How did the Israelis and Canadian special forces became so efficient and skillful?

[autoexit173]

Excuse my ignorance on the matter, I've been brought up believing in if you have a strong military, then your soldiers are strong too. This is a trend that goes back to ancient times with ancient Greek and Rome.

Even in modern day with Great Britain having the best navy and probably the best army in the world at that time.

It's no surprising that great warriors have came from great nations.

Spartans = Greeks being one the super powers.

Romans = Rome being a superpower.

SAS = Britain being a superpower which allows better equipment and training. And more importantly money to fund proper training such as live rounds firing drills and such.

SEAL's = America being a superpower which allows better equipment and training.

I know every modern special force unit training came from the British SAS. But since the Israelis have been conquered by other great nations, they are not a warriors race.

1. The Turkish empire killed thousands of them and banish them from Jerusalem.
2. Ancient Egyptians conquered them.
3. And lastly, the Roman and what they did to the Jewish people.

So from history, the Israelis were never known as good fighters. In fact after W.W.II, it was the British and the Americans that helped them take back Jerusalem.

Anyway, my two question are;

1) Did the British help train the Israelis?

2) How did the Canadians produce such a well rounded and efficient special force?

Truth of the matter, I'm more puzzled about the Canadians special forces being rated so highly, since majority of the world make fun of their political stance, and even Canadians comedians such as Jim Carey and Russel Peters make fun of their countries powers.

So can anyone help explain how two weak countries military [present and ancient] produce one of the three special forces units in the world?

 

[alexsa]

Excuse my ignorance on the matter, I've been brought up believing in if you have a strong military, then your soldiers are strong too. This is a trend that goes back to ancient times with ancient Greek and Rome.

Even in modern day with Great Britain having the best navy and probably the best army in the world at that time.

It's no surprising that great warriors have came from great nations.

Spartans = Greeks being one the super powers.

Romans = Rome being a superpower.

SAS = Britain being a superpower which allows better equipment and training. And more importantly money to fund proper training such as live rounds firing drills and such.

SEAL's = America being a superpower which allows better equipment and training.

I know every modern special force unit training came from the British SAS. But since the Israelis have been conquered by other great nations, they are not a warriors race.

1. The Turkish empire killed thousands of them and banish them from Jerusalem.
2. Ancient Egyptians conquered them.
3. And lastly, the Roman and what they did to the Jewish people.

So from history, the Israelis were never known as good fighters. In fact after W.W.II, it was the British and the Americans that helped them take back Jerusalem.

Anyway, my two question are;

1) Did the British help train the Israelis?

2) How did the Canadians produce such a well rounded and efficient special force?

Truth of the matter, I'm more puzzled about the Canadians special forces being rated so highly, since majority of the world make fun of their political stance, and even Canadians comedians such as Jim Carey and Russel Peters make fun of their countries powers.

So can anyone help explain how two weak countries military [present and ancient] produce one of the three special forces units in the world?

There are some pretty extraordinary claims here that are simply not supported by history. In addition using a 2000 year old situation to rate the current military capacity of a country is not a reliable metric. Using your logic the Moguls should have tdhe strongest military on earth as they were stunningly successful in their time.

All I can assume is this is a post intened to inflame others on the forum

 

[2007yellow430]

There are some pretty extraordinary claims here that are simply not supported by history. In addition using a 2000 year old situation to rate the current military capacity of a country is not a reliable metric. Using your logic the Moguls should have tdhe strongest military on earth as they were stunningly successful in their time.

All I can assume is this is a post intened to inflame others on the forum

I took it as a question. While the history is a bit far fetched, there are a question or two that I'd like answered, such as who provided the training initially to the Israelis and by what means did the Canadian get so good.

Art

 

[John Fedup]

The Canadian JTF2 likely has often trained with various US Special forces as well as with the SAS. Unlike the rest of the Canadian army, these guys actually get money to conduct intensive training.

 

[autoexit173]

Anyway, I found which doc claimed the British SAS are the special forces all modern forces modeled after.

