Identification Question

[Feanor]

The Ukranian tanks on this photo look a lot like T-80UD's but the article claims that the parade only had T-64BM Bulat. Is this a new T-64 mod that bring it close to T-80 standard? Oh and the article is in Russian.

http://arms-expo.ru/site.xp/049057052048124051053053053.html

 

[tatra]

The tanks in the image are T-64BM Bulat. You can tell in enlargement by the add-on armor on the glacis (appears more like a one-piece applique, as opposed to seperate ERA-tiles, though they are seperate ERA tiles). Also note the absense of smoke-grenade-launchers on the turret front.

 

[Feanor]

I see. So is this an indication that Ukraine doesn't even have the T-80's for a parade? I mean why parade a T-64 around? Even if it is still in service. I would have thought there were enough T-72's and T-80's left from the Soviet days to equip the Ukranian army several times over.

 

[tatra]

I see. So is this an indication that Ukraine doesn't even have the T-80's for a parade? I mean why parade a T-64 around? Even if it is still in service. I would have thought there were enough T-72's and T-80's left from the Soviet days to equip the Ukranian army several times over.

In 1991 when the Soviet Union was breaking up the Soviet Army operated 4,839 different models of T-80. About 500 T-80UD tanks were built in the Malyshev plant between 1987–91. About 300 were still at the Ukrainian factory when the Soviet Union broke up, so the T-80UD is more common in Ukrainian service than Russian. 345 T-80 were originally inherited from the USSR in 1991. There were 273 in service as of 2000 and 271 as of 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80

By comparision, for the T-64: Ukraine - 2281, mostly modified
BM Bulat, T-64 modernization by the Malyshev Factory in Ukraine. 17 were inducted into the Ukrainian army in 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-64

As for the T-72: Ukraine - 1,180
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72

So, in sum, the T-64 is the most numerous tank in Ukrainian service. It makes sense to parade the T-64BM Bulat, as these probably are the cream of the T-64 crop in Ukraine.

 

[Feanor]

They're more advanced then the surviving T-80UDs?

I am familiar with the wiki article but I wouldn't consider it reliable without further backup.

 

[kato]

Well, ask the producer, should be the first address...

KMDB pages:
BM Bulat.
T-80UD.

KMDB claims the FCS is "better" than on the T-80UD - though that FCS (equipment listed at links above) is mostly identical, with the BM Bulat simply switching out some sights and such for slightly modernized versions.

 

[Feanor]

Well so technically it is better, by a small margin. I'm not surprised that they managed to get superior electronics and possibly even superior ERA (just an upgraded version of the same ERA of course ), my dilemma would come in terms of the main gun, the ammunition, armor composition, engine, etc. According to the links (thanks kato) the T-80UD has slightly better power to weight ratio and slightly lower ground pressure. The UD has far superior cruising range, by 200 km. So in terms of mobility it's ahead. There is no info on armor, or available ammunition and it's penetration capabilities which leaves us guessing in those areas. To be honest it makes little sense (to me) to parade around modernized old tanks instead of newer ones.

 

[kato]

The T-80UD aren't really all that much newer even. The T-64B was produced by KMDB until 1987, the T-80UDs Ukraine uses are from 1990/91 essentially.

my dilemma would come in terms of the main gun, the ammunition

The T-64B and the BM Bulat use the exact same main gun and ammunition as the T-80UD (or any T-72 for that matter) - a 125mm 2A46M, or the local copy KBA3.
The data given by KMDB also suggests both can fire the same gun-launched ATGM, with an equal (or identical) control system. The autoloader is also identical (6ETs11/6ETs15?).

Of the locally produced guns, KBA3, as i understand it, is simply a 2A46 variant with a trunnion for mounting in the T-64/T-80 turret. KBM1M, for example, would be the same gun with a trunnion for the T-72, and KBA3K would be for T-55 turrets.