india looses 2 soldiers a day
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mysterious
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Well I certainly did not advise Indian government to put 700,000 para-military/army troops on the ground in Jammu & Kashmir. That increases the concentration of the soldiers and they are 'more' visible and easier targets for people against 'em. :smokingc:
The Watcher
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simple, it has too many soldiers in the occupied Kashmir.seth said:
yeah i agree with The watcher there are too many of the soldiers diluting the operational budgets for that region i mean if you provide 60000+ dollar worth of armer to each soldier. and other stuff to t about 1 million soldiers well enough said !! you do the maths. and then add up there AF NAVY and ARMY new aquisitions and then training from foreign countries and then there huge living budgets and maintenance and logistics and then the activiation funds for the army AF and NAVY. the poor soldiers that are in the feild risking there lives come last India has no problem with numbers they worry if they don't adequately protection for there tanks they might not be able to fight properly i bet the same can be said about Chinese Military these are large countries with massive militaries!!!seth said:
Revival_786
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It cannot be said for all militaries with large armies. For example, the Chinese military is more better equipped than their Indian counterparts
Sorry about that. the thing is that China makes most of the military stuff by its self so they get a cheap buyeing rate and the Chinese have been equipping them selves for several years while india is trying to buy every thing in the short runn. i don't know why Pakistan and india display very litle patience in waiting for there platforms to be built when ever i have heard that india and pakistan plan to buy something its always the case that they plan to purchase some thing second hand atleast in the navy acquisition arena like apparently india wants our HMS invicible. i would think that it would be cheaper and better if they went-for french carriers and bought one that was built form scratch cheaper in the sense it would certainly stay in commision longer and would be newer(i think the reason why they wan't HMS invincible is because invincible is the quickest wayout). but in think the UK is going to over charge for the carrier becasue apparently there are a number of bidders!! now about paksitan well the only reson i see why pakistan goes for second hand is either the equipmen is not available to them becasue of political or monetary restrictions!!. another example just came to my head india apparently was bidding to replace its front line mig21 jets they preferred mig 29 as replacements but they chose not to put them infront of the Mirages because Russains were busy building there carrier based mig 29 for use on there new xSoviate Carrier.Revival_786 said:It cannot be said for all militaries with large armies. For example, the Chinese military is more better equipped than their Indian counterparts
getting back to the Army problems we had some problems with equipment too here when the British soldier went to iraq some didn't even have full body armer alot of the soldier that died were said to have been as a direct result of that. so there is an inquiry going onn.
mysterious
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You forget here adsh that India is the one who starts the arms race every time by trying to acquire huge quantities of advanced arms in the short-run through excessive shopping and that 'naturally' is perceived as a threat by Pakistan and so it has nothing to do but follow up to keep its minimum deterrence level up! :smokingc:
yeah normally you could say that but this time i will have to let pakistan take the credit for sparking the flame of arms race in a explosive gas filled chamber. If my memory does not deceive me i would recall when Pakistan was planning to purchase AWACS from the swedes this was before india had any sophisticated awacs they may have had soviets poor quality AWACS and then when pakistan bought those subs or started negotiations with the french. i can bet there were parallels between indian arm purchases but Kargil its slef was a fuel to an already burning fire which made india look back at its Quantity over quality policy and started purchasing and modernizing restructuring its Military. however many could say and argue that the modernization plann was drawn up ages ago but is suspicious that India started signing deals with major arms dealers just after the war.mysterious said:
i think we can also look into the terrain of kashmir as well. If you talk about iraq, US and British soldiers are are well equipped than the insurgents. But the main benefit the the coalition has that iraq is pretty open an open field to attack the enemy. of course there are sand storms but that makes the battle tough for both sides. Remember Gulf War 1, the Iraqi forces were slaughtered in the open desert because they were a big target for US planes.
Similarly the indian soldiers in kashmir are a big fat target. they are not very well equiped (but still better than the freedom fighters) and have to know the terrain well. kashmir is full of mountains and big trees and the freedom fighters have strong holds in many of these areas. so the fighting is tough for the indian soldiers. i mean it would be tough for any soldier or any armed forces. just imagine of walking into the woods and then being shot from one of the trees. it can be traumatizing for a soldier if he/she survives.
