If given sufficient time and resources, would Germany's Wunderwaffe realign outcome?

[M1Brams]

At war's end, the US and Soviet Russia were extracting German scientists (Operation Paperclip) in the hope of securing vital German inventions that were under development, of which some were already fielded during "44(eg the STG-44 Assault Rifle and the Littoral class U-Boats but were in insufficient numbers to help realign the outcome of the war.If Hitler had settled for the pacifist approach to the Sudetenland and possibly, delaying WW2 by not invading Poland , would the developing wunderwaffe weapons(which would have been fielded) and developed probably overwhelm the allies ?

Some weapons of the Wunderwaffe (search on wikipedia, sorry cause i dont have enough posts yet)

 

[alexycyap]

No, Germany had no chance. By mid-1945, the US had the atomic bomb, rendering all Wunderwaffe obsolete.

 

[M1Brams]

No, Germany had no chance. By mid-1945, the US had the atomic bomb, rendering all Wunderwaffe obsolete.

How about anti -aircraft capability? Noting that Fat Man and Little boy were deployed to Hiroshima and Nagasaki through aircraft, it would take at least 5 years before a pilotless delivery system would be active which would give Germany time to research and follow up on its own atom bomb project as well as co-ordinate its defences.

 

[alexycyap]

By 1945, Allied industrial output would guarantee dominance at sea, even if Germany had better submarines. Even supposing Germany had hundreds of Wasserfall SAMs and Me-262 jet fighters to defend against US bombers, this would not be able to stop surprise raids from US carriers that could strike anywhere any time. Something like the Doolittle raid, with bombers taking off from carriers, flying low to avoid radar, then appearing over a coastal city to drop a small nuke. A few such successful strikes would have brought Germany to its knees.

Furthermore, most of Germany's Wunderwaffe were directed against the Allies. What about the mass Soviet armies from the east? Even if Germany did not invade the USSR in 1941, one way or another, there would be a Russo-German war by 1945, because Stalin was just as paranoid and blood-thirsty as Hitler was.

In my opinion, earlier and better-directed Wunderwaffe developments could have given Germany a great defensive advantage against the Allies from 1943 - 1944, perhaps even forestalling the Allied invasion of France. This may allow Germany to end the war in late 1945 (after a few cities nuked) on slightly better terms than unconditional surrender. Perhaps similar to the WW1 armistice. However Wunderwaffe could not in themselves deliver outright victory, because ultimately they just couldn't do enough damage, especially to the US.

 

[M1Brams]

By 1945, Allied industrial output would guarantee dominance at sea, even if Germany had better submarines. Even supposing Germany had hundreds of Wasserfall SAMs and Me-262 jet fighters to defend against US bombers, this would not be able to stop surprise raids from US carriers that could strike anywhere any time. Something like the Doolittle raid, with bombers taking off from carriers, flying low to avoid radar, then appearing over a coastal city to drop a small nuke. A few such successful strikes would have brought Germany to its knees.

Furthermore, most of Germany's Wunderwaffe were directed against the Allies. What about the mass Soviet armies from the east? Even if Germany did not invade the USSR in 1941, one way or another, there would be a Russo-German war by 1945, because Stalin was just as paranoid and blood-thirsty as Hitler was.

In my opinion, earlier and better-directed Wunderwaffe developments could have given Germany a great defensive advantage against the Allies from 1943 - 1944, perhaps even forestalling the Allied invasion of France. This may allow Germany to end the war in late 1945 (after a few cities nuked) on slightly better terms than unconditional surrender. Perhaps similar to the WW1 armistice. However Wunderwaffe could not in themselves deliver outright victory, because ultimately they just couldn't do enough damage, especially to the US.

With superior advances in technology ,compared to the allies maybe the Me-262 might be more of a match to the turbopropped B-25s that were the only aircraft that could carry nuclear bombs, besides Germany didnt focus itself on primarily air wunderwaffe , they also expanded into a wider area almost all the the same time from the 1938 era, when Hitler came into power.Fielding them with trials and delaying the start of WW2 by a few years(i read from a biography of Hitler that i happened to have several years ago that generally, the Wehrmacht would only be ready by the mid 45.)
And the scenario that you mentioned about the Russo-German war could not have happened.Stalin himself could not even believe that Hitler would invade in '41. He was all along expecting Hitler to keep to the Molotov,Ribbentrop pact.Bear in mind that these two countries could itself divide the whole world like pizza, with only the US the only country big enough to stop them.(i wonder why Hitler was as crazy as to attack Stalingrad before his army and secret techs were ready)Then again, the Wunderwaffe itself would give the both of them the advantage over the EU/US

 

[Marc 1]

I believe the Kriegsmarine had a plan for force Z (relying on memory here) - a couple of aircraft carriers, two more battleships larger than the Bismark and a stack more subs among other things. If only Hitler had have held off until 1944 when this plan was due to be completed - it may have been a different outcome. I believe the Luftwaffe and Whermacht had similar development plans.

