30 MKI versus F-16 Blk 52 don't make sense. Should be the Mirage up against the F-16's.

 

[Aussie Digger]

On top of the issues ADSH has already mentioned, neither side will display the full range of capabilities of their aircraft. The exercise parameters will be established well in advance. Each airforce will be attempting to achieve certain goals as a result of this exercise.

The USAF will no doubt be attempting to show the F-16 in it's best light (in order to try and bolster it's potential sale to India) and may very well come with "all guns blazing" but things such as radar range parameters, missile range and capabilities, the full maneuvre capability of the USAF F-16's etc are vital national secrets that won't be revealed in any exercise.

The USAF will no doubt try and discover the maximum it can about the capabilities of the SU-30 and whilst EW might not be used extensively, things such as USAF Radar Warning Receivers will probably be operating at their full extent to detect IAF airforce radars etc... The IAF no doubt will do the same...

 

[srirangan]

On top of the issues ADSH has already mentioned, neither side will display the full range of capabilities of their aircraft. The exercise parameters will be established well in advance. Each airforce will be attempting to achieve certain goals as a result of this exercise.

The USAF will no doubt be attempting to show the F-16 in it's best light (in order to try and bolster it's potential sale to India) and may very well come with "all guns blazing" but things such as radar range parameters, missile range and capabilities, the full maneuvre capability of the USAF F-16's etc are vital national secrets that won't be revealed in any exercise.

The USAF will no doubt try and discover the maximum it can about the capabilities of the SU-30 and whilst EW might not be used extensively, things such as USAF Radar Warning Receivers will probably be operating at their full extent to detect IAF airforce radars etc... The IAF no doubt will do the same...

Agree. This could very well be an attempt by the US to market the F-16's to India. Note, in these exercises the F-16's real competitor will be the Mirage 2000's and not the Su-30's.

 

[vrus]

But Su is too small to be a bomber. Do you think the USAF will allow the Indians to try and experiment with a few other planes ? Weering off the topic, but why are so many USAF bombers given a mirror coat ? As in reflective ? Why don't they paint it ?

 

[highsea]

...but why are so many USAF bombers given a mirror coat ? As in reflective ? Why don't they paint it ?

No USAF bombers today are unpainted. In WW2 era, they were polished because it looked nice and saved weight.

 

[vrus]

You mean the Cold War era. What about my other question? Do you think the USA will allow IAF planes apart form the Su ? I think they should try the Tejas and the Mirages also.

 

[rafale_2k5]

I also want to take part in this war simulation i will fly JF-17 thunder.

Lol let them do something they must have something in mind why do you give sujestions.They want to sell f-16's so if they want to compare F-16's with the su then let them do if you dont agree post a letter to them on your behalf not on the behalf of DT caz we dont agree with you.

It doesnt make a difference whether US brings in the block 50/52s or not since if IAE needed any EVALUATION it could very Well do so with the Isreli assistance, EXERCISES TO BE HELD PROBABLY BY END OF THIS YEAR n we all know Sufas r some of the most advanced block 50/52s so this pece of news more of public assuagin n nothing else, n thats why musharraf has ALSO HINTED THAT THEY MIGHT GO 4 A 4TH GENERATION FIGHTER SINCE PAF KNOWS SOONER OR LTER IAF SHALL KNOW WHAT A BLOCK 52 CAN DO R NOT N COUNTING UR OPTIONS IN ONE BASKET IS NOT A FEASIBLE OPTON......

 

[kashifshahzad]

It doesnt make a difference whether US brings in the block 50/52s or not since if IAE needed any EVALUATION it could very Well do so with the Isreli assistance, EXERCISES TO BE HELD PROBABLY BY END OF THIS YEAR n we all know Sufas r some of the most advanced block 50/52s so this pece of news more of public assuagin n nothing else, n thats why musharraf has ALSO HINTED THAT THEY MIGHT GO 4 A 4TH GENERATION FIGHTER SINCE PAF KNOWS SOONER OR LTER IAF SHALL KNOW WHAT A BLOCK 52 CAN DO R NOT N COUNTING UR OPTIONS IN ONE BASKET IS NOT A FEASIBLE OPTON......

Can any one tell me that what are 4th generation aircrafts are the stealth aircrafts are called 4th generation aircrafts

 

[highsea]

kashif, read this:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0182.shtml

Now Listen Up Everyone! You have forced me to clean up after you again. Keep this thread on topic or it will be locked. There will be no more baiting or bickering. Rafale, turn that damn caps lock off. If you want to emphasize text, use italics :nono

 

[highsea]

You mean the Cold War era. What about my other question? Do you think the USA will allow IAF planes apart form the Su ? I think they should try the Tejas and the Mirages also.

We were painting our bombers during the cold war era, but not right at first. Anyway, that is not the topic here, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.

Wrt the other question, it will be up to the planners of the excersize. I am sure there will be more AC involved than just F-16's and Su-30's. It's a DACT excersize, so there will be red and blue teams, with strike and cover packages, defensive sqdrn's, probably AWACS, etc. The details will not be released before the excersize, and anything released afterwards will be in the nature of diplomatic phrases, "We all learned a lot, we look forward to next year, we were very impressed by their professionalism, etc."

People need to understand, these are training excersizes- one side is supposed to lose. It's not about making comparisons of AC or AF's, and neither side is going to give away any secrets. The excersizes will be very tightly scripted, with packages and ROE's designed to maximize the training and "confidence building" aspects. It's not a free-for-all furball type thing.

 

[LCA_Tejas]

umm...I am not so sure that India will field the MKI ....just like the USA is not going to field their best and latest F-16s ....it might be that they will field the the su30Ks

Besides there is no point in letting them get to know the Su-30MKI at close quarters. The f-16 is in the same category as the Mirage 2000H/TH. I reckon they will probably field the Mirage 2000-Vs which we are due to acquire from Qatar soon against the F-16s. This would give them a chance to evaluate a little bit the perfromance of both planes which are under consideration for the 126 MMRCA contract .:dance3

BTw- been away for a while and I really like the smilies ...great job .:flash