Similarly the indian soldiers in kashmir are a big fat target. they are not very well equiped (but still better than the freedom fighters) and have to know the terrain well. kashmir is full of mountains and big trees and the freedom fighters have strong holds in many of these areas. so the fighting is tough for the indian soldiers. i mean it would be tough for any soldier or any armed forces. just imagine of walking into the woods and then being shot from one of the trees. it can be traumatizing for a soldier if he/she survives.
Indian Army always realized the importance of the life of their soldiers but it were Politicians who never cared. Gladly India has a defence Minister who is really loved by its armed forces for taking care of their needs. Better late then never.
Here is an article from People's Daily.
Indian Army has launched a major plan to enhance the firepower, reconnaissance and surveillance of all infantry units with forces now being equipped with ultra modern light weapons like anti-material rifles, multi-shot grenades and flame throwers.
Lt. Gen. K. Nagaraj, Director General Infantry, told reporters Wednesday that this process would be completed within a time frame of two to three years.
Under the Plan, India's infantry units are getting human and arms detecting sensors, battlefield surveillance radars, hand heldthermals, anti-material rifles, 84 mm rocket launchers, 30 MM automatic grenade launchers, multi-shot grenades, missile launchers and other state-of-art weapons.
The units would also have enhanced communication, seismic, passive infra red and magnetic sensors as well as sniper rifles.
Nagaraj said that Indian Army had also commenced equipping the infantry troops with nuclear and biological proof clothing as wellas more bullet proof jackets.
"Within the next few months you will see the troops now dominating terrorists" Nagaraj said.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200310/22/eng20031022_126639.shtml
Here is an article from People's Daily.
Indian Army has launched a major plan to enhance the firepower, reconnaissance and surveillance of all infantry units with forces now being equipped with ultra modern light weapons like anti-material rifles, multi-shot grenades and flame throwers.
Lt. Gen. K. Nagaraj, Director General Infantry, told reporters Wednesday that this process would be completed within a time frame of two to three years.
Under the Plan, India's infantry units are getting human and arms detecting sensors, battlefield surveillance radars, hand heldthermals, anti-material rifles, 84 mm rocket launchers, 30 MM automatic grenade launchers, multi-shot grenades, missile launchers and other state-of-art weapons.
The units would also have enhanced communication, seismic, passive infra red and magnetic sensors as well as sniper rifles.
Nagaraj said that Indian Army had also commenced equipping the infantry troops with nuclear and biological proof clothing as wellas more bullet proof jackets.
"Within the next few months you will see the troops now dominating terrorists" Nagaraj said.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200310/22/eng20031022_126639.shtml
amit21mech
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What a stupid thread!!! Some body said something and every body juming the gun just because he said something which is like some humiliation to India. All of you have ever saw a CI field area. Indian Army is loosing 2 soldiers every day in a war not by high blood pressure or obesity. Even US and Brits are getting kicked in Iraq. Yankees got lesson of their lifes in Vietnam. Soviets too faced same situation. And all of them lost more then 2 soldiers every day.
Silly thread. Should be locked and deleted immediately otherwise it may start flames.
Silly thread. Should be locked and deleted immediately otherwise it may start flames.
Indian Army loosing two soldiers a day is no big deal. All of you shall ask some Military forces people like Aussie Digger or analyst like GF, that Gureilla war can never be won by any side, no matter how good equip the soldiers are. It can only be prolonged as long as one side backs off realizing it is not taking them anywhere thus bringing peace.
Other way round is like Russia with Chechanya, drop bloody bombs on Kashmiri civilians and kill everything in the range thus decimating gureillas too. But India is not Russia and India considers Kashmiris its own people.
Any country which has some type of terrorism going on against it looses soldiers. Bulletproof Jackets have not saved British or US Soldiers lives in Iraq where they are getting killed almost everyday.
Other way round is like Russia with Chechanya, drop bloody bombs on Kashmiri civilians and kill everything in the range thus decimating gureillas too. But India is not Russia and India considers Kashmiris its own people.
Any country which has some type of terrorism going on against it looses soldiers. Bulletproof Jackets have not saved British or US Soldiers lives in Iraq where they are getting killed almost everyday.