 

[Toby]

not a difference at all except maybe slowing the inevitable

firstly on why the war started when it did
germany couldnt have delayed the war because they owed national debt if i remember what my tutor told me, the price of the economic turn around was military keynesian economics and it put the country in debt however hitler used the war as a national emergency and held repayments or scrubbed the debt i forget which

also germany didnt need tiger tanks or panther tanks as good as they where they needed spares alot of tanks could have been salvaged also the tiger and panther where to overcomplicated and difficult to produce and broke down


as for the rockets and stuff it was to little to late the reason they developed that line of technology was desperation the germans should have focused on producing more of a simpler designs and more of them the germans didnt need the superiority in technology they had


also soviet generals say they where planning an attack on the germans hence the general surprise so hitler couldnt have waited for that reason

 

[alexycyap]

With superior advances in technology ,compared to the allies maybe the Me-262 might be more of a match to the turbopropped B-25s that were the only aircraft that could carry nuclear bombs,

Don't forget that the Allies were not that far behind in jet fighter development. The Germans had their Me-262 first, but the British Gloster Meteor was not far behind (and one was given to the US for study). Historically, by the time the Meteor went into combat in 1945, the Luftwaffe was already beaten. However, had the Luftwaffe possessed a lot more Me-262s (plus fuel and pilots), the world would have witnessed massive jet-on-jet dogfights over Europe in 1945. So the B-29s (which carried atomic bombs) may not be so vulnerable after all. The Allies could always out-produce the Germans in a war of attrition.

 

[alexycyap]

I believe the Kriegsmarine had a plan for force Z (relying on memory here) - a couple of aircraft carriers, two more battleships larger than the Bismark and a stack more subs among other things. If only Hitler had have held off until 1944 when this plan was due to be completed - it may have been a different outcome. I believe the Luftwaffe and Whermacht had similar development plans.

In 1944, the US Pacific Fleet alone could deploy 8 large carriers (plus 20+ smaller light/escort carriers) just for the Leyte Gulf battle. Even the mighty Japanese battleships were useless in the face of US naval air-power. I doubt the German force Z could have made any difference against the US Navy in 1944.

 

[Thiel]

It's also well worth remembering that Germany wasn't the only one who were building up it's forces.

 

[riksavage]

ME-262's had a pretty poor track record, more pilots died in accidents taking off and landing than in actual combat. The Gloster Meteor was more than a match, plus US/UK prop pilots developed SOP's to shoot M-262's down in ever increasing numbers. They simply loitered over known airfields and either wasted them on the ground or destroyed them when taking off, or in the final landing approach. Allied pilots also learned how to take their Mustangs in to a steep dive, using gravity to increase speed to the point where they could match that of the ME-262's. All this is talk is irrelevant though, the Germans were running out of pilots in 45, so the actual number of 262's built was meaningless, that is unless the Germans leapt three generations and developed a UCAV version!!!!

B29's were pressurised and flew at such high altitude non-pressurised fighters couldn't reach them. They would have been dropping A-Bombs over Germany unhindered if the war had dragged on.

The Bismark, though a great looking ship was a folly. Its career was pretty short lived, sailed on one mission, sunk a few Merchantmen. sunk the Hood and then was hounded and destroyed. Take the cost of building the ship, material used, number of hands lost and turn that combination into U-Boats instead and I bet you would have achieved a higher kill ratio against Allied shipping. In fact all the Pocket Battleships were follies, Bismarck, Graf Spee (sunk in 39) and Tirpitz (took part in one action, only time guns were fired), Lustow (severely wounded in 41) were all sank or confined to port by the RN/RAF, not one had a strategic influence on the wars outcome. In fact the German battleships in WWII performed less well than thier counterparts in WWI.

Whilst we lord German WWII military engineering, the war was won by quantity not quality. The German obsession with the latter meant they ended up facing huge odds on the Eastern and Western front. Too many prototypes in development, they produced more tank designs than the rest of all the combatents put together!