There was two programs;

1. Weaponology Season 2 - Elite Units - SAS
2. Weaponology Season 2 - Elite Units - Army Rangers
3. SAS Survival Secrets

Also I found that it was a British Army officer named Orde Wingate that was behind/creating Israels first special military unit.

Source: Weaponology Season 2 - Elite Units - Israeli Commandos.

My point was, Israeli had helped from outside forces - training by the British and had helped from the French with weapons and tanks.

 

[bdique]

There are some pretty extraordinary claims here that are simply not supported by history. In addition using a 2000 year old situation to rate the current military capacity of a country is not a reliable metric. Using your logic the Moguls should have tdhe strongest military on earth as they were stunningly successful in their time.

All I can assume is this is a post intened to inflame others on the forum

Some facts are just incorrect, others based on terrible assumptions. I do hope the OP made this post in the spirit of wanting to learn more about how professional militaries operate.

 

[Hone C]

I know every modern special force unit training came from the British SAS. But since the Israelis have been conquered by other great nations, they are not a warriors race.

1. The Turkish empire killed thousands of them and banish them from Jerusalem.
2. Ancient Egyptians conquered them.
3. And lastly, the Roman and what they did to the Jewish people.

So from history, the Israelis were never known as good fighters. In fact after W.W.II, it was the British and the Americans that helped them take back Jerusalem.

Anyway, my two question are;

1) Did the British help train the Israelis?


Since the blokes above have had a stab at your second question permit me to attempt to answer your first.

Your starting assumption is that the Israelis are not great warriors due to their being conquered by other powers. While there are logical fallacies with this argument let me point out that when Israel is not internally divided, it tends to be the dominant regional power and has been overwhelmingly successful against it's immediate neighbours. This holds true for both ancient and modern history. A quick flick through a history of the ancient Middle East or the ever accessible Bible will confirm this.

Situated on the land bridge between Africa and Asia, the Levant has always been a target for major powers however. Mediterranean powers like Rome wishing to secure their eastern flank, powers like Macedonia needing to anchor on Levantine ports to expand East, or Eastern powers such as Persia looking to anchor their Western flank need to occupy this area. Israel has always been in danger of distant imperial powers, because they bring far too much power for a little nation to resist. Again, nothing to do with not being a 'warrior race', as Lenin once said "quantity has a quality of it's own".

After WW2 the IDF defended Jerusalem without help from the US or UK (although there were certainly volunteers from both present) against the UK equipped and led Arab Legion of Trans-Jordan. The war ended with Israel holding the (mainly) Jewish West of the city, and the Jordanians the (mainly) Arab Eastern part.

Getting along to your question (finally) the answer is a bit more complex than a simple Yes/No.
The Israelis developed an underground army, the Haganah, in spite of the resistance of the occupying British. About 30,000 Palestinian Jews did, however, receive training during the Second World War in the British Army, mainly as individual volunteers, and several thousand operated late in the war as a 'Jewish Brigade'.
A couple of hundred also trained and fought under the very unconventional Orde Wingate (later to gain fame as the Chindit commander in Burma) in the Special Night Squads, conducting irregular warfare during the Arab Revolt in the 1930's. This latter group included many early Israeli commanders.

 

[old faithful]

Seriously?
Is this even worth discussing?

 

[DavidDCM]

They, like any other efficient military unit became good through training, training, equipment and finally training.

Any discussion about "warrior cultures" belongs to the 19th century where such ideas were a thing and that is that.

 

[Todjaeger]

They, like any other efficient military unit became good through training, training, equipment and finally training.

Any discussion about "warrior cultures" belongs to the 19th century where such ideas were a thing and that is that.

Just wanted to point out that you left out actual, operational experience, which both countries have decades (or more) of.

Canada, for instance, has been involved in basically every major conflict involving the British Empire, as has many of the other Commonwealth nations. This includes conflicts which predate Canada as an independent nation.

Israel initially drew upon service experience which many had from serving in various armed forces before and during WWII, and then has fought several wars with neighbouring countries.

These facts might just not be something that immediately spring to mind when considering a particular country, or why a nation's military would be considered competent, capable, or skilled.

 

[gf0012-aust]

My eyes are bleeding from this,

Post euthenased