Some!! INdian people (kashmeeries)!!! they don't wan't to be INdians or Pakistani's why don't you guys let them go(Pakistanis and indians!! Indian forces have killed atleast 80 000+ Kashmeeries india calls them terrorists the kashmeeries call them Freedom fighters!!Soldier said:
Armor reduces the effectiveness of the opponents weapon hits there fore it is harder to neutralize a soldier when full body armour is worn, that why when ever you hear Us soldiers Vs insurgents in iraq there are more dead insurgent then the Us soldiers!!! in addition the US soldiers are far better trained and equiped and have the base theories rite!!!
adsH said:
And not only that. Since you are implying the there are more dead iraqis compared to US Soldiers, where did you get this fact from that there are more Indian Soldiers getting killed compared to Terrorists? For 10 terrorists it is one soldier. Indian soldiers are better trained to handle insurgency compared to US Soldiers who do not have any experience in it other then shooting here and there. Also what do you mean by BASE THEORIES? Seems like you should be a Military Analyst. Even GF will tell you that Any force which has experience of fighting insurgency always get their base theories better then others. I will love to hear your comments as to what you refer to BASE THEORIES. adSH, It will be better if you support what you say with the neutral news or columns or at least read the statistics before posting since you do not seem to know the reality and look at it from a biased perspective. Now even if I post the statistics of Soldiers killed compared to large numbers of terrorists, people will start disregarding that saying that they were innocent. I will say, only that much innocent as much as Iraqi insurgents whom US and UK Military is killing and torturing third degree.
Last but not the least. Irish people do not want to be with Britain. Why the heck Britain is always trying to suppress IRA?
mysterious
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I can hardly see how almost 80,000 killed to this day in Kashmir were terrorists or insurgents. You want statistics from human rights reports? They will tell you exactly how many innocent Kashmiris Indian forces have killed as compared to insurgent actions (Indian forces take a seven to eight fold lead).
IRA is a tererosit orignisation we don't lay claim on irish terotery but we do lay claim on our bit of the Norther irland whic has a large population of protestants. Proof IRA carried out Attocities, well look at the bombing they have crried out killing innocent people.Soldier said:
Ok Soldier i am not going to enter in this foolish game of name calling and blaming (we are mature individuals) it will just end up as the MOD breaking it up. but i see you have a very sensitive soft spot for the Mission In IHK!! all i am going to say is that forget what the NGO Human rights orgnisiation say about stats. look at history when Military is left to secure and guard a teritory. atrocities are committed!! the PAK army did them in Bangladesh, thats why prolonged army exposures to civilians is not advisable. i don't say the indian military machine is ruthless huamn killer but all i say is look at the suppression tactic (freedome of press is not granted, AID orgnisisation sare not allowed easy access UN is widely ignored) you have to agree that entire area is unsettled due to a revolting civilian population!!(admit it or not population is revolting, pakistan refused to admit it in 1970 and lost a territory because they didn't find a political solution) the terorist there that you call some call them insurgent some call freedom fighters may be responsible for those act that amit mentioned but. the facts is still that atrocities are bieng committed and some one has to stop them not by force !! that hasn't worked in 50 years!! So i am sorry for saying what i have said and i know alot of our sensative Indian freidns would be furious to even talk about this topic but i believe this is teh core reason why indian Sodier are being attacked in IHK!!
I used base theories as a mere expresion what i believe i meant was that the americans have comprehensive battle training you can't say that thery aren't any good at peacekeeping they contribute troops to the UN peace keeping missions too and there Army academies are far better than of any countries i believe every american soldier(i only know how officer traing goes) goes through a similar trainning package course as us here in the uk the British armed forces go through. where a comrehensive curriculum is taught!! that curriculum is thoughrow in war fare and other aspects of soldiering. EVER HEARD OF SANDHURST I Believ that where your Top rated generals Gradated from!!! http://www.atra.mod.uk/atra/rmas/
That is fine adSH. I also do not want to get into name calling. Thanks for your support and kudos to you. Being an Indian it is natural for me to have a soft heart for India. At the same time I do not promote or do not wish innocent civilians to be killed by security forces and insurgents. More so by Security forces as they are supposed to be desciplined and when they do these type of things, it backfires further more. There is a problem in Kashmire and India has not been clean at all in counter-insurgency operations. But at the same time, I am forced to call it collateral damage too, as at times things are done by each party only to promote another to come harsher. There is a lot to be desired of both sides to come clean on their behaviour and let innocent people live peacefully.adsH said:
At the same time, I checked the history of all the three armed forces chiefs and none of them is from Sandhurst. Yes, I do not deny that there may have been in the past which graduated from there. In India the most prominent College for Defence forces is khadakvasla, which has taught not only Indian students but people from African & western countries. Sorry Can not comment more as I know less about Military education exchange program as I have never been involved or have any relative in armed forces, whom i could ask about it more.
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